[huchung]

Finally. A good game from kobe...one good game out of four aint too bad...go LAKES

[aphall]

Go Lakers

[mava330]

WOOOOOOH HOOOOOOOO!!

[puck724]

hot damn!!

[aphall]

In all fairness, Nash got robbed with that jump ball call. But oh well!

[mava330]

Originally Posted by aphall

In all fairness, Nash got robbed with that jump ball call. But oh well!

FOOOK that! :mad: Kobe will get robbed not being the MVP! What about before that inbound pass when Nash steamrolled over Walton? Where was that foul?

This years MVP (Nash) single handedly LOST the game for his team TWICE! (regulation and overtime). MVP my left nut.

I'm not really a Laker or basketball fan BTW. Just like "drama" and oh this game had it.

but dood the Heat are imploding?! What's up with Peyton?

[Hunter399]

I was sooo pissed the lakers won



Nash was fouled so many times with no call...total BS

[BeeEmDubU]

haha this was one of the best games i have ever seen. the "mvp" chocked twice. i admit i got a little nervous at times, but anything is possible with kobe.

[rchanou]

Originally Posted by hunter399

I was sooo pissed the lakers won



Nash was fouled so many times with no call...total BS

Ha. There were calls going both ways. The Suns beat themselves by not capitalizing on open 3s. Did you see how bad they shot the 3? You can blame it on the refs but in reality you should never be in a situation where the refs have to make a call for you.

[Powertools]

one more "w" .....GO LAKERS

[timzerofive]

Epitome of MVP, I don't see how anyone will even try to argue this.

[rchanou]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Epitome of MVP, I don't see how anyone will even try to argue this.

agreed.

[huchung]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Epitome of MVP, I don't see how anyone will even try to argue this.

I will try:

Game FGM/A 3pt FT R A PT
Game 1: 7-21 1-6 7-8 6 5 22
Game 2:12-24 1-1 4-6 10 5 29
Game 3: 6-18 0-3 5-6 5 7 17
Game 4:9-14 0-1 6-8 4 8 24

So he has 2 good games out of four. See how hes 33% in the other two? How could he be the MVP of the series if he aint even the MVP of his team? Look at Lamar's number:

Game FGM/A 3pt FT R A PT
Game 1: 8-15 1-4 4-8 14 3 21
Game 2: 9-12 3-5 0-0 7 5 21
Game 3: 5-14 1-6 4-8 17 4 15
Game 4: 7-16 0-4 11-14 8 5 25

If you have been watching the game, the inside game of Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton have been the KEY to the lakers success. Not only are they outrebounding the Suns, theyre nulling all the Sun's big guys (Diaw, Marion, Thomas) on the inside. Their scheme is to get those three inside guys to stop the Suns running game, and pound the board (if you need me to explain their gameplan, just ask). Now, does Kobe rebound well? No. Has he taken Marion out of the equation? No. Has he played like this in all the games? No. Lamar has done ALL THAT, and more. Think Kobe's making Kwame and Luke better? HAHAHAHAHA. Guess who is.....L-O!

[rchanou]

Originally Posted by huchung

I will try:

Game FGM/A 3pt FT R A PT
Game 1: 7-21 1-6 7-8 6 5 22
Game 2:12-24 1-1 4-6 10 5 29
Game 3: 6-18 0-3 5-6 5 7 17
Game 4:9-14 0-1 6-8 4 8 24

So he has 2 good games out of four. See how hes 33% in the other two? How could he be the MVP of the series if he aint even the MVP of his team? Look at Lamar's number:

Game FGM/A 3pt FT R A PT
Game 1: 8-15 1-4 4-8 14 3 21
Game 2: 9-12 3-5 0-0 7 5 21
Game 3: 5-14 1-6 4-8 17 4 15
Game 4: 7-16 0-4 11-14 8 5 25

If you have been watching the game, the inside game of Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton have been the KEY to the lakers success. Not only are they outrebounding the Suns, theyre nulling all the Sun's big guys (Diaw, Marion, Thomas) on the inside. Their scheme is to get those three inside guys to stop the Suns running game, and pound the board (if you need me to explain their gameplan, just ask). Now, does Kobe rebound well? No. Has he taken Marion out of the equation? No. Has he played like this in all the games? No. Lamar has done ALL THAT, and more. Think Kobe's making Kwame and Luke better? HAHAHAHAHA. Guess who is.....L-O!

Do numbers tell everything? No. Have you seen how Kobe is being the floor general out there? Do you see all the double teams thrown at Kobe? These double teams freeing up other players, and with proper spacing from the triangle creating shot opportunities for others. It's no coincidence that Kobe has been the facilitator on 3 championship teams. Do you see how the Lakers get away from the gameplan when Kobe is not on the floor? Kobe does rebound well, he had 10 rebounds in game 2. He picks the Lakers up when they are down. More than anything Kobe has shown that he can play a team game. Not taking anything away from Lamar, he is simply abusing Marion on both defense and offense, but Kobe is simply leading this team to wins.

[huchung]

Originally Posted by rchanou

Do numbers tell everything? No. Have you seen how Kobe is being the floor general out there? Do you see all the double teams thrown at Kobe? These double teams freeing up other players, and with proper spacing from the triangle creating shot opportunities for others. It's no coincidence that Kobe has been the facilitator on 3 championship teams. Do you see how the Lakers get away from the gameplan when Kobe is not on the floor? Kobe does rebound well, he had 10 rebounds in game 2. He picks the Lakers up when they are down. More than anything Kobe has shown that he can play a team game. Not taking anything away from Lamar, he is simply abusing Marion on both defense and offense, but Kobe is simply leading this team to wins.

I agree, numbers dont tell the WHOLE story, but they tell about 75% of the story. Hes no doubt playing the best team game he's ever played, but that doesnt mean that his best team game is better than lamar's. Yea, he does get doubled, but 7 out of 10 times, he'll refuse to give up the ball. Before converting into this 'team' player, he'd take that shot over the double team 9/10 times. This leaves outside shooters, ie, Sasha, Luke, Smush, Devean, Cook out of rhythm. Rhythm is the BIGGEST factor when it comes to shooter.

"Have you seen how Kobe is being the floor general out there? Do you see all the double teams thrown at Kobe? These double teams freeing up other players, and with proper spacing from the triangle creating shot opportunities for others. "

Did you see how the Lakers were forced to play without him for the entire second quarter (foul trouble)? Reading your statement, I would figure they would be down big after not having him in the game due to foul trouble. He left with the game tied, he came back with the game tied, nothing gained, nothing loss. Hes no general when it comes to making others better (i should've thrown in the Turn Over stat in there), he simply CAN NOT make anyone around him better. Who did all the hauling the second quarter? Lamar.


"Do you see how the Lakers get away from the gameplan when Kobe is not on the floor? "
And to answer, no, they do not. The ball moves more fluidly, without anyone holding on to the ball (with exception of Kwame, but hes a big) and people are getting the ball when theyre open.

"It's no coincidence that Kobe has been the facilitator on 3 championship teams. "
What you call a 'facilitator', i call a side kick. Names that bring this to mind would be: Scotty, Penny, and Kobe. Three rings, and three finals MVP. Shaq in his prime made everyone look good. See how Penny's career panned out after shaq left orlando. Those years with Shaq will go down as Kobe's best years in his career. Hes not made to be first option; hes a second option, gun-slinging, shot-jacking player.

"More than anything Kobe has shown that he can play a team game. "
Team basketball is winning basketball. Its nice that hes showing he can, but Id rather it being an afterthought about his game. No one ever says Magic knew how to play the team game, they say he was a great ......(fill in the blank). No mention of the team game, because it is implied.

Hes having a good series, but in no way is he the mvp of the playoffs or the regular season. Phils gameplan is just magnificient and has taken away Phx's strength. They cant run, theyre not shooting the 3's, and their second option is nulled by great defense and fatigue.

[rchanou]

huchung,

are you saying that the Lakers are better without Kobe?

[mava330]

Doods... the MVP title is about many things... tangible and intangible... but one thing that it's premised on is this: LEADERSHIP!! This game demonstrated that and then some. Nash fooked up the game TWICE for his team! Kobe... well Kobe is Kobe. That's all. His actions spoke for itself.

[huchung]

Originally Posted by rchanou

huchung,

are you saying that the Lakers are better without Kobe?

Not in any means. But hes not the MVP of his team in this series.

[timzerofive]

The question is did YOU watch the games? If you did, you know who the MVP is. Without Kobe being double/tripple teamed constantly, without him spacing out the defense, without him facilitating the shots, without him running the offense, without his leadership, you think anyone on that team could've done what they did? Look at their starting 5: Odom, the underachiever throughout his career; Kwame, one of the biggest draft flops up to this point of his career, discarded by Wizards; Smush, bench warmer discarded by Suns; Luc, who? If you want to talk about stats alone, how about Kobe leading in assists. If you want to talk about clutch, he did it twice in a span of 6 min. And I know we don't even have to talk about scoring, because unless you want to bring wilt chamberlin out of retirement, that 81 is the most anyone in the world will score for a long while. Disregarding all these facts, let's go back to what you just said... kobe not being the mvp of his team in this series... without Kobe, this team would've been swept out of this series already.

Edit: To add to what's been said, this series was definitely won by the TEAM, not Kobe alone. Lame-r definitely was a major factor, but so was Luke, and Sasha, and Smush, and Kwame, and Cookie, and George. I would argue that Kwame being more of a factor then odom. Odom's stats didn't really pick up till this last game. But the most valuable player on this Laker team, is Kobe. No one in their right mind would trade Kobe for someone else, but arguably, Lamar is trade-able.

A quote from LA Time's article:
"...Said Luke Walton: "An amazing player, but an even better leader. He makes us better. All game long, he made us better."

Said Smush Parker: "And then, in the end, he won it for us. Just like you knew he would win it for us.""

[yu]

All said and done, Lakers cannot win without Kobe.

[timzerofive]

This part of the article is what it's all about, the Lakers. They remind me of the old Bulls with Jordan in a way. You just knew it was going to go the way it did.

On the last shot, when Walton went up for the jump ball against Nash, everyone knew where it was going.

"I was only looking for one guy," Walton said.

And when Bryant grabbed the ball in front of the scorer's table, everyone knew where he was going.

"You knew he was going to shoot it," said Sun Coach Mike D'Antoni, sighing. "And you knew he was probably going to make it."

Think about that.

Everyone knew what was happening, and Bryant still beat them.

We all expected him to pound his chest. But then, later, he pounded his teammates' chests.

"This is the most fun I've ever had," Bryant said. "Because this is us. This is us, the entire team, enjoying the moment with the entire city of Los Angeles."

[huchung]

"Mr. Clutch":

Add a couple more for sunday...i'll throw in a couple more freebies since the site hasnt been updated since 4/13/2006, and you get:

7/32 + 2/2 + 2/2 (freebies)= 11/36 ==> 30.6%.

from 82games:
"Kobe Bryant meanwhile has indeed had seven such made shots over the past three seasons (including playoffs), but at a pretty low conversion rate, even factoring in his free throws.

The other thing with Kobe and a number of go-to guys is that they are not looking to pass the ball! Zero assists in these "final possession" states for Bryant with 32 shots taken (the most for any player with zero assists) says something. "

Dont wanna bring up bad memories, but this is also the team, er....player, that has a losing record in games decided by <4 pts.

"You knew he was going to shoot it," said Sun Coach Mike D'Antoni, sighing. "And you knew he was probably going to make it."
30.6% of the time...
Think about that.