[Couch]

I bet the Acura boards are already linked here thinking we're crying.

[simp0man]

Wannabe better.

[ians]

Originally Posted by Couch

I bet the Acura boards are already linked here thinking we're crying.

Not really, they just have the same respond... who cares about its performance! it is hell ugly! But what they want is to apply all the SH-AWD, new MT tranny and a more powerful motor on the TSX. At least you can get rid of that horrible grill by the JDM grill(or mugen grill) on the TSX.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by slick101

3rd Place: "The BMW 335i maintains its composure even when driven extremely hard, yet it feels surprisingly slow and out of place compared to the TL and S4." get the f#@# outta here......

You forgot to post the rest of it

"Of course, putting power down with just the rear wheels means the front wheels almost needed to be straight before the throttle could go all the way to the floor."

On a tight course like that test course, this is a very valid finding. I spent a lot of time on tight back roads in my old WRX driving with a friend who has a chipped 335. On a course/road with few straights the monster straight line power of the 335 can't offset the AWD ability to use full throttle well before the apex.

The cars had similar power, the 335 is one wheel drive, the TL can vector torque front/rear and left/right (ie it has an AWESOME awd system), and the course was tight. I find the outcome very believable

[oct1285]

everybody needs to stop being such a fanboi

[BK]

Originally Posted by Nick Nazareno

The cars had similar power, the 335 is one wheel drive, the TL can vector torque front/rear and left/right (ie it has an AWESOME awd system), and the course was tight. I find the outcome very believable

Hard to believe that somewhere on an Acura forum in the future, someone will be complaining how they were beat by a 335i at a stoplight, and the responses will be: "sure, that Bimmer beat you on a straight, but he'd never keep up with you in the twisties." It's like Bizarro-world.

[Bimmer007]

the car isn't that ugly and it kind of even makes all the other cars look a little dated






acura's are great cars, BMW's are great cars

it just comes down to personal preference thats why everyone doesn't drive the same car

[TheAcAvenger]

So, I just went by the old Acura dealership to take a look (the first ones came in this past week) and it really doesn't look as bad in person. It's a lot better than the way they butchered the RL. It just looks different. Really bold. Really un-acura-like. I'd venture to say that its ahead of its time. But its 1000x better than in pictures, so the Acura faithful should go check it out.

[uhaulball]

Originally Posted by Couch

I bet the Acura boards are already linked here thinking we're crying.

actually im pretty sure theyre figuring out ways to retrofit the old front bumper. and crying about how its not possible and how fugly the new face is.

that huge chrome billboard on the front is hideous no matter how u spin it...

[louz4]

It has to be fast so people will have a hard time seeing its ugly face.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

1) the 335i never put the S5 to shame around a track (there's a thread about this, they're always within a half second of each other).

2) An S4 isn't going to be slower than an S5. They're practically the same, and it wouldn't surprise me if the S4 was slightly lighter.

3) There's a thread covering that whole argument

4) I'd say invalid stuff too if I just read that statement, so we'll let it slide. Edmunds needs to take off the acura goggles.

Just wanted to make a correction here.
The S4 WILL be slower than the S5

The 2008 S4 has 10 less hp, is on the old chassis whereas the S5 is on the new one that is better balance, better stiffness and has the updated Quattro system as well.
The 2008 S5 is also lighter.

The S5 is a decent amount quicker than the 2008 S4


As for the Edmunds test.
Yes, Edmunds should NOT have published this.
The test took place AT Honda's OWN test facility (so clearly the Acura was set up to run best at that track) and the other cars were "supplied and prepped" by Acura's R&D
Hmmm, wonder how the other car manufacturers would feel about that.

A completely and utterly biased and irrelavant test.
But on a side note, this test again shows that having AWD doesn't help in performance as the 335i beat the 335xi on a tight course where IF AWD was going to help it would be on a tight course.

Edmunds should pull that "test" and call it as it was, as unfair and biased as you could possibly get in a so called test.

[ManMachine]

There are tests released by C/D, R/T, Motortrend, etc. also, and the opinions are pretty consistent. This Acura is a great car (in terms of being fast around the track), ugly or not, and why the surprise? Previous TL-S beat G35 and IS350 around the track too. AWD can be very fast, as we all know (Mitsu, Subaru can tell you). Whether it's fun to drive is a different matter.

I scratch my head about the performance of the 335i. As some of you said, the software issue must have something to do with it.

If Acura changes the TL styling somewhat, it suddenly makes the car a very good product (if you add the value and the reliability of Acura).

[ManMachine]

More details here on TOV:

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=2

[mistermojorizin]

i love honda engineering, but until they put a v8 or v6tt in that TL, its just gonna feel slow, like my 298hp g35 did, and have no modding potential.

[Driver72]

I find it interesting too that Acura seemed to supply 2 Acura TL's but only 1 of each of the other cars.
Seems that way the TL's had the advantage of extra cool down time as they rotated the Acura's between each heat.

Acura/Honda does make one of the best manual transmissions in the business however.
Therefore I don't doubt the TL was fun to drive just based on that alone.
When I drove the TSX when it came out several years ago, though it felt slow, it's shifter (straight out of the S2000 I believe) felt awesome and made it feel faster than it was and fun to drive.

All I have to say is, I'm glad I don't have a DMEv81 335i
Seems all the "testers" now complain of the lag issue not only in the throttle but in the boost too.
With literally DOZENS and DOZENS of international reviews of the 2007/2007.5 335i NOBODY ever complained about turbo lag or excessive throttle lag. But rather praised the car and engine for it's lack of lag and small V8 feel.

What's the deal with Acura anyway.
They make the TSX bigger, but less powerful.
They make the TL bigger but more powerful.

Shouldn't the little TSX be the car they should of made the sporty one of the two.
I just don't see anybody buying the TL to take to a track of ANY kind.
And very few of the owners will probably ever engage in a nice spirited canyon run either.

And sorry, the TL doesn't look as good as the outgoing model either.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by Driver72

But on a side note, this test again shows that having AWD doesn't help in performance as the 335i beat the 335xi on a tight course where IF AWD was going to help it would be on a tight course.

Edmunds should pull that "test" and call it as it was, as unfair and biased as you could possibly get in a so called test.

Actually this was a test done by Honda. If you read more about the test, the honda pro driver actually pulled the second fastest lap time in the XI. Several lap series were recored by different drivers from different magazines. Not all results were the same with the exception that the Acura finished first.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Actually this was a test done by Honda. If you read more about the test, the honda pro driver actually pulled the second fastest lap time in the XI. Several lap series were recored by different drivers from different magazines. Not all results were the same with the exception that the Acura finished first.

The response you quoted from me came from a post BEFORE the post with the link to the other automotive results.
And yes, the Acura driver did get his second best time in the xi, but he probably spent many, many hours testing the AWD Acura so he was most familiar with AWD.
And since Acura doesn't make RWD cars, he obviously has not spent a lot of time in RWD cars recently.
So it's easily explainable why he got a better time in the xi.
That's what he's familiar with.
RWD probably scared him a bit.
But I'm sure, as is almost always the case, pro drivers familiar with and used to driving both AWD and RWD will get the best times with the lighter, more nimble, faster RWD only car.

Oh, and you do know Honda owns Acura right?

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by Driver72

The response you quoted came from a post BEFORE the link to the other automotive results was posted.
And yes, the Acura driver did get his second best time in the xi, but he probably spent many, many hours testing the AWD Acura so he was most familiar with AWD.
And since Acura doesn't make RWD cars, he obviously has not spent a lot of time in RWD cars recently.
So it's easily explainable why he got a better time in the xi.
That's what he's familiar with.
RWD probably scared him a bit.
But I'm sure, as is almost always the case, pro drivers familiar with and used to driving both AWD and RWD will get the best times with the lighter, more nimble, faster RWD only car.

Oh, and you do know Honda owns Acura right?

Ah yes I know Honda owns acura. I've owned an MDX for the past 6 years.

Again your comments regarding the deficiences of AWD are baseless. I was joking with my response because as you said, this was not a fair comparison. However, for some reason it is a fair comparison that somehow prooves RWD is faster than AWD even when the two fastest cars around the track by the pro driver were both AWD.

You can't even fairly compare an XI to an i to determine there performance differences unless they have the exact same suspensions. The 335xi even in sport package does not get the sport suspension.

If he is one of ACURA's pro drivers, you can be guarenteed he is very familiar with rear wheel drive. Honda does have a little experience with that unless you have never seen F1 or information on the current prototype 2010 NSX. I'm sure if he is one of their "pro" drivers, he gets plenty of opportunity in RWD.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that AWD is in fact faster or that RWD will be faster. I'm just not as definitive as all the AWD haters saying no matter what AWD is slower. It has yet to be ACURAtely proven, and in this test no matter what the arguement every driver from all the magazines invited and the pro driver turned the fastest lap times in an AWD car.

[louz4]

UGLY

[hks786]

Originally Posted by louz4

FUGLY

corrected

[louz4]

Originally Posted by hks786

corrected

AGREED

[Greeney]

The more I look at it the more of a natural evolution it looks. Modern shape.