[5soko]

Interesting.. Been reading on it and this was the first time someone gave a reason for what it could be, the flange, and replacing the turbos.

Im really starting to think it has something to do with the different types of software and what they do with the wastegates and or the different type of turbo revisions...

I have come across so many different people across this board with the same issue after reading, i cant really ccome up with another explanation.

I have owned a N54 engine since 07 so i know all the noises and the feel of the car... Car power wise is right on par if not better, makes full boost, driveability is the same, doesnt smoke oil out the exhaust and the car did it since brand new. I even was reading one member had the turbos replaced and after a week the same sound was back. Really dont know what to make of it.


Anyways it would be nice for everyone to list there cars build date and software or if it was updated (date)/turbos if replaced

My car is a 11/1/09 build, stock turbos, 3K miles, 11/09 and 6/10 software same whine sound.
My other car is a 3/07 build, stock turbos, 30+K miles, 3/07 software.. No whine sound.

[zenmaster]

If the oil temp doesn't matter, no exhaust or intake mods, and whistle gradually becomes louder over time (months), I'd say it's probably due to bearings going bad. With this condition, you'll eventually need new turbos. Only thing I can think of is, for some reason, sometimes there is insufficient oil flow which causes damage.

[2kaccordocoupe]

Originally Posted by mechanixhorseman

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I have that exact same sound when the oil temps are low. Once the car warms up - all gone. Car feels strong tho, no power loss.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Dackz

It goes away because its drowned out by the motor/exhaust. I had my turbo's replaced. Diagnosis was too much play in some flange..not sure what that means, not wastegate rattle at all. But yea, something was loose, not air escaping or anything like that. Def not normal, whether or not it leads to turbo failure, I have no idea. Id get them replaced.

Lol......you haven't been following my posts.......these ARE the replaced turbos

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

Car power wise is right on par if not better, makes full boost, driveability is the same, doesnt smoke oil out the exhaust and the car did it since brand new. I even was reading one member had the turbos replaced and after a week the same sound was back. Really dont know what to make of it..

I think that was me......my newly replaced turbos took about a week or two before I started hearing a faint howling which subsequently developed into the siren noise.

But no impact on driveability at all and no loss of oil either.

Originally Posted by zenmaster

If the oil temp doesn't matter, no exhaust or intake mods, and whistle gradually becomes louder over time (months), I'd say it's probably due to bearings going bad. With this condition, you'll eventually need new turbos. Only thing I can think of is, for some reason, sometimes there is insufficient oil flow which causes damage.

I think you may be right......I think the bearing shaft assembly is most likely getting some play........a bad flange would be another issue altogether.

In my case, after they replaced my turbos....a couple of months later my HPFP was replaced and they found a small oil leak at the turbos - probably from a clamp not being tightened properly during the turbo replacement.

I wonder if that impacted the oil supply to the turbo bearings - which subsequently may have resulted in the new turbos whining just like the old ones?

[5soko]

IT seems checking out other forums and reading alot about this on here, it seems like ALOT of people have this, and ALOT of people just dont recognize or hear it.

Seems to be happening on newer cars aswell and some with updated turbos new software.

IlMA, what year is your 335i and what software or last time updated? I find it strange that so many peoples car's are doing it, my car has done it before i was even done breaking it in i realized it and that your car did it even afer the turbo replacement.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

IT seems checking out other forums and reading alot about this on here, it seems like ALOT of people have this, and ALOT of people just dont recognize or hear it.

Seems to be happening on newer cars aswell and some with updated turbos new software.

IlMA, what year is your 335i and what software or last time updated? I find it strange that so many peoples car's are doing it, my car has done it before i was even done breaking it in i realized it and that your car did it even afer the turbo replacement.

Hi 5soko:

I have a 2008 135i and the turbos were replaced by the dealer after one year (around 11K miles) and the car currently has about 24K miles with the same siren sound as before.

I have run both JB3 and Procede - but since I have stock exhaust....I keep boost at around 14 psi.

Software has never been updated from the original.

[Ilma]

I have a friend also with a 2008 135i and he has never modified it at all.

When he cold starts......I can hear the same siren sound very faintly.....but it is the same noise.

It goes away fairly quickly though after a few minutes of driving.

Mine takes the engine to get fully warmed up before it recedes into the background.

Funny thing is if I flog the car.....the noise seems to go away.

If I baby it....the noise sticks around.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I have a friend also with a 2008 135i and he has never modified it at all.

When he cold starts......I can hear the same siren sound very faintly.....but it is the same noise.

It goes away fairly quickly though after a few minutes of driving.

Mine takes the engine to get fully warmed up before it recedes into the background.

Funny thing is if I flog the car.....the noise seems to go away.

If I baby it....the noise sticks around.

Dang, didnt know the new ones did it, that sucks.

Yes, same thing, hammer on it and no noise. Just when under light accel and decel. Its literally like alternator whine through speakers but its not that obviously, haha.

I have 02/08 build and I know it was pre 29.2 but not sure if I got updated software or not. I dont hear this 'whirring' noise for hpfp and I didnt get it listed on my workorder either. So not sure if it got updated. If it did, car feels the same.

Power was never a problem with the noise, car felt fine. Just the noise...totally unbareable. Couldnt deal with it. Mine, to my ears, was still audible when warm, but others dismissed it. I know my car. I know what noises it should make and shouldnt, so I knew what to listen to.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Dackz

Dang, didnt know the new ones did it, that sucks.

Yes, same thing, hammer on it and no noise. Just when under light accel and decel. Its literally like alternator whine through speakers but its not that obviously, haha.

I have 02/08 build and I know it was pre 29.2 but not sure if I got updated software or not. I dont hear this 'whirring' noise for hpfp and I didnt get it listed on my workorder either. So not sure if it got updated. If it did, car feels the same.

Power was never a problem with the noise, car felt fine. Just the noise...totally unbareable. Couldnt deal with it. Mine, to my ears, was still audible when warm, but others dismissed it. I know my car. I know what noises it should make and shouldnt, so I knew what to listen to.

Sorry Dackz.....

What I meant was if I drive the car hard, I will not hear the whining noise for the rest of my drive. It seems to go away when the engine gets hot from getting on WOT a few times.

But you are absolutely right about it sounding like alternator noise - that's a good description.

When the dealer replaced mine they didn't find anything wrong, so I am curious what the bad flange thing is about.

Did you talk to the SA or the mechanic....because some of the SA's get lost in translation.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Sorry Dackz.....

What I meant was if I drive the car hard, I will not hear the whining noise for the rest of my drive. It seems to go away when the engine gets hot from getting on WOT a few times.

But you are absolutely right about it sounding like alternator noise - that's a good description.

When the dealer replaced mine they didn't find anything wrong, so I am curious what the bad flange thing is about.

Did you talk to the SA or the mechanic....because some of the SA's get lost in translation.

The SA, but he said that whats the tech found. My SA used to be a tech so he knows a bit more at least. I know they had to run some test to check specs and that was out of spec. Nothing about bearings or such but its perhaps that too, all I know is 700 miles on new setup and no noise. So, Im happy now. It would be good if more people would go get it fixed and chime back on a report. So far this doesnt seem tuned related, that it could happen to anyone as stock is having the issue too. Weird stuff.

[Bagelfast]

I think too many people have this to be a PROBLEM. Sound like normal turbo sounds. A failed turbo will make alot of noise and ALOT of whine!

Since there is no oil burning, no power loss, no oil leaking from the turbo pipes, it is probably new software that keeps the wastegates open and you can hear the turbos. Esp when you can hit your traget boost level without a problem and sustain this.

Too many guys are too jumpy lol.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

I think too many people have this to be a PROBLEM. Sound like normal turbo sounds. A failed turbo will make alot of noise and ALOT of whine!

Since there is no oil burning, no power loss, no oil leaking from the turbo pipes, it is probably new software that keeps the wastegates open and you can hear the turbos. Esp when you can hit your traget boost level without a problem and sustain this.

Too many guys are too jumpy lol.

I was whatever came from the factory in 02/08, before 29.2 for sure. Car still didnt even get the new software after new turbos. Its not a software thing. And yes, it MAY be somewhat normal noise for a turbo, but I bought a 335i with no whine, not a F-350 or cement truck with LOTS of whine. Its not a spooling sound, the pssshhhhttt noise it is not.

[5soko]

Like i said, My e92 335i did not do this, it had 3/07 turbos and software.
My 11/09 e90 335i has been doing it since basically i can remember.

I aswell would have thought it has to do something with the software and or the newer version turbos.

That or bmw is putting turbos in our cars that are just noisey now because there is NO tell tale signs of failuers happening.

I know exactly how a N54 sounds, and this newer N54 in my E90 def has the extra whine my old N54 never had. But being it is so common i cant say that it is anything to do with a turbo problem as there are no signs of it at all.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

Since there is no oil burning, no power loss, no oil leaking from the turbo pipes, it is probably new software that keeps the wastegates open and you can hear the turbos.

Well, I have a new car and latest software on top of that. 10 miles at delivery. Zero noise for weeks. Noise only started the morning after I went over 6000 RPM, after 1200 miles. So, no it's probably not the new software that keeps the wastegates open.

[Bagelfast]

I aswell have a new car and the latest software. i cant remember exactly when the noise started since i never paid attention exactly when, but it happened while i was stock and at low mileage that i start to pik up on it. I think during break in where i didnt even push the car past 4k rpm, but cant be sure.
I am even starting to think it isnt even the turbos sometimes but something else.
BMW has changed alot of things up the past few years, being turbos, wastegates, software controlling the turbos, and or the piping that goes to and from the turbo. W.e. it is has made the turbos whine a bit, if the turbos at a specific range of rpm. But this is in no way a turbo failure as was mentioned for numerous reasons and no sign for concern at this point.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

BMW has changed alot of things up the past few years, being turbos, wastegates, software controlling the turbos, and or the piping that goes to and from the turbo. W.e. it is has made the turbos whine a bit, if the turbos at a specific range of rpm.

That's true.

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

But this is in no way a turbo failure as was mentioned for numerous reasons and no sign for concern at this point.

Not sure what you mean by this. To be clear, a persistent whistle/siren sound, that gradually becomes louder over months, is a symptom of turbo failure. One should definitely be concerned about that type of whistle. That was my last car's only symptom, no power loss, no codes yet. BMW authorized the ($6K) repair only when the noise got obnoxiously loud.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Not sure what you mean by this. To be clear, a persistent whistle/siren sound, that gradually becomes louder over months, is a symptom of turbo failure. One should definitely be concerned about that type of whistle. That was my last car's only symptom, no power loss, no codes yet. BMW authorized the ($6K) repair only when the noise got obnoxiously loud.

I think the key here is that it gets progressively worse and becomes annoyingly/embarassingly loud.

Dealer replaced mine one year into the warranty for being somewhat noisy......but found nothing wrong with them.

The replacements are just as noisy now and I stopped worrying about it partly due to threads like these that illustrate how common this symptom really is.

If they are on their way out then the noise will become obnoxiously loud and as you say.....you won't need any codes to prove to the dealer that something is not right.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the car even if it is a little whiney.

No one else in the car seems to notice it when I mention it.

[Bagelfast]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

That's true.


Not sure what you mean by this. To be clear, a persistent whistle/siren sound, that gradually becomes louder over months, is a symptom of turbo failure. One should definitely be concerned about that type of whistle. That was my last car's only symptom, no power loss, no codes yet. BMW authorized the ($6K) repair only when the noise got obnoxiously loud.

The reason i think this for a few reasons.

It has become so common with newer N54's...So i looked into more specific turbo failures and sings of them..
Its either BMW has a shitload of failing turbos on there hands or its just going to be normal.
I mean i broke in my car 100% the right way and didnt beat on it, let it cool down and the whole 9 yards so its def isnt user prone, it would be a factory thing but either or wether you break the car in hard or soft the whine is there it seems.

Back to my reasoning:
Failing turbos that have a whine is from a bearing failing and the shaft moving from its center and the impellers now scrapping slightly aganist the turbo housing wall, this is where the whine starts to come from.

After a while it will start to scrape the wall more and the sound/whine become louder because the bearing will start failing even more.
Once the bearing starts to go, it will start to go and its not going to last long esp the more you push the car.

This bring up a number of things.

A.) the whine sound from a failing turbo will get louder with the RPMS but in our cases the sound seems to stop at low RPMS.
B.) a whing failing turbo will bring about oil leaking through, oil consumption, oil burning:
- which you would see black and white smoke at startup and or at warm idling or cold idling
- your oil level will decrease and you will need to add more and more oil
- those of us who do logs will not be able to hold, peak or build boost esp at higher RPM at all on a failing turbo, there would be tell tale signs somewhere.
C.) A failing turbo would usually be heard when even at idle off boost aswell. Most people's cars arent able to make this sound revving the car in neutral.

This is just a theory. But most of the signs of a failing turbo arent there.

Sry for the long post, but wanted to get some ideas across maybe someone can clean up or elaborate.

Originally Posted by Ilma

I think the key here is that it gets progressively worse and becomes annoyingly/embarassingly loud.

Dealer replaced mine one year into the warranty for being somewhat noisy......but found nothing wrong with them.

The replacements are just as noisy now and I stopped worrying about it partly due to threads like these that illustrate how common this symptom really is.

If they are on their way out then the noise will become obnoxiously loud and as you say.....you won't need any codes to prove to the dealer that something is not right.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the car even if it is a little whiney.

No one else in the car seems to notice it when I mention it.

Good info.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I think the key here is that it gets progressively worse and becomes annoyingly/embarassingly loud.

Dealer replaced mine one year into the warranty for being somewhat noisy......but found nothing wrong with them.

The replacements are just as noisy now and I stopped worrying about it partly due to threads like these that illustrate how common this symptom really is.

If they are on their way out then the noise will become obnoxiously loud and as you say.....you won't need any codes to prove to the dealer that something is not right.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the car even if it is a little whiney.

No one else in the car seems to notice it when I mention it.

Yup, the progressivly getting noisier thing was the concern from me. BMW should at least warn people of this, we cant all be the only ones with this issue, there has to be people out there that have no clue about forums and such that have it and have brought it in.

Ill just keep my ear open for the sound but so far so good. I may have a harder time hearing it now because my exhaust just sounds sooooooo good

[jguy]

Hi
My 320D has done the slight whine from since i had it at 48k, its currently at 57k with no issues apart from sounding like a police car for the first few miles, only really noticeable when the temperature outside hits below 10C really, traffic is extremely heavy in the morning so i doubt the engine is getting warm fast, i notice the noise goes away faster when theres no traffic. I keep off boost for about 2-3 miles on start and also leave it to idle about a minute before switching off and have done since day one. The whine is really present when the ambient is low, always there but alot quieter when warmed up, i don't think i noticed it until the cold months started so in summer it might have either been alot quieter or the aircon drowned it out
On a side note, how do i check oil temp on my car? its a 2006 E90.

[themyst]

My 335 with the dci has the faint siren sound my 135i had. With the stock airbox sounded fine.