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[pruettfan]

Originally Posted by Bavarian III

I think they intended it to be more of a security/convenience feature than to imply laziness.

I think you are right from a marketing point of view. Also with so many manufactuers dumping spares to help with weight reduction I suspect BMW decided this was better than giving someone a set of conventional tires and no spare like GM is these days. Having said that I hate RFT's but I can understand why the marketing guys think they are the way to go. My guess is the engineers were not so excited about them.

One more point is the tire companies give the factory huge breaks on price because so many folks will only use OEM tires. My guess is Bridgestone made them an offer they could not refuse to introduce them in their biggest selling and best rated car.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by chromisdesigns

I used to live there, it's bad all right. But some of that was just Barry paying off contractors by letting them dig up the same road over and over again. New York Avenue comes to mind as a prime example.

The problem here is, there really is NO city budget for road maintenance, as incredible as that seems. The only road work that gets done comes from State and Federal funds, if and when they are available. Driving here makes you long for Beirut!

Ahh, that sucks

But then again, so does NY Ave

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I think you are right from a marketing point of view. Also with so many manufactuers dumping spares to help with weight reduction I suspect BMW decided this was better than giving someone a set of conventional tires and no spare like GM is these days. Having said that I hate RFT's but I can understand why the marketing guys think they are the way to go. My guess is the engineers were not so excited about them.

One more point is the tire companies give the factory huge breaks on price because so many folks will only use OEM tires. My guess is Bridgestone made them an offer they could not refuse to introduce them in their biggest selling and best rated car.

I agree with you. To be honest, I actually never considered the weight reduction concept. But I understand, many folks do not know/care to know what other brands of rubber can wrap their wheels: they'll rely on their dealer for any and everything to do with their cars. I'm pretty sure most wouldn't be able to really tell a difference in ride quality/performance, anyway. And of course, the dealer is okay with that

[Magic Man]

Originally Posted by Bavarian III

I think they intended it to be more of a security/convenience feature than to imply laziness.

Actually, I think the main reason BMW went with the RFT is to lose the weight associated with having a spare tire and jack. They're doing all they can right now to show the best mileage possible for their lineup.

[Magic Man]

Originally Posted by pruettfan

My guess is Bridgestone made them an offer they could not refuse to introduce them in their biggest selling and best rated car.

Well, I think that's pretty short-sighted of BMW... to risk the reputation of their "biggest selling and best rated car" just to save a few bucks on the tires!

BTW, I HATE the fact that there's no spare tire, especially given all of the horror stories on this site about long delays in getting the RFT's from the dealer and their super-high cost!

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Magic Man

Actually, I think the main reason BMW went with the RFT is to lose the weight associated with having a spare tire and jack. They're doing all they can right now to show the best mileage possible for their lineup.

Yeah, I am seeing that more. I personally do not have a problem with the RFT's. For DD'ing, comfort and performance are just components of the ride. My 325i had a spare, and I think that ride actually seemed harsher than this one. Not to mention it sat on 17's.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Magic Man

Well, I think that's pretty short-sighted of BMW... to risk the reputation of their "biggest selling and best rated car" just to save a few bucks on the tires!

BTW, I HATE the fact that there's no spare tire, especially given all of the horror stories on this site about long delays in getting the RFT's from the dealer and their super-high cost!

I don't think that was the case. Just simply a new system implemented in the newer generation 3er's.

[cotmfk]

Good for you!

[Craig@SupremePower]

RFT's suck!

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Craig@SupremePower

RFT's suck!

And that is their best quality.

CA

[dcorn]

After test driving a few 335's, all with RFT, I see no problems with the ride and handling. Coming from a few mustangs with pretty modified suspensions, I'm very used to a stiff ride, especially on the crappy roads around Northern VA. Compared to all my other cars, the BMW is smooth as glass and for now I see no problems in keeping the RFT's on there. I'm sure I'll eventually run into other problems with the tires though (bubbles and pinch flats come to mind).

[slavke]

Originally Posted by dcorn

After test driving a few 335's, all with RFT, I see no problems with the ride and handling. Coming from a few mustangs with pretty modified suspensions, I'm very used to a stiff ride, especially on the crappy roads around Northern VA. Compared to all my other cars, the BMW is smooth as glass and for now I see no problems in keeping the RFT's on there. I'm sure I'll eventually run into other problems with the tires though (bubbles and pinch flats come to mind).

see its not so much that RFTs are worst than other low riding cars but how much better car rides on regular tires is what people are after. After trying regular tires then you really see why people hate RFTs in the first place, even jeremy clarkson.

[Chief009]

Originally Posted by alloy

My 335i is my dd and I couldn't take the slamming every time I hit an irregularity in the road be it a pothole or frost heave. The rft's were set at the pressure BMW said. I had Conti Extreme Contact DWS installed. After 2,000 miles, the BS rft's were wearing the inside of the tires. The ride is sooooo much smoother with the Conti's. It's like night and day. The turn in is not as sharp, but these tires grip and if I hit a frost heave in the middle of a turn, my 335i doesn't jump a half foot sideways anymore.
They were $774 from Tirerack (including shipping). But to have the rft's taken off (which was a BIG headache) and the Conti non-rft's installed was $196.00 and took 2.5 hours to do it.
But it's done and I am very happy with these tires!

On Monday I was driving home from work and hit a huge pothole in my 535i and as soon as I hit the darn thing I knew that I had a problem. I get home and see that my front left tire has a huge bubble on it. The Dunlop RFTs that come with the 535i are not bad at handling on a good surface, but they absolutely suck at taking bumps. I have read so many good things about the Conti DWS that I decided to switch. Problem is that the Tire Rack only has the rears (275/35/18) and so I had to get the fronts (245/40/18) from Discount Tire. They should go on this Sunday. I had a 335i (which I absolutely LOVED and still miss) and had the same problem with the RFT. They tramlined and were just loud when they hit a bump or small pothole. I replaced them with PS2s and it was such a big difference. I hope that the DWS don't dissapoint me though.

[DonMcCPA]

Will my RFT wheels work with convential non-RFT tires? Or do I need to buy new wheels if I get rid of the RFTs?

[fdsasdasdf]

Originally Posted by Christos

+1, I am one of the very few who really like RFTs. yes they run harder, but I love quick sharp turn ins and the high level of safety they provide. Every time I see someone on the side of a busy highway, cars zipping by at 60+mph, the family haphazardly milling about on the shoulder and the shoulder strewn with junk from all the crap people carry in their trunk today, just to get the spare tire out. I realize how lucky I am to have the RFTs.

This video sealed the deal for me about RFTs.

[hipnotic]

nice switch out of those

[J02 335i]

Originally Posted by DonMcCPA

Will my RFT wheels work with convential non-RFT tires? Or do I need to buy new wheels if I get rid of the RFTs?

No, you can use your stock rims.

[DenverJayhawk]

I have no issues with the ride or performance with my Potenza RFTs. The replacement cost sucks though. But I kind of look at it like premium gas. The car was designed to run on RFTs and burn premium. This is how the engineers setup the car when testing and benchmarking in order to return optimum performance. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say then know a hell of a lot more about suspension, chassis design and handling than any of the posters on this board.

[gary88]

Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk

I have no issues with the ride or performance with my Potenza RFTs. The replacement cost sucks though. But I kind of look at it like premium gas. The car was designed to run on RFTs and burn premium. This is how the engineers setup the car when testing and benchmarking in order to return optimum performance. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say then know a hell of a lot more about suspension, chassis design and handling than any of the posters on this board.

That's basically how I feel. Even on pothole infested Chicago roads I have no real problems with the runflats.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by josh06lau

nice switch out of those

Interesting thread bump...

[ctuna]

A lot of people are reporting about 10% better gas mpgs when they go to non runflats so it doesn't look like the reduced weight savings makes any sense.
I hardly ever see anybody on the side of the road with a flat these days.

[captainaudio]

Some opbservations:

1. The ride quality of RFTs is very dependent on the environment. I have had several friends who defended RFTs until they dove on them in NYC at which point they said "Oh, now I see what you mean". Also the "Pothole Explosion" issue is not restricted to urban areas like NYC, although it is much more common there, I have hit bumps in rural New England and on interstate off ramps that felt like the car was going to break in half

2. If you carry a spare tire you do not only need room for the spare you need room for the wheel and tire you took off the car.

3. Stiffer side walls, whether it is from RFTs, lower profile tires, or a combination of both will result in what some people here refer too as "crisper" turn in. This is because of a reduction in slip angle but this does not necessarily equate to better handling. There is an ideal slip angle on most cars and it the slip angle is too little or two great hadling will suffer.

4. In my experience RFTs do not give as mush warrning whey they are about to break loose as non RFTs. This can tend to make drivers overconfident. Let's face it, most drivers experience with a spin is the one they were in just before the crash. The ability to catch a slide requires experience and practice. It is far better for most driver if the tires give them sufficient warning before they breaks traction.

5. It is the job of the suspenison to isolate the car and the passengers from harsh road surfaces and to keep the contact patches on the road (that is why they are called "copntact patches"). I found the RFTS would bounce around on bumpy curves, loose contact with the road surface and cause the rear end to step out., This was very disconcerting and is not a characteristic of what I would consider to be a "safe" tire. I aned this phenonemon CTO (Crappy Tire Oversteer).

6. The fact that the RFTs can be driven on long enough to get the car out of harm's way is a huge plus for them. All other things being equal (or close to equal) there would be no RFT vs. Non-RFT argument. The problem is that all other things are not equal and the downsides of RFTs are unacceptaable to many people (including myself) to the point that we are willing to take a chance on getting stranded with a flat tire. The video in post #60 makes a good point for RFTS but does not address the disadvantages.

7. Another part of the problem is that the 3 Series suspension (at least the sport suspension) is poorly sorted out for driving on rough surfaces or over bumps. I suspect that BMW is aware of this fact and has been making changes, perhaps to the shock absorber calibration. I recently drobe a 2011 335is with RFTS and 19s and then drove my 335i with non-RFTs and 18s on the exact same roads. I found that the 2011 handled bumps much better. The combiation of the suspension design, low profile tires and RFTs does not add up to a car that is pleasant to drive on bad roads.

Bottom Line:

RFTs are, in theory at least, a very good idea, but the technology needs to be perfected.


CA

[linlaoboo]

Takashi,

If you commute 120 miles a day in central jersey trying to make it to work and home everyday. It's impossible to avoid every pothole in roads around here. I'd be driving like I'm drunk. We also get pounded with snow which makes more potholes.

+1 OP for dumping the RFTs, they are crap and I'm looking forward to some normal tires in about 10K miles. Changing a spare is not a problem for me on the highway. I takes me all but 10 minutes and I make sure I pull over where is most safe.