[scottp999]

Originally Posted by sflgator

What is Dinan Stage III? Doesn't that include the ECU Flash, Upgraded Intercooler, and Exhaust? All for mucho dinero; much more than the simple $2100 ECU Flash. If you'd like to compare apples to apples, then...

Stage III is the breaking point (piggy bank breaking) for many. The stage II tune is great and is 13.2 PSI and I think it's reasonably priced when you consider warranty (see below).

I do not think arguing tunes and dynos is productive anymore. Just go with what you like best and is affordable 13.2-15 psi seems ok so far for stock turbos. I hope you have purchased an external boost gauge, as I ran V2 at 94% blindly and was seeing 18.5 PSI regurally at WOT (not while shifting, installed a boost gauge last Sat.). Luckily I did not run it much since it was installed in Jan, and just a few times since the weather has warmed up. TQ values have gone from 94% to 88% to stay in the 15PSI range. V3 should be much better at hitting boost targets.

To the OP, sorry about your numbers, but their are too many variables to consider. If the car seems fast, and you are seeing the right boost then the tune is doing as advertised. Did you monitor boost while performing the dyno? Do you have an external boost gauge?

[XLR8MF]

Sorry for the situation you are in. Nothing is worse than having a big company give you the run around. The comments mentioned above to an extent are valid. The best one made is that Dinan does use jumbo fans that do make a difference but I am not sure if that would make a 20-24 WHP difference. Using the 15% drive train loss, you are down enough horsepower that I too would be upset, especially considering the price. Hopefully they can squeeze a little more out for you but Dinan will never quite dyno as high as the piggybacks.
Good luck.

[vegasspeed]

I paid about 2k less for the 4 Dinan items; exhaust, IC, OC and tune. It is still expensive without a doubt but our cars aren't cheap either. I really don't understand those that want a $50,000 dollar car and then complain about a 2k ECU flash from Dinan. Based on the car's price this is right in line if not better.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Is this a joke?

+1.

What's even funnier is all the people that have chimed in this thread that believe there is actually a problem.

[vegasspeed]

I think this guy is just F'n with us. He can't be serious about this.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Not trying to come across as an ass but I don't think "everyone knows" or agrees with that statement at all. There was just a thread here about a Chicago Dyno Day and the Dinan flash put down similar numbers to a V2 car (with default settings) and was higher than an AA car that presumably had an Xede. Same dyno, same day, yadda, yadda, yadda. Dinan's stage II appears to be in line with the "moderately aggressive" piggyback tunes.

Also, Dinan's tradeoff of high rpm boost for turbo longevity is well publicized and directly tied to their providing a warranty. I don't know why people continually compare it to the more aggressive tunes out there.

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by sflgator

What is Dinan Stage III? Doesn't that include the ECU Flash, Upgraded Intercooler, and Exhaust? All for mucho dinero; much more than the simple $2100 ECU Flash. If you'd like to compare apples to apples, then...

Dinan Stage I: No oil cooler required - 366 hp 379 tq unknown boost. Maybe this is where you are getting your 12.5 figure.

Dinan Stage II: Factory oil cooler required - 384 hp 42 tq 13.2 psi max. boost (sorry for the mistake)

Dinan Stage III: Dinan upgraded oil cooler and FMIC required - 398 hp 429 tq max. boost 14 psi

All figures are @ crank tested at Dinan's facilities. Also they all have Dinan's Free Flow (axle back) exhaust advertised @ 5 hp and 6 tq.

Please also note that Dinan could easily up its boost in their software but don't because of engine/turbo safety concerns and because they are providing a warranty.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by JY335i

this thread isn't to start a bunch of arguing about tunes or who's car is better or faster. It is just to inform the people and the consumer about what I have spent my money on and the product and results I received in return. I am very unsatisfied with what I got for my money and want a refund for a product that isn't what they stated it should be. They say it should be 385 to the crank and it is nowhere near that. Its 20 up off and that's alot. If it was 3 or 4 or 5 up then u would live with it but 20 is just unacceptable especially from a company that is supose to be so reputable. We will see what they have to say tomorrow and I will keep everyone updated.

I know you are upset man and I'm not trying to downplay your situation but I think you might be jumping the gun with the notion that your tune isn't putting out the proper power.

I mean, how does the car feel power wise? Is it confirmed that you indeed have the Stage II flash and not Stage I? Whatever you do, DO NOT base your judgement solely on dyno numbers. That would be a mistake. I second the idea of you checking things out with a boost guage.

[hotrod2448]

This thread is chock full of win!

OP,

Do you have baseline numbers on your car before the flash on that dyno? If you do then you MIGHT be able to make some type of comparison as to how much you gained and even then it's not a dead certain thing. Otherwise all you have is a meaningless number.

Dynos can put out numbers that are all over the place. Be happy you didn't run on a dyno dynamics. You probably would have only put down @265HP on one of those.

In a nutshell, you are being totally unrealistic expecting Dinan to refund your money because an unknown dyno gave you a number you think is too low. In comparison to the other tunes it looks right on.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

This thread is chock full of win!

OP,

Do you have baseline numbers on the car before the flash for you car? If you do then you MIGHT be able to make some type of comparison as to how much you gained. Otherwise all you have is a meaningless number.

Dynos can put out numbers that are all over the place. Be happy you didn't run on a dyno dynamics. You probably would have only put down @265HP on one of those.

In a nutshell, you are being totally unrealistic expecting Dinan to refund your money because an unknown dyno gave you a number you think is too low. In comparison to the other tunes it looks right on.

I agree with everything that you have said here.

[cmurphy335e92]

To the OP.....

How does the car feel to you???

[Spazdoc]

Or, to put it more simply....

It is the dyno.
It is the dyno.
It is the dyno.
It is the dyno.

You just stated that the other cars put down 15 to 20 more HP than the Dinan. That is expected and consistent with most of the results on this board. Only sometimes am I hearing that the Dinan is putting down more power or faster times. It is usually a minimally lower result for the Dinan.

Why? Like you stated earlier, warranty was an issue. With further reductions in the additional boost, you regain reliability and longevity. That was the trade-off with the Dinan tunes. They problems are really only having to do with new Progman updates and incompatability, which is usually resolved quite quickly.

And, as Cleaner nicely summarized, so I want to repeat it:

Dyno racing is humorous. Here is another variable.... go to 3 different dynos and you will get 3 different results.

[Winston Wolf]

I only put down 302 HP on the dyno, I think I want my money back too!! Show me some stock dynos of the car on the same dyno or close this stupid tread.

Dear Steve Dinan,

Give this guy his money back so we don't have to hear all the complaining about how your flashes suck...

Love,

The Wolf

Originally Posted by cmurphy335e92

SFLGATOR

Wow, you really hate the Dinan tune don't you! On the street they are all similar with just a tune. Although it was a much closer race for me when I raced a jb2hh on the streets. From a roll he would creep a bit at 120mph. From a dig he would be at my back bumper and not start to gain until 115 or so.

When I did pulls with a V2 car from 40-120 we were dead even all the way up to 120 or so. He has catcack which was terribly loud for some reason..

You guys are getting WAYY to caught up in dyno numbers. Bring it to the real world. How does the car feel to you and most importantly.... Does the car bring a smile to your face everytime you get in it??? I know mine does

I love the power of mine!

[HennarotM3]

Dinan does not make any express warranties that you will be able to match their dyno #s with your car. All of the figures on their site say "maximum gain" for the reasons so many others have pointed out.

Unless you can show a defect with the product, IMO you have no actual right to a refund. The only language I see that might convey an express warranty is:

The Dinan Performance Engine Software safely increases turbo-boost pressure from the stock 8.8 to 13.0 psi, along with properly retuned fuel mixtures, ignition timing and full map rescaling.

I suppose if you could show that the reflash isn't making the proper boost, you might have something there. But a few dyno runs unfortunately doesn't entitle you to anything.

[StarrDlux]

the motor isn't going to make 13.0 psi all year long. when the mass air flow changes the ecu's alter the boost a little usually more in the summer and less in the winter to stabilize the power output. of course dinan could hack that too; but if you run your fuel pump (HPFP) too hard you will not get enough fuel and well we know that is not good stuff.

Ice road truckers (bleck) would certainly not get 13psi at -40F (or -40C ) since the mass air flow would be much more dense.

i'm guessing the ecu is also smart enough to trim boost using other factors as well. ME Motronic i've seen go both ways (reduction of boost) or severe timing retard depending on whose running it.

I still believe there is some relationship with ME-Motronic and DME. I'd love to see the ecu boards up close to see what asic's they are using. It would not suprise me if it is just a custom RTOS using a motronic licensed board.

VW did this back in the late 80's early 90's for their first digital efi. In south america they ran their "derivative" until '99.

If there wasn't a CR167 (or like) cpu in the DME80 or DME81 i would be very suprised.

Don't you find it odd that bmw uses bosch motronic in some current gen and DME in others? Perhaps D is a prefix to ME-motronic

someone pop open an ecu and take some pics would be interested to see how much rom they have if its more than one AM29F800 or larger flash rom.

[vase330]

So my dyno screamed STOCK! and I was fed crap about fans, American cars etc. Well it turns out the tune was not working. Based on that alone, I hate it when people jump to conclusions about Dynos.
What we know is

1.) Dinan is lower than other tunes. - other cars did put down more.
2.) The Dinan numbers include free flow exhaust. Its worth 6hp\5tq. Does OP have that?
3.) Other factors in OP's car? Do yopu have same exact other mods as the others?
4.) So you numnbers are 14hp off by most estimates on here? Maybe its the small fans? I don't doubt it plays a bit of a part. You are likely getting what you bought based on these... We all wish it gave more. YES ME included.

Do what I did, get a boost gauge and see if the boost numbers match. I think its a better way to verify these things. I can't wait to get it on there and see what I got.

[Crazy Bimmer]

I dont think i EVER seen a tune that matched the number of what the tuner claims.

[HennarotM3]

It would also just be bad business practices for tuners to offer up refunds when customers couldn't replicate the tuners' dyno estimates.

How would they know the dynos are done in good faith?
How would they know that the dynos are done in similar conditions to their estimates?
How could they control for other modifications on the car?

A refund policy like that is an invitation for fraud, especially on an ECU flash where there's no physical product to return.

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by cmurphy335e92

To the OP.....

How does the car feel to you???

It must not be too bad because I believe this is the same poster who boasted about taking down an M3, with his Mom!

[StarrDlux]

with the AT6 Stage 2 fiasco i was offered a refund or to wait. after my anger subsided; the greed for more boost came back. i was about 1 day from getting my money back though honestly. My concern was the fact the dinan flash was loaded thus warranty voiding if you get your money back you have no warranty from anyone.

that is what made me wait. the damage was done already.

[HennarotM3]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

with the AT6 Stage 2 fiasco i was offered a refund or to wait. after my anger subsided; the greed for more boost came back. i was about 1 day from getting my money back though honestly. My concern was the fact the dinan flash was loaded thus warranty voiding if you get your money back you have no warranty from anyone.

that is what made me wait. the damage was done already.

Why would reflashing back to stock constitute a waiver of claims against Dinan for the period that you had your flash installed? If a problem appears later that even a temporary use of the flash caused, I don't see why you wouldn't be covered.