[ASAP]

I am now in a cycle for work where I fly almost every week or 2... I can confidently state that flying is so seriously fucked at this point that I think I would prefer to walk to most places. People, airlines and overcrowding have ruined what was once a great thing. Every airline is incredibly ratchet, the service sucks on all of them and they are all looking to maximize profit margin and basically fuck you in one way or another... all flights are overbooked and the passengers literally cant stand each other on most flights. One time it will be a fat ass sitting next to you, another time a baby screaming and hitting you on the back of the head whilst the ass wipe disconnected parents could care less. On my last flight i literally had a baby pulling on my hair from behind standing on the parents lap... I told her to watch her baby and she literally had the fucking nerve to ask if her baby is bothering me? Jesus christ, I hate flying these days... and I am a recreational pilot lol.

[RickFLM4]

Really it's not much different than Amazon, Walmart and other big box retailers wiping out retailers who had great service by undercutting prices. As much as I hate it, it is market driven. Most people want / need cheap and just suck it up for a few hours. Those of us who can't stand it avoid flying or cough up extra to get semi reasonable seating.

[M_Six]

It seems to me that AA just renamed their sections. The Business Class section at the front of the plane had those cubicle type seats that used to be First Class. And like I said, our seats were Business Class level of just a couple years ago. It's like AA scaled down a few services in both classes, cut prices a bit for both, and renamed them.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Really it's not much different than Amazon, Walmart and other big box retailers wiping out retailers who had great service by undercutting prices. As much as I hate it, it is market driven. Most people want / need cheap and just suck it up for a few hours. Those of us who can't stand it avoid flying or cough up extra to get semi reasonable seating.

I get what you are saying but we are approaching indian city train levels or something that transports bush in the congo...

[eluded]

Every year I fly Ryan airlines i think the experience gets better and better.

Sad but true. Nothing has changed at Ryan but all the other airlines are changing and it's not for the better.

[NEfan508]

Americans airlines new seat class 2020

[dreamingat30fps]

It's like verizon and its 20 different "unlimited plans". So "premium" economy is the regular economy we use to have back in the day... but for more $$. Mkay thaaaaaanks!

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

It's like verizon and its 20 different "unlimited plans". So "premium" economy is the regular economy we use to have back in the day... but for more $$. Mkay thaaaaaanks!

Not really. I've been flying since the mid-70's, before deregulation. Economy has gotten tighter and nastier for sure, but it was never as comfy as the Premium Economy seats we just had.

Still, when I lived in Germany in the early 80's, I could fly r/t to Boston for $500 or so. And the whole airport experience was way better.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Not really. I've been flying since the mid-70's, before deregulation. Economy has gotten tighter and nastier for sure, but it was never as comfy as the Premium Economy seats we just had.

Still, when I lived in Germany in the early 80's, I could fly r/t to Boston for $500 or so. And the whole airport experience was way better.

I dunno I haven’t been on this economy plus, but every time I’m forced to fly somewhere I feel it’s worse than the time before. Was actually doing a tour of the Boeing factory couple days ago and they were showing the “new” 787 and talking about the space and lighting etc. I was on one like 2 or 3 years ago going to Spain. Can’t say I was able to notice any of these features from my straitjacket!

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I dunno I haven’t been on this economy plus, but every time I’m forced to fly somewhere I feel it’s worse than the time before. Was actually doing a tour of the Boeing factory couple days ago and they were showing the “new” 787 and talking about the space and lighting etc. I was on one like 2 or 3 years ago going to Spain. Can’t say I was able to notice any of these features from my straitjacket!

I hear ya. I have to go to Orlando a couple of times a year to visit family and the only sensible way there for me is to fly out of Indy, which means Southwest. They have this stupid cattle call boarding and the same crappy seats throughout the entire plane. I usually pay the extra few bucks to get a decent boarding number so at least I can grab an aisle seat and have some room to stretch my legs. Add in cheap wifi and a few drinks and the flight is just about bearable.

[Angry Ketchup]

Originally Posted by M_Six

It seems to me that AA just renamed their sections. The Business Class section at the front of the plane had those cubicle type seats that used to be First Class. And like I said, our seats were Business Class level of just a couple years ago. It's like AA scaled down a few services in both classes, cut prices a bit for both, and renamed them.

No. That's only a small piece of it - they aren't simply renaming the service levels. You didn't fly Biz because there was no First. Trust me. If you knew the difference, you'd KNOW the difference.

Where they can't sell First and Biz, they are revising configs. Cattle-Plus is a nice trick and it also allows airlines to reuse some vintage economy bulkhead seats with just a refurbish and no new certification. Also, most just dilute the service staff of an existing cabin; you'll seldom find dedicated service for Cattle-Plus.

There is real First Class still... just not on shitliners like AA. BA has started to suck of late years as well, but at least one can get true First Class on the LHR - SAN 773s and other aircraft on Asian routes with BA. We've been stuck with BA for awhile due to personal circumstances though. Their 'herringbone' Biz Class layout is a joke though. I loathe crawling over or being crawled over. At least the F Class suites are truly private

Emirates, Etihad, Singapore, etc... they still have true First, Biz, Cattle Plus, and Cattle. Sadly though, even many of their new configs are getting denser or the hard product is becoming "cheaper". Soft product is luckily still top notch... Love me a "Singapore Girl"! Timeless class & beauty... She is probably trained in marital arts and can drag a guy my size out of the burning crashed aircraft.
Meanwhile on AA or UA.... You'll be dragging the grandma stewardess out yourself if you're lucky!

ymmv... my first rodeo it is not.

[M_Six]

I've only flown "First Class" a couple times on short flights, like ORD to LGA. Once on AA and once on United. Neither seemed much of a step up from the "Cattle Plus" as you call it. They offered drinks and gave you warm nuts while the other cattle loaded, but otherwise it was meh for service. But as you say, maybe the run of the mill US airlines just don't do full blown First Class any more. Nonetheless, this past flight was a decent improvement over Main Cabin Extra, which is what we've flown to LHR in the past. And it was less than half the price of Business, which didn't seem to me to be enough of an upgrade to justify that huge jump in cost.

[kscarrol]

Flying Southwest out to the Bay Area on Wednesday! Looking forward to it... Thank God for booze and noise canceling headphones. I assume this is not the First Class Angry Ketchup is talking about!

[M_Six]

Southwest is true cattle hauling. Just a big bus in the sky.