[GOLFFRR]

4 series :fire:

[alep85]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Their vehicles drive better than they used to. I had BMWs since 2008, the best ones are the ones I drove most recently.
Also, they're way more reliable and better built than they used to.
Also, they're so much more ahead of the competition, the gap is bigger than ever in their history. It's like M2, M3, M5 don't even have a real competition anymore.
And their designs are mostly hated by the Internet mob. This is a a bias that occurs when your surroundings don't represent the masses: you believe your circles are the masses. They're not.

BMW's best era is now, that's why their sales are higher than ever.

Depends on your definition of "best". Faster and more reliable cars with more cushy comfort and tons of tech? Yeah, they're better today at that.

A more driver-focused brand (like a luxury Mazda) with great handling/road feel and a focus on pleasing the enthusiast, not just via the M-level cars? Nah, they were better at that in the late 1990's to early 2010's.

Most of their sales increases are driven by the popularity of their X model SUV's and America's general march towards SUV's over sedans.

I do like the M340i you drive, it's one of the few gems in their lineup. I just wish it had a bit more steering feel and I'd probably replace my E90 M-Sport 335i with it. For now, I'm sticking with the E90 while it's still lower mileage and meeting my needs, but am keeping an eye on what BMW does with refreshing the M3 + their future EV's in deciding whether to jump to EV or stick with combustion engine for another new car.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by alep85

Depends on your definition of "best". Faster and more reliable cars with more cushy comfort and tons of tech? Yeah, they're better today at that.

A more driver-focused brand (like a luxury Mazda) with great handling/road feel and a focus on pleasing the enthusiast, not just via the M-level cars? Nah, they were better at that in the late 1990's to early 2010's.

Most of their sales increases are driven by the popularity of their X model SUV's and America's general march towards SUV's over sedans.

I do like the M340i you drive, it's one of the few gems in their lineup. I just wish it had a bit more steering feel and I'd probably replace my E90 M-Sport 335i with it. For now, I'm sticking with the E90 while it's still lower mileage and meeting my needs, but am keeping an eye on what BMW does with refreshing the M3 + their future EV's in deciding whether to jump to EV or stick with combustion engine for another new car.

I hear you and, as a BMW guy since the E30 3 series, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The “regular” BMW cars have been watered down tremendously compared to what the brand made in the 90’s and 2000’s. When I say watered down, I mean handling, driving and feel. The current cars are a product of customer surveys that showed most people don’t want a sports car….they want a luxury car with tons of tech and big size. My E36, E46, E60, E90, E53, E70 etc. cars were some of the best driving cars BMW ever made. The reliability and luxury was sometimes lacking, but man they were fun. The M versions of those cars were even more fun. The current generation of BMW cars/SUV’s aren’t fun, but they are solid and well-rounded cars that represent what most consumers want and this is why BMW is one of the best selling luxury brands. BMW has made it clear that people like you and me need to buy M cars because those cars are made for us. The problem is you used to be able to have the fun factor without spending M money……not anymore. Today, a BMW to me isn’t anything special if it’s not an M….

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

I hear you and, as a BMW guy since the E30 3 series, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The “regular” BMW cars have been watered down tremendously compared to what the brand made in the 90’s and 2000’s. When I say watered down, I mean handling, driving and feel. The current cars are a product of customer surveys that showed most people don’t want a sports car….they want a luxury car with tons of tech and big size. My E36, E46, E60, E90, E53, E70 etc. cars were some of the best driving cars BMW ever made. The reliability and luxury was sometimes lacking, but man they were fun. The M versions of those cars were even more fun. The current generation of BMW cars/SUV’s aren’t fun, but they are solid and well-rounded cars that represent what most consumers want and this is why BMW is one of the best selling luxury brands. BMW has made it clear that people like you and me need to buy M cars because those cars are made for us. The problem is you used to be able to have the fun factor without spending M money……not anymore. Today, a BMW to me isn’t anything special if it’s not an M….

I wholeheartedly disagree. I used to have F82, my current car is not an M, it's an M340i, and it's more fun than F82, for sure. I can push it more, I can carry more speed into corners, it feels lighter somehow, it sounds better, it has better grip. So there's that. All the 2 series cars are super fun as well, even 230i. Cars like X3, X5 are also fun for what they are, especially compared to competition like GLC, GLE, Q5, Q7, etc.

And no, BMW didn't cave in to those who seek comfort, as almost all BMWs are still some of the stiffest and most aggressive cars in their segments.
G20 forums are still full of people complaining about ride comfort. And I had E93, I don't think it was stiffer than G20 at all. Also, E92 M3 was softer than F82 M3 and G82 M3.

Also, BMW didn't just find luxury & tech & comfort. They were always high tech, luxury vehicles.

[Blue Angel]

BMW is not a sports sedan company anymore, they are an SUV company… they sell more SUVs than anything else.

Same goes for Porsche, BTW.

It’s a strange new world. I’m “only” 47 and I don’t get BMW’s newest gen cars either. BMW used to be the leader in 3-box sports sedans. They still make them, but in much lower numbers than most models.

[frankchn]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

BMW is not a sports sedan company anymore, they are an SUV company… they sell more SUVs than anything else.

Same goes for Porsche, BTW.

It’s a strange new world. I’m “only” 47 and I don’t get BMW’s newest gen cars either. BMW used to be the leader in 3-box sports sedans. They still make them, but in much lower numbers than most models.

I mean by this standard, Lamborghini is a SUV company too, and Ferrari will soon join them with the Purosangue.

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

BMW is not a sports sedan company anymore, they are an SUV company… they sell more SUVs than anything else.

Same goes for Porsche, BTW.

It’s a strange new world. I’m “only” 47 and I don’t get BMW’s newest gen cars either. BMW used to be the leader in 3-box sports sedans. They still make them, but in much lower numbers than most models.

SUVs have gotten practical and efficient. Once you get used to it, it's hard to go back to a sedan.

From personal experience, we got a '23 G30 5er and switched to an '23 X5 a few months after and the X5 does pretty much everything better with much more room for whatever life throws at you. I think the X5 is probably the best overall car on sale now for it's price.

The 5er on the other hand handled and drove better in the corners - but I have an M3 for that.

Also, comparing the G30 5er to the E39 (which is considered the best 5 by many purists), I can say that the G30 drives SO much better. My E39 is a 530i 5 speed and is more interesting to drive as it's more analog and manual but overall performance wise, the G30 530i is miles ahead, the chassis, steering, handling etc. The G30 is actually more fun to drive hard on canyon roads than the E39.

I don't believe in the "they used to built them better" and that's coming from someone who owns an older BMW and absolutely loves it.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by frankchn

I mean by this standard, Lamborghini is a SUV company too, and Ferrari will soon join them with the Purosangue.

The trend is undeniable. However in the case of the Purosangue, it’s expensive enough to still be a pretty rare car. On its own I’ll be surprised if it will eclipse all other Ferrari model sales, but whatever V8 powered SUV comes next certainly will.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

SUVs have gotten practical and efficient. Once you get used to it, it's hard to go back to a sedan.

From personal experience, we got a '23 G30 5er and switched to an '23 X5 a few months after and the X5 does pretty much everything better with much more room for whatever life throws at you. I think the X5 is probably the best overall car on sale now for it's price.

The 5er on the other hand handled and drove better in the corners - but I have an M3 for that.

Also, comparing the G30 5er to the E39 (which is considered the best 5 by many purists), I can say that the G30 drives SO much better. My E39 is a 530i 5 speed and is more interesting to drive as it's more analog and manual but overall performance wise, the G30 530i is miles ahead, the chassis, steering, handling etc. The G30 is actually more fun to drive hard on canyon roads than the E39.

I don't believe in the "they used to built them better" and that's coming from someone who owns an older BMW and absolutely loves it.

I see what you’re saying. I think it would be tough for a 5 to compete against an SUV daily AND a weekend toy, but for most people who don’t have multiple vehicles to fit multiple roles I think it does admirably. I have not driven the G30 yet, I have an F10, but I look forward to it.

My buddy’s Dad has an E39 540i manual and absolutely loves it. I think it’s a beautiful car. He’s driven it and admits it’s nice, but by today’s standards he’s not that impressed. For example, the shifter is absolutely terrible (loose and very rubbery) and though it is getting on in years and surely isn’t as tight as it once was, the basic design is still surprisingly bad considering the sporting nature of the car. How’s the shifter in your 530?

I put KW V3 suspension in my F10, which fixed most of what I didn’t like about the way it drove. It doesn’t fix the slow steering, but the turn-in is much better now and it handles really well for its size. It’s no canyon carver, for sure, but I have a Corvette for that.

I always drove “compact” class cars before and certainly appreciate the extra room in the 5. I love the way the F10 looks, and looks are probably 80% of the barrier to me getting an SUV. Maybe I’ll get there someday.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Jason

Q1 2023 BMW sales up 11.9 % vs Q1 2022.
Electrified (combined battery electric and plug-in hybrid electric) vehicles account for approximately 17% of U.S. sales in Q1.
Plug-in hybrid electric BMW XM Sports Activity Vehicle begins arriving in showrooms.
Q1 2023 MINI sales up 5.9% vs Q1 2022.
Woodcliff Lake, NJ – April 3, 2023… BMW of North America today reported Q1 2023 sales results for the BMW and MINI brands in the U.S.


BMW Brand
In the first quarter of 2023, BMW brand sales in the U.S. totaled 82,466 vehicles, an 11.9% increase from the 73,714 vehicles sold in the first quarter of 2022.

BMW Electric Vehicle Sales
BMW currently offers three fully electric models in the U.S. – the BMW iX Sports Activity Vehicle and the BMW i4 and BMW i7 Sedans. The first ever fully electric BMW i5 will arrive later this year.

BMW also offers plug-in hybrid electric variants of some of its most popular models including the BMW X5 xDrive45e, BMW 330e and BMW 530e. The plug-in hybrid electric BMW XM Sports Activity Vehicle has also recently begun arriving in showrooms.

In the first quarter of 2023, BMW sold 6,588 battery electric vehicles, which accounts for 8% of total U.S. sales. In total, electrified vehicles (combined battery
electric and plug-in hybrid electric), accounted for nearly 17% of U.S. sales this quarter.

“We are happy to report that the momentum of 2022 has carried over into the start of 2023,” said Sebastian Mackensen, President and CEO, BMW of North America. “And we are confident that sales of our [...]

Up 11% woo hoo!

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

It’s that i4 driving the growth

Idk, but I see a good amount of the i4 or… what is it?

M40i?

Idk, the electric sedan that kinda looks like the m3, but you know it isn’t because the grill closes up when cold.

I see more of those than I do m340i. I’ll guess on that they are selling pretty well.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Yup, I would much rather drive my i4 M50 than a run of the mill bland frog faced Tesla Model 3.

It’s definitely the nicer looking car, yours is.
Never really been a fan of Tesla’s styling either. I love their acceleration, but the styling to me looks kinda weird.

With the exception of the Tesla Roadster, I think that car is hot as hell.

I’ll give it to them there
The roadster is just a beautiful car… but I think we are taking $150-$200k there.

[DO444]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Tesla sells more vehicles in 1 quarter than BMW does for the entire year.

Yea, but what does that have to do with his comment?

He doesn’t like the styling.

Tesla selling a lot of cars doesn’t mean anything in that respect. Toyota sells a lot of cars too, but… so what?

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

I hope Bmw will suck big time in sales and will return to creating fantastically looking fun to drive vehicles that don’t pretend to be something they aren’t.

The thing is that if BMW went back to the days of small kidney grilles and all their cars looking very similar their sales would probably tank. I don't think anyone can dispute that BMW has been one of the most daring companies when it comes to their new designs but what also can't be disputed is the sales indicate that the masses seem to like the new direction. The reality is that catering to long time BMW owners rooted in the past is bad business for BMW.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The thing is that if BMW went back to the days of small kidney grilles and all their cars looking very similar their sales would probably tank. I don't think anyone can dispute that BMW has been one of the most daring companies when it comes to their new designs but what also can't be disputed is the sales indicate that the masses seem to like the new direction. The reality is that catering to long time BMW owners rooted in the past is bad business for BMW.

There's a fine line between evolutionary design and one that just seeks attention because it's outlandish. For years, BMW relied on design looks modern but pays homage to design language of the past, wrapped with styling cues that actually flow and make sense. Cars were sleek, but flowed and even non-car people knew it was a BMW.

Now, for better or worse sales-wise, they've chosen just to be outlandish. Cars like the G80 and XM are a mish mash of curves, hard edges, straight lines, curved lines, etc. with no real flow to anything. The back of the G80 doesn't even looks like it belongs with the front. It gets attention, sure, for the same reason that a rapper gets attention by wearing 10 gold chains.

[Tejas1836]

I think most of the new exterior styling is fresh and needed, BMW styling was becoming boring. Now the interior iDrive 8 screen really needs to be integrated into the dash, not just stuck on.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

I think most of the new exterior styling is fresh and needed, BMW styling was becoming boring. Now the interior iDrive 8 screen really needs to be integrated into the dash, not just stuck on.

That screen looks like an afterthought there. Makes it like it’s not integral part of the interior. I can’t imagine that the way it is installed and designed was approved by people in charge of that design. It’s hard to believe that the best that were in charge of the project came up with that solution and was approved by the board. Their cars are meant to look controversial. And in a bad way.

[GeorgeA]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

I see what you’re saying. I think it would be tough for a 5 to compete against an SUV daily AND a weekend toy, but for most people who don’t have multiple vehicles to fit multiple roles I think it does admirably. I have not driven the G30 yet, I have an F10, but I look forward to it.

My buddy’s Dad has an E39 540i manual and absolutely loves it. I think it’s a beautiful car. He’s driven it and admits it’s nice, but by today’s standards he’s not that impressed. For example, the shifter is absolutely terrible (loose and very rubbery) and though it is getting on in years and surely isn’t as tight as it once was, the basic design is still surprisingly bad considering the sporting nature of the car. How’s the shifter in your 530?

I put KW V3 suspension in my F10, which fixed most of what I didn’t like about the way it drove. It doesn’t fix the slow steering, but the turn-in is much better now and it handles really well for its size. It’s no canyon carver, for sure, but I have a Corvette for that.

I always drove “compact” class cars before and certainly appreciate the extra room in the 5. I love the way the F10 looks, and looks are probably 80% of the barrier to me getting an SUV. Maybe I’ll get there someday.

Yes I agree, if it’s an only car and you have an appetite for carving corners, the 5 is definitely the winner for that use case.

5 is also better at zipping around town quickly as it’s lighter on its feet than the X5.

Maybe I’ve gotten old but comfort and practicality are first priority for a daily now.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by allinon72

There's a fine line between evolutionary design and one that just seeks attention because it's outlandish. For years, BMW relied on design looks modern but pays homage to design language of the past, wrapped with styling cues that actually flow and make sense. Cars were sleek, but flowed and even non-car people knew it was a BMW.

Now, for better or worse sales-wise, they've chosen just to be outlandish. Cars like the G80 and XM are a mish mash of curves, hard edges, straight lines, curved lines, etc. with no real flow to anything. The back of the G80 doesn't even looks like it belongs with the front. It gets attention, sure, for the same reason that a rapper gets attention by wearing 10 gold chains.

It's clearly better sales-wise and that's the goal of all automakers. As classic as it was previous generations of BMW styling was stale to the masses and they needed change. I personally believe they went a bit too far in the other direction but I can't argue with the successful sales of most of their new vehicles.

[E66er]

Did I read that right...the G70 7 series is doing pretty good.

[Teutonic]

X2 would have been a success with a true xDrive with a RWD biased transmission and a nicer interior with proper (non-Mini) seats and a non-phalic ugly stick shifter.
I think that is unique and beautiful. Too bad. That 35 model was in my books. The interior and the transmission sealed my opinion.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Or could be the fact that more and more people would rather choose comfort over road feel then again i aint the biggest fan of the new steering feel in newer cars i rather much have the feel so you know exactly where the car is on the road.

But regarding the design and "hated by the masses" doubtful this more of a you thinking then the masses sense the masses seems to like the new design language more then the old. Again design is subjective so but don't speak for the "Masses" sense anytime anyone makes a claim like that it is in 90% of the time wrong just as 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Their vehicles drive better than they used to. I had BMWs since 2008, the best ones are the ones I drove most recently.
Also, they're way more reliable and better built than they used to.
Also, they're so much more ahead of the competition, the gap is bigger than ever in their history. It's like M2, M3, M5 don't even have a real competition anymore.
And their designs are mostly hated by the Internet mob. This is a a bias that occurs when your surroundings don't represent the masses: you believe your circles are the masses. They're not.

BMW's best era is now, that's why their sales are higher than ever.

Guys, the masses do not like the oversized grilles. It is a fact.

Try this - each and every time you are out with someone and see a 4 series…”hey, what do you think of the front end of that car?”

I have yet to find anyone say “I like it”.