[S4to335]

Yeah..I am doing BMW club at Thunderhill (Aug 9-10), Audi Club at Infineon (Oct 3-4)Hooked on Driving at Thunderhill (Nov ??). Oh..and Hooked on Driving has a Laguna date on Dec 4th...what a way to close out the year.

[e92phreak]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Yeah..I am doing BMW club at Thunderhill (Aug 9-10), Audi Club at Infineon (Oct 3-4)Hooked on Driving at Thunderhill (Nov ??). Oh..and Hooked on Driving has a Laguna date on Dec 4th...what a way to close out the year.

Dec 4???

Nice and cool!


Hey S, how are you doing at your new job? Things are okay on my end... for now.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by e92phreak

Dec 4???

Nice and cool!


Hey S, how are you doing at your new job? Things are okay on my end... for now.

You still there? New job is very very busy. I am responsible for all of electronic banking here..internet and now for some reason ATM's and Debit Cards, both retail and business.

[FourPtDrift]

And E36 M3s with slicks and E60M5s... and 911 4S'...

... until we opened up for full track passing...

And on the issue of "weight." Obviously the E36 M3 weighs less, right? Ok... so check out the pitch of the M3 that I passed... and compare it to the pitch of my car. I'm running over a rumble and I have less pitch than the two vehicles behind me that were on level tarmac...

When your primary track competition is the 911 variety (including GT3s), I'd say a properly setup 335i makes for a great track car...

-Daniel

[03SG///M3]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

And E36 M3s with slicks and E60M5s... and 911 4S'...

... until we opened up for full track passing...

And on the issue of "weight." Obviously the E36 M3 weighs less, right? Ok... so check out the pitch of the M3 that I passed... and compare it to the pitch of my car. I'm running over a rumble and I have less pitch than the two vehicles behind me that were on level tarmac...

When you're primary track competition is the 911 variety (including GT3s), I'd say a properly setup 335i makes for a great track car...

-Daniel

Your 335 does look planted...do you have camber plates? Nice pictures.

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by 03SG///M3

Your 335 does look planted...do you have camber plates? Nice pictures.

Thanks for the compliments. No camber plats on the car... none needed. Just what you see in my sig line... and if properly setup, nothing else is needed.

Getting the car "planted" as you put it is much more about technique than it is product.

-Daniel

[03SG///M3]

While I agree its about technique and not product in regards to how the car will handle corners although I wasn't referring to having camber plates being the cause of the car corning well. I was just curious if you had them and how much camber you run... with my E46 M3, I like to run a lot of negative camber - 3.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear. I am considering an E92 in which i will most likely get camber plates when I get coilovers. I like the modifications you've done especially the LSD

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by 03SG///M3

While I agree its about technique and not product in regards to how the car will handle corners although I wasn't referring to having camber plates being the cause of the car corning well.

Got it.

I was just curious if you had them and how much camber you run... with my E46 M3, I like to run a lot of negative camber - 3.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear.

This is not necessarily a good thing. As you begin to dial in excessive negative camber, you remove contact patch from the outside corner of the car while turning. Yes, its true, you will plant the inside corner with a larger contact patch, but if you dial out too much from the outside corner of the car, you will not be able effectively control vehicle rotation and the car WILL become unmaginable when pushed to the limit.

I am considering an E92 in which i will most likely get camber plates when I get coilovers. I like the modifications you've done especially the LSD

Thank you, but i think you are mistaken. I do not have an LSD at this point.

-Daniel

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Got it.



This is not necessarily a good thing. As you begin to dial in excessive negative camber, you remove contact patch from the outside corner of the car while turning. Yes, its true, you will plant the inside corner with a larger contact patch, but if you dial out too much from the outside corner of the car, you will not be able effectively control vehicle rotation and the car WILL become unmaginable when pushed to the limit.



Thank you, but i think you are mistaken. I do not have an LSD at this point.

-Daniel

leftcoastman has the LSD. I bought one..but never installed it since I had the welded version of my OEM diff.

[03SG///M3]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Got it.



This is not necessarily a good thing. As you begin to dial in excessive negative camber, you remove contact patch from the outside corner of the car while turning. Yes, its true, you will plant the inside corner with a larger contact patch, but if you dial out too much from the outside corner of the car, you will not be able effectively control vehicle rotation and the car WILL become unmaginable when pushed to the limit.



Thank you, but i think you are mistaken. I do not have an LSD at this point.

-Daniel

Oh I'm sorry I must have been looking at a different signature. You do have really nice mods too. Do you know how much camber you are able to get without camber plates with your coilovers? Do you experience heating issues? Thanks

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by 03SG///M3

Oh I'm sorry I must have been looking at a different signature. You do have really nice mods too. Do you know how much camber you are able to get without camber plates with your coilovers? Do you experience heating issues? Thanks

1.5 degrees at the front, 2.5 degrees at the rear.

After Procede... heating issues went away.

-Daniel

[jeho]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Thanks for the compliments. No camber plats on the car... none needed. Just what you see in my sig line... and if properly setup, nothing else is needed.

Getting the car "planted" as you put it is much more about technique than it is product.

-Daniel

Does the e90 handle much much better than e92 on the track??

Hey Daniel, few questions..

1. So right now you have more camber in the rear (assusming since you dont run camber plates) & with staggered setup, doesnt it understeer a lot?

2. Coil setup...
Are you running the rebound/compression stiffer in the front or the rears?

3. HR SWAYS..
Are you running both the front and rear sway?

I have staggered setup on e92 and no camber plates on kw v2 and I feel the car understeers and rolls a big amount...
Im not sure if I should get the vorshlag camber plates first or the HR SWAYS first? get both front and rear ?

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by jho86

1. So right now you have more camber in the rear & with staggered setup,

Yes.

doesnt it understeer a lot?

Car is completely steerable by throttle. Very neutral and very well balanced/behaved. Solution is the first part of the suspension that you didn't mention. The tires. RE-01R at 245/35R19 front and 275/30R19 rear is the real solution. Great contact patch, massive sidewall with 5 ply steel structure.

2. Coil setup...
Are you running the rebound/compression stiffer in the front or the rears?

90%, all four corners.

3. HR SWAYS..
Are you running both the front and rear sway?

Yes.

I have staggered setup on e92 and no camber plates on kw v2 and I feel the car understeers and rolls a big amount...

Your car is not set correctly. Ask member billspreston, who also had the same config as you and the same problem as your describing what happened after I had my shop change his setup and replace his tires with RE-01R's. See what he says.

[Quotes]Im not sure if I should get the vorshlag camber plates first or the HR SWAYS first? get both front and rear ?[/QUOTE]

If your car goes on the street... NO CAMBER PLATES. Camber plates and road crown for a street car are a DANGEROUS combination. Period.

Get the sways, front and back, and get the RE-01R tires. You can't possibly expect to get suspension done correctly if you don't have the right tires.

-Daniel

[jeho]

^^ I've only tested on OEM RFTS LOL...

I've got a set of Dunlop Direzza Z1 STAR SPEC (which are very close to re01r, if not, better as many ppl coming from re01r are now using these Z1)
im going to be trying in 3 weeks.

And yes I know tires will play the biggest role.

i'll go get the front and rear HR sways...

Btw, whats the reason u chose HR sways over Hotchkis/UUC?

[satakal]

FourPoint, would you please elaborate more on camber plates?

thanks.
________
The View Condo Pattaya

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by satakal

FourPoint, would you please elaborate more on camber plates?

thanks.

Camber plates are great for controlling and maximizing contact patch to satisfy the specific needs of specific tracks when camber adjustment on a car is limited without them.

HOWEVER, this having been said, excessive negative camber on a road car can result in an unsafe configuration whereas the inside corner of the car (under corner load) could be negatively affected by road crown.

Race tracks along with autocross asphalt tarmacs have rather flat surfaces. Sure you'll come to elevation changes and corners that are on-camber and off-camber, but because these are tracks and not public access/service roads, they lack road crown. Left hand turns on public roads (under load) result in exterior corner contact patch separation of the inside tires. Road crown causes this separation to be exacerbated. This is why sweeping left handers over road crown are easier to induce throttle oversteer than when on right hand turns. If you add in excessive negative camber this will radically accelerate this exterior edge separation effect and produce a car that simply is not safe on the street.

It is for this reason that I hesitate to recommend to use of camber plates on cars that may be driven on various public roads - even if the driver is reasonably experienced.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by jho86

^^ I've only tested on OEM RFTS LOL...

I've got a set of Dunlop Direzza Z1 STAR SPEC (which are very close to re01r, if not, better as many ppl coming from re01r are now using these Z1)
im going to be trying in 3 weeks.

The Direzza Z1 StarSpec tires are GREAT product. Absolutely. But they come with some "catches" that I have problems with.

1.) The are not true R compound tires, but for their use to be truely effective, they expect to be treated as such - and I don't think that's right. I think if you get a high-end "near R compound tire" for street/track use, it should be consistent throughout the tread range of the tire. That is exactly how the RE-01R performs. The Direzza product comes into its own when the tread is within a specific depth and as such it benefits greatly from shaving. This is not new for road tires. BFG TKD product has been like this for years. I suppose for some, this may be acceptable - it is not for me.

2.) The Direzza lacks the complex layer silica of the RE-01R (Bridgestone patent) and as such, the more end of heat cycling the tire through use and as the treat wears down... torwards the end of its life, its performance falls off. This does not happen with the RE-01R.

3.) Simple issue - sizes. I have 380mm (15") rotors. I must run with 19 rims. I have opted for the Morr Alloys VS7's to keep weight down and still accommodate my brakes. The Direzza is not available in a 19 for my car - even for whim, I couldn't get them.

-Daniel

And yes I know tires will play the biggest role.

i'll go get the front and rear HR sways...

Btw, whats the reason u chose HR sways over Hotchkis/UUC?[/QUOTE]

[leftcoastman]

Fourpt - I'm surprised you like the antisways without an LSD.

When I had the sways on, I got sooo much wheelspin on corner exit unless I was super-ginger on the throttle. I just watched people power away from me on corner exit since any application of throttle on my part would just result in inside tire spin. Now I have Quaife, but I still didn't like the way the sways made the car felt, so I removed them.

Regarding the plates - adjustable camber plates do not have that problem. I can run nearly zero camber on street and within 10 minutes, set it to -3.5 for track use.

You clearly make your setup work for you, but I can't understand how you have MORE neg in back and MORE tire in back and still have a neutral car.

I'm running a square setup, -3.5 in front, -2 in back and I'm perfectly neutral. I've run RE01R, Victoracers and the NT-01. Balance didn't change much since any tire brand changes were done to all four corners.

I guess different strokes for different styles.

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Fourpt - I'm surprised you like the antisways without an LSD.

Let's not confuse "like" with "making it work." Don't get me wrong, I WANT, VERY much an LSD. It just isn't happening now.

When I had the sways on, I got sooo much wheelspin on corner exit unless I was super-ginger on the throttle. I just watched people power away from me on corner exit since any application of throttle on my part would just result in inside tire spin. Now I have Quaife, but I still didn't like the way the sways made the car felt, so I removed them.

I don't know. Maybe your suspension was a bit too soft? What do you have at your corners?

Regarding the plates - adjustable camber plates do not have that problem. I can run nearly zero camber on street and within 10 minutes, set it to -3.5 for track use.

And so, obviously, this makes the right solution for YOU because you understand the difference and you also are cognizant that you must make the change.

You clearly make your setup work for you, but I can't understand how you have MORE neg in back and MORE tire in back and still have a neutral car.

As was pointed out earlier, the expectation was that my car would understeer, between the KW v3 setup and the RE-01R's, the car turns around very nicely.

I'm running a square setup, -3.5 in front, -2 in back and I'm perfectly neutral. I've run RE01R, Victoracers and the NT-01. Balance didn't change much since any tire brand changes were done to all four corners.

Understood. What size rims? The performance characteristics of each tire changes as its aspect ratio changes. So how one tire works for you at one size is NOT how it will work for the next guy at a different size.

I guess different strokes for different styles.

Something like that...

-Daniel

[Vudoo4u2]

I was going to be adding konifsd/eibach prokit to my car this week and was wondering if either of you had any insight as to what other items I might need to add to my daily driver to make it occasionally trackable?

I will see winter with the car as well, so I'm trying not to go too extreme...Ive ordered morr vs8's and vredestein sessantas to go with it in the 235/265 variety

thanks in advance!

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by Robmaster

go with a E46 M3. it's lighter and more sportcar than the 335i.

LOL
go with a E36 M3. it's lighter and more sportcar than the e46!

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by Vudoo4u2

I was going to be adding konifsd/eibach prokit to my car this week and was wondering if either of you had any insight as to what other items I might need to add to my daily driver to make it occasionally trackable?

I will see winter with the car as well, so I'm trying not to go too extreme...Ive ordered morr vs8's and vredestein sessantas to go with it in the 235/265 variety

thanks in advance!

Let me get this straight... you're concerned about installing a performance suspension kit... and you're going with tire company that reference a design firm as the source behind their tread pattern? What the...???

So long as not getting a full contact patch with a truly and solely performance oriented tire is not part of the deal... why do you care what suspension components you put on the car... and how they perform?

Rethink the priorities... and then start again.

-Daniel