[mecheng77]

What does popular mean? Because they are affordable and ppl are so cheap to save a couple of thousand compared to a Honda or Toyota with proven long term reliability?
Initial quality is way over thought. I would feel embarrassed by a Kia badge, I'd rather have an old European or Japanese car if money were tight, the Korean cars copy everything

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

What does popular mean? Because they are affordable and ppl are so cheap to save a couple of thousand compared to a Honda or Toyota with proven long term reliability?
Initial quality is way over thought. I would feel embarrassed by a Kia badge, I'd rather have an old European or Japanese car if money were tight, the Korean cars copy everything

What do you mean by long term reliability? My 2005 Kia Sorento made it 153K miles and 13 Years of salty Michigan winters before I gave up on it. That car has been off-roaded in the dunes and in the mud. I drove it from Montana to Maine. From South Dakota to South Carolina. And it was rusty, but still running when I sold it. I didn't pay for any repairs outside of warranty except for leaky exhaust and AC compressor. How much more long time reliability can you ask for in Northeast winters? I'd argue not many cars can do better.

I replaced it with an '18 Santa Fe. It's still sitting in my garage back in the States. And the best thing is to see how popular Hyundai/Kia is in Germany. I see many of them daily. Germans are utilitarian. They get it too.

Apropos quality, if Japanese/German cars are that much better, why can't they offer a warranty as long as the Hyundai/Kia? .............. Or conversely, if Kia's are sub-par in quality, how can they be financially viable with longest warranty in the marker? .................... Food for thought.

I know badge snobbery exists. I just choose to look past it.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Bang for the buck?

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

What do you mean by long term reliability? My 2005 Kia Sorento made it 153K miles and 13 Years of salty Michigan winters before I gave up on it. That car has been off-roaded in the dunes and in the mud. I drove it from Montana to Maine. From South Dakota to South Carolina. And it was rusty, but still running when I sold it. I didn't pay for any repairs outside of warranty except for leaky exhaust and AC compressor. How much more long time reliability can you ask for in Northeast winters? I'd argue not many cars can do better.

I replaced it with an '18 Santa Fe. It's still sitting in my garage back in the States. And the best thing is to see how popular Hyundai/Kia is in Germany. I see many of them daily. Germans are utilitarian. They get it too.

Apropos quality, if Japanese/German cars are that much better, why can't they offer a warranty as long as the Hyundai/Kia? .............. Or conversely, if Kia's are sub-par in quality, how can they be financially viable with longest warranty in the marker? .................... Food for thought.

I know badge snobbery exists. I just choose to look past it.

My point exactly it was full of rust. I've had my share of cars that rust and it's impossible... absolutely impossible to get rid of. Once I went to Volvo and BMW I've never had rust problems both underneath the car and the body.

My 2 friends Hyundai's engine blew and they barely had any mileage. I'll deal with leaky BMW gaskets and bad pcv on my Volvo any day over that

[syd34]

I truly admire Kia/Hyundai for putting out excellent products in recent years compared to the last couple of decades. They definitely offer an excellent warranty and value.

But a major point for me when purchasing (not leasing) a car to keep for several years is resale value and how easy it is to sell. A Toyota or Honda that is 6 or 7 years old can be sold in a day. If you trade in your Honda/Toyota, you will easily get a couple of thousand dollars more for your trade compared to a Kia/Hyundai or even a Mazda, minimizing any savings on the front end.

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

My 2 friends Hyundai's engine blew and they barely had any mileage. I'll deal with leaky BMW gaskets and bad pcv on my Volvo any day over that

Engines can and do go in any car. IIRC, the 1.5t Honda engines had some significant issues at least early on, for example. And BMW certainly has a history of building engines that have fatal flaws which can and do cause catastrophic engine failure.

All of this comes down to risk---the likelihood of catastrophic failure. Perhaps you're soured because of the two people you know, but if I'm going for durability and hassle free experience I'm going Kia/Hyundai before BMW.

[See5]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

What does popular mean? Because they are affordable and ppl are so cheap to save a couple of thousand compared to a Honda or Toyota with proven long term reliability?
Initial quality is way over thought. I would feel embarrassed by a Kia badge, I'd rather have an old European or Japanese car if money were tight, the Korean cars copy everything

That might say something more about you than the car.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by See5

That might say something more about you than the car.

Yes it says I'm an auto enthusiast and don't view them as appliances like my fridge where I just want something reliable that keeps my food cold

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Yes it says I'm an auto enthusiast and don't view them as appliances like my fridge where I just want something reliable that keeps my food cold

I would be more embarrassed driving a 2GC than a Stinger...

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Yes it says I'm an auto enthusiast and don't view them as appliances like my fridge where I just want something reliable that keeps my food cold

You're an enthusiast and bought a 2007 328i? Alright.

My guess as to why Kia is popular is the same reason Little Csesars sells a shit ton of $5 pizzas. It isn't because they are the tastiest of the pizza pie. It's because they are $5 and not everyone makes 6 figures.

[See5]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Yes it says I'm an auto enthusiast and don't view them as appliances like my fridge where I just want something reliable that keeps my food cold

Or it says that you drive a 13 year old BMW because you like cheap unreliable German sedans and can't afford any better.

No need to be elitist on here.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by syd34

I truly admire Kia/Hyundai for putting out excellent products in recent years compared to the last couple of decades. They definitely offer an excellent warranty and value.

But a major point for me when purchasing (not leasing) a car to keep for several years is resale value and how easy it is to sell. A Toyota or Honda that is 6 or 7 years old can be sold in a day. If you trade in your Honda/Toyota, you will easily get a couple of thousand dollars more for your trade compared to a Kia/Hyundai or even a Mazda, minimizing any savings on the front end.

You are paying thousands more up front for a Honda or Toyota and the people typically purchasing these vehicles are financing so once you combine the lower entry price as well as 0% financing it's a lot more attractive than getting into a comparable Toyota for $3k more and at 3% financing as the resale ends up being a wash in the end. You can option up a non-hybrid RAV-4 to $40k USD. That's bat shit crazy as my father in law owns a 2020 RAV-4 and it's thoroughly mediocre inside and out and the 4 cylinder engine sucks as it's very unrefined. Someone above said they would feel embarrassed to drive a Kia. I would be embarrassed to pay a premium price for a mediocre vehicle like the RAV-4.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by anglo

Your thoughts?

Because they are efficient and economical + cheap to insure. I lease a Kia Soul for one of my businesses that requires a lot of driving. I needed enough room to fit a decent amount of tools and equipment in there but I wanted something good on gas and cheap.

I pay $205 per month with $0 down for a car that requires the most basic of maintenance and is covered by warranty. My car insurance is around $80 per month with full coverage and glass.

I don't have to worry about anything because it's covered under the warranty and oil changes are dirt cheap. Over 3 years and 36k miles, I probably wont even have to change a set of tires or do any maintenance other than the oil changes.

So for me, the $205 a month for a cheap, reliable, efficient car is worth not dealing with the headaches of a high mileage used beater that may leave me stranded or breakdown. Yeah it's not fancy by any means or the most comfortable, but the value it brings to the table is hard/impossible to match by other brands.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by See5

Or it says that you drive a 13 year old BMW because you like cheap unreliable German sedans and can't afford any better.

No need to be elitist on here.

Lol I drive maybe 1 per week and I am not part of a throw away society that thinks newer is better. My car has very low mileage. I love my car and the steering feel.
I get my fix from my brothers m240i and I have an R Volvo.

If you like Kia go crazy and be happy. I think they are soulless and boring and meant for a-b driving.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Lol I drive maybe 1 per week and I am not part of a throw away society that thinks newer is better. My car has very low mileage. I love my car and the steering feel.
I get my fix from my brothers m240i and I have an R Volvo.

If you like Kia go crazy and be happy. I think they are soulless and boring and meant for a-b driving.

Drive a Kia Stinger, Genesis G70, or Veloster N, all great cars with some soul, and developed by the great Albert Biernmann (previous head of M division). Not like most of the new BMW's have much soul in them anyways.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

I get my fix from my brothers m240i and I have an R Volvo.

And any credibility you may have had just went out the window.

How do you like you mom's volvo? I mean no disrespect to the R, I respect it just as much as I respect the Stinger GT. It's you that's questionable here.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Lol I drive maybe 1 per week and I am not part of a throw away society that thinks newer is better. My car has very low mileage. I love my car and the steering feel.
I get my fix from my brothers m240i and I have an R Volvo.

If you like Kia go crazy and be happy. I think they are soulless and boring and meant for a-b driving.

My question is that if a toyota tercel had the same low miles and steering feel, would you have bought that rather than a BMW? Not to bust chops here, but there are only two reasons to buy a 328i -1.) It's more reliable than a 335i but not by much - it is most definitely slower. And 2.) People don't know any better - all they see is the BMW Roundel. (This is the case the vast majority of the time)

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

My question is that if a toyota tercel had the same low miles and steering feel, would you have bought that rather than a BMW? Not to bust chops here, but there are only two reasons to buy a 328i -1.) It's more reliable than a 335i but not by much - it is most definitely slower. And 2.) People don't know any better - all they see is the BMW Roundel. (This is the case the vast majority of the time)

Originally Posted by King Rudi

My question is that if a toyota tercel had the same low miles and steering feel, would you have bought that rather than a BMW? Not to bust chops here, but there are only two reasons to buy a 328i -1.) It's more reliable than a 335i but not by much - it is most definitely slower. And 2.) People don't know any better - all they see is the BMW Roundel. (This is the case the vast majority of the time)

So you are comparing a car with a responsive straight six with excellent handling to a tercel?
I've driven many cars and it still puts a smile on my face. 230hp is not super fast but still fun and it sounds great. If you think BMW is just about image then why are you on this board?
Do you not think they invented the sports sedan and every car company including the stinger tried to emulate them? Even my R is no match for an M3, I have no problem admitting that and nor is a stinger or genesis.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Do you not think they invented the sports sedan and every car company including the stinger tried to emulate them?

Off topic... but, Alfa Romeo invented the sports sedan.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Off topic... but, Alfa Romeo invented the sports sedan.

Originally Posted by jstein55

Off topic... but, Alfa Romeo invented the sports sedan.

Not the BMW 2002?
If not, Alfa has been pretty non existent in North America. Only now is Audi and Merc making sport sedans that can handle, and Audi still understeer so they are not there yet

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Not the BMW 2002?
If not, Alfa has been pretty non existent in North America. Only now is Audi and Merc making sport sedans that can handle, and Audi still understeer so they are not there yet

BMW arguably brought the sports sedan to America, but Alfa and even Jaguar made sports sedans before BMW.

A lengthy video, but very interesting.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

So you are comparing a car with a responsive straight six with excellent handling to a tercel?
I've driven many cars and it still puts a smile on my face. 230hp is not super fast but still fun and it sounds great. If you think BMW is just about image then why are you on this board?
Do you not think they invented the sports sedan and every car company including the stinger tried to emulate them? Even my R is no match for an M3, I have no problem admitting that and nor is a stinger or genesis.

No. I am not comparing anything. Merely asking a simple question. Obviously a Tercel isn't going to perform in the same manner. I do not feel that BMW is just about image. I've been around them my entire life and I've owned 2. To answer the question of why am I on this board, I came to learn how to mod my E93 and stumbled into the OT section. I sold the E93 last April. I have a love for BMW's, but I've made quite a few connections with the good people of BP.

I'll not touch the sports sedan bit. Looks like everyone else already handled that.