[joyride08]

Is that a new tag line?

V4, sampling Data 3-5 times faster, so while you're losing to JB3, you'll see why... faster!

or

V4, Sampling Data 3-5 times faster, hey, I won something for once...

or

V4, Sampling Data 3-5 times faster FTMFW!

[pcmike]

LOL, you guys are pretty ridiculous sometimes. I meant the money for either tune is no issue, not the money for a NEW car is not the issue.

Also, in terms of "just returning" the other one.. that's really not entirely true as I see it. A JB3 requires a BT to even know if any codes were thrown and then to clear them. The BT tool is also required for logging, no? I doubt BMS will let me return "everything" I need to actually get the most out of a JB3, am I correct? If I could simply return the tune, the BT, and the USB cable, then it'd be a no brainer. The Vishnu return policy is pretty spot on.... but then I'm just buying a vishnu and no better off in TRULY making a decision.. because the only choice if I purchase both would be the JB3 since I technically will have money invested that I can get back! Am I making any sense?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by joyride08

Is that a new tag line?

V4, sampling Data 3-5 times faster, so while you're losing to JB3, you'll see why... faster!

or

V4, Sampling Data 3-5 times faster, hey, I won something for once...

or

V4, Sampling Data 3-5 times faster FTMFW!

I guess there are always those who need to read the warning labels on hammers.

Btw, one of the things one will be able to datalog is vehicle speed with respect to time. So one can compare acceleration times with multiple tunes. So one doesn't have to say something useful like "this tune is so fast, it made me it's bi&tch today."

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by pcmike

The money is not really an issue. I mean we are on a BMW forum, right? I'm looking for reliability, drivability, and ease of use. From what I've read there really is no easy way to get a flash without sending your DME through the mail (people actually do this, crazy). If you can point me to some way of getting a reflash in my area (South Florida) without actually doing anything special (meaning.. not doing anything that I wouldn't already be doing if I was getting a vishnu or jb3) I'm all ears. If not, it's really not a viable option.

Try Champion Motorsports in Pompano and ask for Victor who is a really nice guy to deal with. Tell them Kelvin sent you.

You can have a 30 day trial and see how you like it... I have tried most tunes including Dinan, JB3 1.4 and Procede v3 are all great tunes but I found that GIAC is the best for me.

[NRG]

Originally Posted by pcmike

LOL, you guys are pretty ridiculous sometimes. I meant the money for either tune is no issue, not the money for a NEW car is not the issue.

Also, in terms of "just returning" the other one.. that's really not entirely true as I see it. A JB3 requires a BT to even know if any codes were thrown and then to clear them. The BT tool is also required for logging, no? I doubt BMS will let me return "everything" I need to actually get the most out of a JB3, am I correct? If I could simply return the tune, the BT, and the USB cable, then it'd be a no brainer. The Vishnu return policy is pretty spot on.... but then I'm just buying a vishnu and no better off in TRULY making a decision.. because the only choice if I purchase both would be the JB3 since I technically will have money invested that I can get back! Am I making any sense?

I would keep the BT no matter what tune your running or not. It's simply an awesome tool for our cars. 2.0 has its logging capabilities without BT as well as V4. I believe that you'll be returning tunes only both sides, the USB cables are optional for both and up to you if you need them or not.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Try Champion Motorsports in Pompano and ask for Victor who is a really nice guy to deal with. Tell them Kelvin sent you.

You can have a 30 day trial and see how you like it... I have tried most tunes including Dinan, JB3 1.4 and Procede v3 are all great tunes but I found that GIAC is the best for me.

Kelvin, how is it you return a tune? What if you leave and never go back?
Oh wait, I suppose yopu leave a deposit refundable upon you getting flashed back to stock? Anyway, how does the GIAC stack up powerwise?

BTW nice to see this thread has been mature so far and not degenerated to the usual childish it always seems to go to anytime JB3/PROCede get mentioned in the same sentence. Thanks guys for the maturity...

[pcmike]

Why would I be returning tunes on both sides? What am I missing?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

LOL! Nothing wrong with data as the more data we have the better. But it is funny that "one drive is all it takes" didn't quite work out as planned so now we've moved to "one V4 datalog is all it takes"... <just kidding> Looking forward to the user experiences.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by NRG

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I would keep the BT no matter what tune your running or not. It's simply an awesome tool for our cars.

I think this is a good take home message. A BT tool is awesome to have no matter if you drive with a JB3, Proceed or a flash tune.

Mike

[pcmike]

Well I'm not going to disagree... but in my situation of looking for a "set it and forget it" tune.. if I went with a procede and the car happened to throw a code, I can just delete it. In this situation I would never even use a BT tool, because I would simply have no use for it. For someone like myself, literally the only reason I would be getting a BT tool would be to ensure the car hasn't thrown any codes before going in for service. No other reason...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

LOL! Nothing wrong with data as the more data we have the better. But it is funny that "one drive is all it takes" didn't quite work out as planned so now we've moved to "one V4 datalog is all it takes"... <just kidding> Looking forward to the user experiences.

Mike

Actually that slogan applies quite well. At least judging by the number of other-than-rev2 tunes in the classified section lately. This little data acquisition do-dad will just help establish a proper logging standard for those
who want to quantify what try feel.

Shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Well I'm not going to disagree... but in my situation of looking for a "set it and forget it" tune.. if I went with a procede and the car happened to throw a code, I can just delete it. In this situation I would never even use a BT tool, because I would simply have no use for it. For someone like myself, literally the only reason I would be getting a BT tool would be to ensure the car hasn't thrown any codes before going in for service. No other reason...

Hey Mike(?),
If BMS is agreeable, how would u like to do a fully disclosed comparison test between v4 and jb3 2.0? I'd be willing to get a loaner v4 in your hands for a week or so. If bms would do the same, you could do a comparison test for the forum and even use our new data acqusition harness to put numbers to your driving impressions. And then, when you are done, just keep (and pay for) the one you prefer.

Shiv

[pcmike]

Sounds good to me. We just had a local meet down here this past Sunday and the guys were talking about doing another one this Sunday. I'm sure they'd all love to see the differences between the two tunes on an otherwise fully stock 335i. I must say though Shiv, you're entering dangerous territory down here.. everyone I've met locally is pretty stuck on JB3. I, of course, only care about three things.. reliability, drivability, and ease of use. Whichever ends up fulfilling those three requirements the best will be the one I keep, that's for sure.

[Sniz]

one of the cleanest tune threads Ive seen on here in awhile. Bravo.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Sounds good to me. We just had a local meet down here this past Sunday and the guys were talking about doing another one this Sunday. I'm sure they'd all love to see the differences between the two tunes on an otherwise fully stock 335i. I must say though Shiv, you're entering dangerous territory down here.. everyone I've met locally is pretty stuck on JB3. I, of course, only care about three things.. reliability, drivability, and ease of use. Whichever ends up fulfilling those three requirements the best will be the one I keep, that's for sure.

We have a bunch customers in the miami area. And one that just set a trap speed record down there for a no-meth/no nos car (nearly 123mph). You're not going to see that with a stock car but nothing would stop you from running both tunes at the strip and on the street and posting your findings.

Maybe Mike@n54 can ask Terry if he's okay with participating.

[yandy]

N/m miss read

[shoes]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Well I'm not going to disagree... but in my situation of looking for a "set it and forget it" tune.. if I went with a procede and the car happened to throw a code, I can just delete it. In this situation I would never even use a BT tool, because I would simply have no use for it. For someone like myself, literally the only reason I would be getting a BT tool would be to ensure the car hasn't thrown any codes before going in for service. No other reason...

I was in your exact situation. I wanted a "set and forget" tune; I went with the JB3 for that exact reason.
Although nice for some, I had no interest in the customizability of the Procede (at the time at least). I felt there was no reason to pay more for something I would never use.

Regarding the BT tool, I was also the same as you. I figured I would only use the BT to make sure no codes were thrown before a dealer visit - for the most part this remains true.
I do find it interesting to see whats going on with my car from time to time, but with that said, I personally don't feel like I use the BT enough to justify it's purchase; it's more a piece-of-mind kind of thing.
On the other hand, it really is more than just a 'code clearing device.' It's a fairly complete diagnostic cable/software system which is nice to have regardless.

Now that BMS introduced customizable maps into their JB3 with 2.0 - it's even more competitive/comparable to the procede in terms of personalization - I find myself becoming more interested in the technical side of things now that I'm more comfortable and knowledgeable.
Fortunately for me, the JB3 is turning out to be better and more than expected.

[pcmike]

Not going to lie, I hear what you're saying. However, there are a few things that really kind of don't sit well with me when it comes to JB3. I know this is being nit picky, but honestly.. I feel like I'm being taken for an expensive ride for the PnP option. Can you honestly tell me the PnP harness cost ANYWHERE NEAR $230 to make? Sure $579 is still cheaper than $945, but when the pinout is only $349 I feel like I'm getting screwed. Also, I don't like that I need to buy that BT tool.. sure, I understand, it's more than just a code clearing device.. but I honestly will probably NEVER use it for anything but that. Another thing I was ticked off about was the fact that the JB3 (up until gen3, which admittedly I just realized there were different generations a few hours ago) required you to buy a chip burner to update to the latest maps (or to 2.0). I guess this is a moot point with any new purchase, but originally that felt like a nickel and dime thing.. glad to see it's no longer the case! Finally, the whole $35 USB to serial cable with the warning on the webpage that you can't use an off the shelf one because it will damage the processor... doesn't sit well with me either. I know, $35, big freaking deal. It's just every step of the game it seems like BMS is nickel and dimeing me. At the end of the day if you add all of the stuff up you still come out cheaper than the vishnu, but it's the way the pricing is that just doesn't sit well with me. I know.. I said price wasn't an issue, but its the way the pricing is that quite frankly, pisses me off. Hopefully someone understands where I'm coming from.

[jpirelli]

If Shiv spent the time he spends posting marketing BS here on customer service, I'd switch back over to the Procede in a jiffy. When my Procede made my car misfire, I e-mailed Vishnu multiple times - didn't get a response for a week. I switched to the JB3 that week. Terry at BMS has no life and will respond to e-mails almost instantly. Customer service is important to me and that is why I chose the JB3 over the Procede.

[Turbo>NA]

These cars are already fast enough. Buy a lip

[yandy]

Originally Posted by pcmike

Not going to lie, I hear what you're saying. However, there are a few things that really kind of don't sit well with me when it comes to JB3. I know this is being nit picky, but honestly.. I feel like I'm being taken for an expensive ride for the PnP option. Can you honestly tell me the PnP harness cost ANYWHERE NEAR $230 to make? Sure $579 is still cheaper than $945, but when the pinout is only $349 I feel like I'm getting screwed. Also, I don't like that I need to buy that BT tool.. sure, I understand, it's more than just a code clearing device.. but I honestly will probably NEVER use it for anything but that. Another thing I was ticked off about was the fact that the JB3 (up until gen3, which admittedly I just realized there were different generations a few hours ago) required you to buy a chip burner to update to the latest maps (or to 2.0). I guess this is a moot point with any new purchase, but originally that felt like a nickel and dime thing.. glad to see it's no longer the case! Finally, the whole $35 USB to serial cable with the warning on the webpage that you can't use an off the shelf one because it will damage the processor... doesn't sit well with me either. I know, $35, big freaking deal. It's just every step of the game it seems like BMS is nickel and dimeing me. At the end of the day if you add all of the stuff up you still come out cheaper than the vishnu, but it's the way the pricing is that just doesn't sit well with me. I know.. I said price wasn't an issue, but its the way the pricing is that quite frankly, pisses me off. Hopefully someone understands where I'm coming from.

I can understand your point of view if you see it through, nickel and dime eyes. At one point yes, you needed a burner if you wanted to update it yourself.. but they were also offering update chips for pretty much free (- shipping) just send yours back afterwards (this is if I remember correctly). And there were/is always people that have the burner, that helped out by just burning other members chips with newer versions.. I did a few my self.

If a laptop manufacturer told you not to use any other power adapter than theirs; would you buy another and risk harming your LAPTOP? Yes, there's power transmitted through USB cables, at request yes, but if an of the shelf cable uses a pin that wasn't supposed to be used.. then what?

I don't think the PNP harness cost that much extra to make.. in parts.. but there's manufacturing charges, labor, things that need to be considered.. and basically just luxury of easier install. You paid the luxury tax when you bought your BMW..

I have no stake with BMS or the JB3, just trying to give a different point of view.

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself of otherwise. If you have no need for a BT tool, and would like to clear your codes, because it's a good idea running a tune, before dealer visits.. then Procede is right for you.. plain and simple....

but you talk about the way things are priced.. is it really worth the extra $300+ more than a JB3 if all you really care about is clearing a code? The same price for the BT Cable or even less now for the one vin version.. you get allot more.. and as others have said, it's really a peace mind knowing what's wrong with the car before taking it in...

Just my 2Cents.. take it how you will, and I hope you see for what it is and not as another BMS/JB3 FTMFW post ...

good luck, and no one will blame you for either way you choose.

[pcmike]

I understand what you're saying completely. I see the 1 vin BT tool as the biggest joke in my situation. The reason is.. my car is a 3yr lease. If I pay $120 for a 1 vin BT tool, in 2.5yrs its a throw away.. whether or not my car threw a code or not, the tool is a complete loss. But at the same time, I had to buy it anyhow (for peace of mind as someone else said).

You know what would really make my eyes light up... if BMS would offer the four PnP cables for their cost + small markup. Isn't that essentially all the $230 "PnP upgrade" is anyhow? Didn't Terry himself promote buying up a procede rev1 for $100 and using the same 4 PnP cables and getting a $130 cheaper PnP JB3? Sell me the stupid cables for a reasonable price and I can take 5mins to plug the stupid wires into the cables.