[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Via the aricle linked above, VALUE is the justification.

—“Anyone buying this could very well end up a faster driver than someone buying an M2 or Nismo,” contended Orlove. At right around $52,000, the Type S is an expensive Integra. But amid this august group, it’s a steal. “I don’t believe you can buy a better car for less money anywhere else,” asserted Farah.

In the real world, value matters. And that’s why the Acura Integra Type S is a Road & Track Performance Car of the Year.—

In the real world… as opposed to the automotive journalism one? Illogical. How about this: in the real world, FWD 4 bangers aren’t worth $52k. In the real world, an M2 is $65k and twice the car and a much better value.

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

You are correct. Acura is an amazing car and a great achievement by Honda. To non believers. Watch this review (skip,to,30 min for driving if short on time

Accura feels and drives much lighter vs m2. It is in fact a much lighter car and changes directions gloriously. It is porsche like in its transitions.
Acura’s shifter is ages ahead of bmw. Transmission is brilliant. Can be shifter very fast and precise. Plus its a 4 door car with huge hatch which makes it a much better daily or family car. More comfortable too

also this is the first I'm hearing about this acura, thing is running 300hp to the front wheels why is it even in discussion against something like the M2.... with the same tires the M2 gapped it 2.5 seconds on a ~1:20 lap at thunderhill which is a tight little technical course the M2 can't stretch its legs on properly.... would be an embarrasing gap around a proper track like watkins glen or road 'murica

[baron95]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

pretty stupid that the mustang has Trofeo on for tests like this and apparently Ford is really strict about them staying on, makes the results kinda pointless and not the W ford seems to think it is. Anyone can slap crazy tires on a car to pad the performance stats, lets see it with the same tires everyone else is running

Agreed, but on the other hand, kudos to Ford for offering a handling package from the factory with Trofeo RS. Those who want to track don’t need to do a thing.

It’s a bummer that in the US BMW does even offer the Cup 2s on the M2. Options are good.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by rofsky

Without writing a ton here, I did a 1 day m school at thermal in november. Drove an m2, m4 comp ceramic brake, and a m5 comp. Hands down the m4 was my fav. The m2 was my least. I daily an x3mc. My 2nd an lci, i had a pre lci before. I left there not wanting an m2. M4/M3 is better imo and after driving the ceramic m4 its def something special. The i4 m50 drives really well too, blew my mind to see a peak at what M will do with that 4 motor 1320hp true e M to come. Like my x3mc more than the m2 no question. Just my opinion.

Everyone has their preferences, and that is great. But it’s hardly fair to compare the base M2 which is a $65-70K car as typically equipped to an M4C with carbon ceramics which is a $110K car.

In term of value for the M2 is unbeatable in the BMW M line up. Plus it is the closest to the original M (M3) formula - nearly identical in size to an E46 and E92.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

If it weighed what the Porsche does, or even 100lbs more, it'd have won the test.

Well my M2 will lose 100lbs - Antigravity battery ($800) and 826M takeoff forged wheels ($2,500 with nearly new tires).

So I guess it wins.

[rofsky]

Originally Posted by baron95

Everyone has their preferences, and that is great. But it’s hardly fair to compare the base M2 which is a $65-70K car as typically equipped to an M4C with carbon ceramics which is a $110K car.

In term of value for the M2 is unbeatable in the BMW M line up. Plus it is the closest to the original M (M3) formula - nearly identical in size to an E46 and E92.

In a comparison of the 3 mentioned that was the feedback regardless. As I said I am sure tires played a role, but none the less that was how I felt about the cars. As you said you cant really compare at a diff spec fairly. M2s near me always have a big markup so the value is missing in this case, like I also said we just got in the cars and put settings to their spec. If it was my car it would be different and the tires would be good

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by baron95

Well my M2 will lose 100lbs - Antigravity battery ($800) and 826M takeoff forged wheels ($2,500 with nearly new tires).

So I guess it wins.

Ha, 100 down, 300 to go.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

also this is the first I'm hearing about this acura, thing is running 300hp to the front wheels why is it even in discussion against something like the M2.... with the same tires the M2 gapped it 2.5 seconds on a ~1:20 lap at thunderhill which is a tight little technical course the M2 can't stretch its legs on properly.... would be an embarrasing gap around a proper track like watkins glen or road 'murica

Hilarious and brilliant

Reminds me of the same argument in 2005 of the e46 m3 v Acura TL… Drive the FWD for a little while and you’ll be aching for that M3 back. Same now with the M2.

R&T has lost their mind

[D22M2]

Topgear chose the 2023 CTR as their 2023 performance car of the year over the G87 M2 - I guess Chris Harris and company has lost their freaking minds as well (or maybe it’s actually a bad ass ride)

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

In the real world… as opposed to the automotive journalism one? Illogical. How about this: in the real world, FWD 4 bangers aren’t worth $52k. In the real world, an M2 is $65k and twice the car and a much better value.

Exactly. I would never & will never fully respect a FWD car in any regard. No matter how "glorious" one can corner on a certain track. The M2 is a value that can't be compared to much, if anything at all for its exceptional base price.

[mfarrzhp]

Lightweight FWD cars with a 6 speed can be a lot of fun. I have a 2024 GLI as a daily, and the Integra Type A was originally on my list. I haven’t driven the ITS, but is it worth over $20K more than the GLI? The VW isn’t going to win any car of the year awards, but at $30K it brings a lot of smiles on the road.

I also, have an F87 CS which is a completely different car and certainly much closer to the G87 than the ITS.

The ITS is expensive and doesn’t have supermodel looks. On paper, the G87 seems like a much better value. At $50K, I’d say the Golf R seems like a better value proposition than the Acura. At $65K, I can’t think of a better car than the M2.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

Lightweight FWD cars with a 6 speed can be a lot of fun. I have a 2024 GLI as a daily, and the Integra Type A was originally on my list. I haven’t driven the ITS, but is it worth over $20K more than the GLI? The VW isn’t going to win any car of the year awards, but at $30K it brings a lot of smiles on the road.

I also, have an F87 CS which is a completely different car and certainly much closer to the G87 than the ITS.

The ITS is expensive and doesn’t have supermodel looks. On paper, the G87 seems like a much better value. At $50K, I’d say the Golf R seems like a better value proposition than the Acura. At $65K, I can’t think of a better car than the M2.

German FWD doesn’t equate to Japanese FWD. in many real-life driving circumstances FWD is inferior. Torque steer on a 300hp+ FWD is a buzz kill.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

pretty stupid that the mustang has Trofeo on for tests like this and apparently Ford is really strict about them staying on, makes the results kinda pointless and not the W ford seems to think it is. Anyone can slap crazy tires on a car to pad the performance stats, lets see it with the same tires everyone else is running

The Trofeo tires are standard with the DH handling package. It's not like Ford slapped them on to beat the M2. Motor Trend compared the DH and M2 with virtually the same setups and got the same results.

Complaining about this is the same tired losing argument we (BMW M2 owners) used when the Camaro SS 1LE with Eagle F1 Supercar tires laid down better lap times than the M2C.

[sirwestofash]

I'm not just shilling for BMW here but why did this include an m2 and not an m3. The m3 without carbon bucket seats, carbon ceramic brakes, and the professional drive track day can be 90k to 100k easily. Does their "under 100k" factor in delivery, taxes, and additional charges when buying at a dealer or just MSRP?

Or is this strictly focused on "cars that came out/released" this year? In which case. Why should anyone look at this? If you're spending north of 50k and less than 100k. Wouldn't you want the best car regardless of when the generation was released?

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by wjones14

The Trofeo tires are standard with the DH handling package. It's not like Ford slapped them on to beat the M2. Motor Trend compared the DH and M2 with virtually the same setups and got the same results.

Complaining about this is the same tired losing argument we (BMW M2 owners) used when the Camaro SS 1LE with Eagle F1 Supercar tires laid down better lap times than the M2C.

I wasn't saying they slapped them on specifically for the test, just that the tires are significantly better which skews the results quite a bit on their own. Guess BMW needs to offer a $5k track pack with some nice wide Trofeo rubber and ship only that pack to all the reviewers lol

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

German FWD doesn’t equate to Japanese FWD. in many real-life driving circumstances FWD is inferior. Torque steer on a 300hp+ FWD is a buzz kill.

Yeah I drove a mk7 GTI for a few years with a stage 1 tune and while it wasn't too torque-steery thanks to VW's engineering team, any sort of adverse conditions ruined traction real quick and it was always a buzz kill being near the limit of grip in the 2nd half of a corner and then trying to throttle out to exit, the front tires are like "nah I don't think so kimosabe"

[VR1]

Pretty hilarious how much a 4 banger Honda has triggered a bunch of BMW owners

[ourlee]

When you build a M2 and base 718 there’s a $15k+ p car tax. The M2 is almost free to me it’s such a great value.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by VR1

Pretty hilarious how much a 4 banger Honda has triggered a bunch of BMW owners

Triggered or appealed to a universal, philosophical or practical general understanding of physics and driving dynamics and engineering? I’d be as “triggered” if the M2 wasn’t even in the contest. I’d rate a handful of non-BMW’s above a FWD architecture. Again I think R&T has lost their mind or need some marketing $ from Honda or both.

[VR1]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Triggered or appealed to a universal, philosophical or practical general understanding of physics and driving dynamics and engineering? I’d be as “triggered” if the M2 wasn’t even in the contest. I’d rate a handful of non-BMW’s above a FWD architecture. Again I think R&T has lost their mind or need some marketing $ from Honda or both.

There’s much more that goes into making a drivers car than pure capability.

Considering how uncommunicative the latest G series cars are, I’m not sure why this is a surprising outcome?

The CTR won MTs car of the year and TGs car of the year, and the ITS also was placed ahead of the G80 CS by Evo. Every review of the car talks about how communicative the car is in a sea of modern numbness. R&Ts perspective is not really a unique one at all.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by wjones14

The Trofeo tires are standard with the DH handling package. It's not like Ford slapped them on to beat the M2. Motor Trend compared the DH and M2 with virtually the same setups and got the same results.

Complaining about this is the same tired losing argument we (BMW M2 owners) used when the Camaro SS 1LE with Eagle F1 Supercar tires laid down better lap times than the M2C.

I'm coming from a Camaro SS 1LE (which has been a bulletproof track monster for 5 years) to the G87 M2. I really wished BMW would have a box to tick to get wider more track oriented tires.

Having said that it is an easy mod - I just need to go through the 2 sets of oEM G8X tires (one MPS4S, one PZERO) and then go to a better tire.

The point is still valid though, the M2's lap time were done with street oriented tires and the DH were done with the grippiest street legal tires on the market. So you need to take that into account.

[BigEvan1923]

Originally Posted by baron95

A few interesting take aways....

1 Weight. Everyone keeps on harping on how heavy the M2 is, but it is only 41 lbs (less than 19KG) heavier than the 2-seat pure sports car the Nismo Z, and it is 230 lbs (>100KG) lighter than the Mustang.

2 - Lap Times: The Mustang put down a monster lap time (those Trofeo RS 80 threadwear tires are something), but the BMW with usable 300 threadwear tires was only 1.6 sec behind.

and 1 second behind the carrera T - the only other car that would be on my somewhat obtainable list.