[fcman]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

Careful .. buy an EV right before there is a battery breakthrough (we all know it will happen, but no one knows when) and your newly obsolete EV will be as desirable and valuable as a VCR.

I've got plenty of experience and am well prepared for that, I've bought used BMWs before

[tranquility]

I can imagine back in the 20s or whatever all those house-and-buggy-loving retrogrouches dissing the ICEs "meh, they have EXPLODING engines! They are too fast and dangerous! Gimme a a sturdy horse any day, bonus, they can even fertilize my lawn while I'm out and about. Take that stupid horseless carriages!!!!"

How did that turn out? Bwhahaha.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by ZL9M2

"Government money". That's the essence of the issue with the EV cult. If there was no "government money" for tax rebates and building out your charging infrastructure for you the tune would change.

Buy whatever you want, but don't ask everyone else to subsidize the fantasy.

Lol, but there is government money. And I’m happy to take it

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I can imagine back in the 20s or whatever all those house-and-buggy-loving retrogrouches dissing the ICEs "meh, they have EXPLODING engines! They are too fast and dangerous! Gimme a a sturdy horse any day, bonus, they can even fertilize my lawn while I'm out and about. Take that stupid horseless carriages!!!!"

How did that turn out? Bwhahaha.

When asked about customer input in the development of the Ford Model T, Henry Ford famously said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

"Change is hard because people overestimate the value of what they have and underestimate the value of what they may gain by giving that up." — James Belasco and Ralph Stayer

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by fcman

Lol, but there is government money. And I’m happy to take it

As much as I'm anti EV policy...

Note.....I didn't say anti-EV....

I don't blame you for taking the money since it's there. If an EV made sense to me, I'd take the money and run too.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

When anyone with young children espouses they are getting "government money" as a tax rebate for buying an EV, they are actually just adding to the debt burden and inflation their children already will have to deal with. The government is already some $34T in debt. Tax rebates for EV are nothing more than borrowing from future tax payers.

But hey, EV lovers are "educated ". Lol.

Haha, this is an example of fundamental ignorance of how government budgeting works, and macroeconomics in general. Like I said, this is an education problem

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Page 9. From memory it's 120 energy out, 163 energy in. (29 lost in generation, 13.x lost in transmission). Do correct me if I'm wrong, or if you can find more reliable figures. I do hate the "zero emissions" EV greenwashing!

Gotcha, you are talking about transportation losses, the others are talking about raw generation efficiency. Take a unit of fuel, burn it, extract energy from that burning, how much energy was lost in the process and how much was sent down the line as power? In the case of industrial power generation, it's 100% in, 40% out on average. Now you can factor something like 30% of that in losses on delivery, which is where your figure comes from. Delivery losses exist in all of the power solutions, a fact seemingly absent from most discussions. You can lose it in a fuel burning tanker truck, or in resistive wires and transformers.

Some will argue carbon generation can be ~65% efficient and gasoline engines are on average ~25% which is taking a best case to compare to an average, not a trustworthy way to make comparisons. ICE's can and do exceed 50% in best case. Average power generation is in the 40's, worse in coal-only areas.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Gotcha, you are talking about transportation losses, the others are talking about raw generation efficiency. Take a unit of fuel, burn it, extract energy from that burning, how much energy was lost in the process and how much was sent down the line as power? In the case of industrial power generation, it's 100% in, 40% out on average. Now you can factor something like 30% of that in losses on delivery, which is where your figure comes from. Delivery losses exist in all of the power solutions, a fact seemingly absent from most discussions. You can lose it in a fuel burning tanker truck, or in resistive wires and transformers.

Some will argue carbon generation can be ~65% efficient and gasoline engines are on average ~25% which is taking a best case to compare to an average, not a trustworthy way to make comparisons. ICE's can and do exceed 50% in best case. Average power generation is in the 40's, worse in coal-only areas.

Wow, I did totally misread that didn't I?

Ok, back to the drawing board... I'm going to figure this out now...maybe .

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Wow, I did totally misread that didn't I?

Ok, back to the drawing board... I'm going to figure this out now...maybe .

You’re good bro, it’s a valuable point to make when we discuss the true cost of charging EV’s when connecting to a power grid, especially when carbon is providing some or all of those watts.

[Car-Addicted]

Also remember there is economy of scale in the transportation of liquid or gas energy for ICE's that doesn't exist in electrical charging of EV's where every connection is unique (generation to end user).

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

You’re good bro, it’s a valuable point to make when we discuss the true cost of charging EV’s when connecting to a power grid, especially when carbon is providing some or all of those watts.

Yeah, I just had no idea the generation of mains electricity was so inefficient!

[zx10guy]

Hmm....

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-66510193

Wonder how something similar happening to the windmill farms being put up along the NJ/Atlantic coast would be handled?

[gonzo]

Progress...

Save the whales!
Also, our offshore wind farms will help save the planet!



But it seems the dotting of windmill shafts into whale migration waters has possibly discombobulated their 'gps' and other systems. They are dying at unprecedented numbers.



Screw the whales, save the planet!
Besides, we are heavily vested into the hideous monstrosities.

Progress...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by gonzo

. They are dying at unprecedented numbers.

ORLY, unprecedented numbers compared to what and you can link that to peer reviewed studies? Is this what they are selling on the Hunter Biden News Network?

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Progress...

Save the whales!
Also, our offshore wind farms will help save the planet!



But it seems the dotting of windmill shafts into whale migration waters has possibly discombobulated their 'gps' and other systems. They are dying at unprecedented numbers.



Screw the whales, save the planet!
Besides, we are heavily vested into the hideous monstrosities.

Progress...

Of all the things we've put in the sea, wind turbine foundations are the cause of whale deaths...right.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Of all the things we've put in the sea, wind turbine foundations are the cause of whale deaths...right.

https://twitter.com/shellenberger/st...ojects-n570882

Shellenberger released documentary on whale deaths and wind farm projects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6wa1Y2odhc

The Green Grift continues to Kill. Pretty naive to assume there is no connection here.

[RM7]

Ah yes, the esteemed institutions of Twitter and Youtube.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

EV 2033 to the moon !!!!!!!!

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by RM7

Ah yes, the esteemed institutions of Twitter and Youtube.

So you lack the ability to comment on the content leaving you attack the content provider. It's called VIDEO. Lame at best.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

So you lack the ability to comment on the content leaving you attack the content provider. It's called VIDEO. Lame at best.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/11/2...-wind-shipping


Significant increase in shipping through their feeding grounds. Significant uptick in deaths by blunt force trauma aka hit by boats

And he was right to question your source as the backers are known nuclear energy evangelists who are well known for their unfounded smear campaigns against other forms of energy. I will say that I do support more nuclear power though, I just don’t agree with spreading propaganda about other forms of energy.

Now, stop trying to derail EV threads

[Car-Addicted]

Cause / Effect. The wind turbine sonar mapping and construction more than likely affected the brains of the Whales causing ship strikes and groundings.

“NOAA said it has been studying what it calls “unusual mortality events” involving 174 humpback whales along the East Coast since January 2016. Agency spokesperson Lauren Gaches said that period pre-dates offshore wind preparation activities in the region.” Gaches is NOAA Fisheries press chief.

The “unusual mortality” data is astounding. Basically the humpback death rate roughly tripled starting in 2016 and continued high thereafter. You can see it here:

There are lots of ways this sonar blasting might cause whales to die. Simply fleeing the incredible noise could cause ship strikes or fish gear entanglements, the two leading causes of whale deaths. Of the whales could be deafened, increasing their chances of being struck by a ship later on. Direct bleeding injury, like getting their ears damaged, is another known risk, possibly leading to death from infection. So there can be a big time difference between blasting and death.

Note also that these deaths need not be in the immediate vicinity of the sonar blasting, so spatial correlation is unlikely. Humpbacks in particular are prodigious travelers. One group was tracked traveling 3,000 miles in just 28 days, over 100 miles a day on average. Another group routinely migrates 5,000 miles. Both are winter-summer migrations which can happen twice a year.
https://www.cfact.org/2023/01/23/evi...ots-of-whales/

[MmmmmM2]

Great...Another EV thread.