[adc]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

I manage twisty roads at high speed with my i5 M60.

That is hardly an objective endorsement. People have very different ideas for what “high speed” and “twisty” mean.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

laughs in VCG OFHG OPG water pump and thermostat

Those are old N/S engine issues though. Other than the S55 in M2C those engines haven't been on sale in at least 5 years. I'm guessing this survey is mostly B48 and B58 cars.

[335xs2dinan]

Will this make a difference in resale values?

[Scrapula]

[QUOTE=adc;30941464]That is hardly an objective endorsement. People have very different ideas for what “high speed” and “twisty” mean.

[BMWbiker]

When shopping for a new car recently, I briefly considered the new hybrid X5. It’s bigger than I was looking for, but I liked the idea of a hybrid, and the X5 is so well regarded by CR.

Then I looked at its reliability rating.

Then I started to read in other venues about customer experiences.

The ICE X5 is very well regarded. The new hybrid has, um, issues.

Despite this, BMW did very well in CR ratings. Kudos.

Oh, I ended up with an X3 M40i.

[baron95]

Here is the thing. it's relatively easy to have great quality/reliability when your product cadence and innovation are slow - e.g. Toyota. it's much harder when you are innovating very fast - I think BMW has had the biggest changes in the product line up in the last 5 years than any other brand. the line up is nearly entirely new now. The fact that they did this while improving quality and reliability in the process is simply amazing.

And it's good to see the buying public is rewarding them with record sales.

[terrywang]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

I was waiting for that inline 6 and when they killed it along with the Mazda 6, I deserted them.

CX-60, CX-90, CX-70, CX-80, these models have the combo: inline 6 3.3T (very similar to B58) + Mazda's single clutch 8AT + AWD.

However, several recalls already happened for all CX-60 and CX-90, most recently one affects all sold in Australia (~5257) since 2023, the power steering assembly defect...

Also heard from internal source that these 2 models didn't pick up enough sales, some not that great feedback on CX-60 driving dynamics, I am yet to test drive one to understand how different it drives vs a X3 M40i of similar size.

This new drivetrain needs some time to improve, I won't consider before it has 2 "service packs".

[farishat]

Originally Posted by baldyloxx

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a6159221985/

Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?

We ranked 34 brands based on the Overall Scores of their models, which include road tests, reliability, satisfaction, and safety

Attachment 3397870Attachment 3397871

I never believed in anything Consumer Reports say or do. They are pretty much nonsense to me

[Schn3ll]

Originally Posted by tsbrown

My former employer would invest a huge amount of time and engineering resources into getting a CU #1 rating on their new models because it yielded significantly higher sales. Not sure it always yielded a better product though.

Aside from that, I'm not sure the road test score of Porsche vs BMW tells the full story unless you know what that score really means.

I am in a similar boat. However, the power of CU has dwindled in recent years. Readership is aging out, and subscribership is way down. I think as younger generations rely more heavily on social media to evaluate product, the impact of CU #1 is far less than it was 20 years ago.

I have had CU #1 products that I have developed, and the impact over the last 5 years is marginal. And correct, some sacrifices are made so it can be reviewed favorably by this one source, rather than the average consumer.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by vpatel867

Merc. What happen?

It’s Toto’s fault…

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by vpatel867

Merc. What happen?

Do you mean what happened to MB? MB hasn't made a good quality car since 1988.

[Blue18M5]

SOO many forums upset over this. But I keep trying to tell them I have owned BMWs for years without issues or major repairs. No one believes me.

[GOLFFRR]

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by baron95

Here is the thing. it's relatively easy to have great quality/reliability when your product cadence and innovation are slow - e.g. Toyota. it's much harder when you are innovating very fast - I think BMW has had the biggest changes in the product line up in the last 5 years than any other brand. the line up is nearly entirely new now. The fact that they did this while improving quality and reliability in the process is simply amazing.

And it's good to see the buying public is rewarding them with record sales.

my friend - people passionately defend the prior gen tacoma as being indestructible... well when you have an V6 engine with the power of a 4 cylinder and the efficiency of a V8, it's not particularly difficult to achieve such a feat after making the same engine for 20 years.

Now, Toyota's newer Tundra offerings have below average reliability because it's their first move into new turbo 6s in ages.... they won't be close to B58 reliability levels for years because they are so far behind in that type of motor... they also don't paid w the Zf8 tranny... which is now proven over and over.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by kgelfen360

2.0 liter four banger with lots of batteries in AMG car…..

This plus shitty reliability will rank your ratings.

[SteVTEC]

<-- Make note of username.

Decisions by product management can have a significant impact here. Case in point, Honda's garbage CVT transmissions in many of their core models ruin the driving experience, have terrible reliability, and thus overall satisfaction drops due to both, all to save a few bucks. Were it not for that, you might have seen Honda closer to #1 in the rankings. The single Honda vehicle I owned a long time ago was a piece of garbage, with a blow up in your face transmission. Honda's weak point has always been their transmissions, but why they would choose to go with the least satisfying and most unreliable type of transmission in the world for most of their vehicles is beyond me.

If BMW's were really so bad, people wouldn't keep buying and driving them is what I told myself over 15 years ago when moving away from Japanese vehicles, after my Toyota was in the shop for the umpteenth time, having to get towed out of my driveway, and which also needed a new transmission (wtf). Haven't bought another Japanese car. Overrated, IMHO. Toyota/Honda reliability is not what it used to be, while BMW's in particular have gotten a lot better, and drive in a different league entirely.

Well deserved by BMW, imho.

If you plan to own one long-term and out of warranty though, you still need to find and make good friends with a local independent BMW shop.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Blue18M5

SOO many forums upset over this. But I keep trying to tell them I have owned BMWs for years without issues or major repairs. No one believes me.

Same here. I have told many people that BMW is a very reliable car these days. A lot of people are thinking about the 90’s and early 2000’s when BMW reliability was junk. That all changed around circa 2012 when BMW really got their act together on the reliability front.

[gadgetfreak2024]

I like getting my monthly Consumer Reports. And I like our X5 50e. That being said these overall rankings — in my view — should overweight Owner Satisfaction as the key metric that basically incorporates all subjective factors. Isn’t that what it comes down to? Are we as owners/drivers satisfied?

Rivian owners certainly seem to be. So why is Rivian ranked so far down? Subaru buyers are somewhat less satisfied. So why so high in the rankings?

If Rivian’s growing pains production-wise were so problematic for a driver, owners wouldn’t be so satisfied. If Subaru’s reliability were so compelling in absence of other factors (like being fun to drive, etc) then owners would likely be more satisfied.

Just my 2¢.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by AM20 BMW

As someone who used to work at Mercedes, I would stay far from them as possible. Felt so good when I finished work to get back in my BMW, plus including me even a lot of employees including technicians and a long working senior salesman all drive BMW’s and say it’s better.

My buddy who was a MERC dealership TECH said the same thing, as Consumer Reports. Hell even Scotty Kilmer says so.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Same here. I have told many people that BMW is a very reliable car these days. A lot of people are thinking about the 90’s and early 2000’s when BMW reliability was junk. That all changed around circa 2012 when BMW really got their act together on the reliability front.

I would say they got their act together later than 2012, around 2016 with the biggest turnaround due to the reliability of the B58 engine. The whole drama about the N63 engines and N54 HPFP's were still going full blast in 2012. My 2013 CPO 650i was one big introduction to getting to know my BMW dealership's Service Managers.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

I would say they got their act together later than 2012, around 2016. The whole drama about the N63 engines and N54 HPFP's were going full blast still. My 2013 CPO 650i was one big introduction to getting to know my BMW dealership's Service Managers.

You make a good point and by 2016 the reliability was very good across the board. However, having owned BMW’s since the 90’s, to me, 2012 was the turning point and it’s important to point out that I purposely avoided 6 and 7 series cars because their reliability hadn’t caught up to the lower-end’s reliability improvement. I had a 2012 F10 535 that was perfect on the reliability front. I also had a 2013 E92 M3 coupe that was also bulletproof. Prior to those two cars, I had numerous issues with my BMW’s. However, I do recall hearing people complain that the higher-end BMW’s were still problematic at times until later in that decade.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

I would say they got their act together later than 2012, around 2018 with the biggest turnaround due to the reliability of the B58 engine. The whole drama about the N63 engines and N54 HPFP's were still going full blast in 2012. My 2013 CPO 650i was one big introduction to getting to know my BMW dealership's Service Managers.

This is absolutely correct... 2015-2016 was the turning point. Every BMW my family has owned since then has never seen a service shop outside of maintanence.