BMW Breakdown question...

toxicnerve · 04-02-2011, 04:43 AM

No idea mate?!

Don't some cars have the option of RFT/non-RFT from factory too?

ed335d · 04-02-2011, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

No idea mate?!

Don't some cars have the option of RFT/non-RFT from factory too?

I believe that you can specify non-rft on new build now.

ed335d · 04-02-2011, 04:50 AM

Found this on another forum:

Copied from UKFN (ANDY G) mot tester for ford

Tonight I attended what is known as an MOT seminar, basically the head honchos from VOSA go to each area, and talk about the MOT scheme, including changes to the test.

As I said in the thread about the new EU directive, as soon as I knew what was changing in the MOT test I would post it up. These changes are to be brought into the test on 1st January 2012, not before. So here goes...

Steering lock operation - Steering locks not engaging when the ignition key is removed will fail.
Engine warning lamps, brake fluid warning lamps, ESP lamps, EPB lamps illumination - ANY of the above illuminated indicating a fault will fail.TPMS (Tyre pressure monitoring systems) warning lamps - Again, if illuminated indicating a fault, will fail.Airbag/SRS lamp illumination - If this warning lamp is illuminated it will fail.
HID Headlamps - Now, a little grey area here. They will be included in the new test, and will fail if they prove to be outside of the specified conditions... but the conditions and reasons for rejections haven't been written/decided yet, so sit tight.
Wiring - Any wiring (loomed or otherwise) that is damaged, or fitted in such a way that could cause damage to said wiring, or other systems will fail.
Engine mountings - Engine mountings will be a part of the test. incorrect mounting, corrosion in a prescribed area etc will fail.
PAS (Power assisted steering) fluid level will be tested.
Rear doors must open in the new test. Previously (and currently), if the tester feels he can access the testable items in the rear (seatbelts, prescribed areas etc) without needing the doors open, they don't need to open. This will now be a failure.
13 pin towbar sockets - tested for correct operation using a plug in testing tool.
Inappropriate modifications or repairs - The wording on this is quite vague at the moment, but if a major component has been modified, and that modification/repair makes the vehicle dangerous or seriously weakens the original component, expect it to fail.
ANY ball joint dust cover - The small rubber boots over ball joints must be intact and free or splits, tears or holes, or it fails.
All CVJ gaiters will be tested - Currently, only the front outer] CVJ gaiters are tested. This new rule extends it to inner and outer, front and rear.
A catalytic converter missing WILL be a reason for failure, regardless of whether or not the emissions limits are met.
Fuel pipe chaffing or damage - Currently they only fail when they are leaking, this rule means that any chaffing or rubbing causing damage will fail.
The braking imbalance limit is lowered to 30% across all axles.
Vehicles built post July 2010 will have to have at least 58% braking efficiency to pass (currently it's 50% for a dual circuit braking system)
Insecure batteries will become a failure
The main beam warning lamp must illuminate with the main beam lamps
All light switches must operate the corresponding lights immediately. No tapping, or wiggling to make it work!

Remember, these changes will all be brought into testing starting from the 1st January 2012. The exact wording of each failure has yet to be released, but the above list is what was presented to us earlier this evening. I've posted all I know currently, so unfortunately I can't help with any questions .

Nothing about RFT's in there and Camskill's interpretation of the TPMS doesn't seem entirely accurate....

Hotcoupe · 04-02-2011, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed335d

Fuck me - that's a big old screw. Don't get supplied with washers too often!

I'd have taken the screw out, popped a rawlplug in and then put the screw back, job's a good un!

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Indeed!

Quick question, I just spoke to Camskill about new tyres and when I gave him the sizes he immediately asked about what car they were going on etc. When I said BMW he asked if it was currently on run-flats.

I told the chap yes and he started off by saying I need permission from insurance (already sorted) but went on to say that from 2012 tyres and the TPMS are going to form part of the MOT test and if your TPMS is not working or you have non-run-flats fitted to a car that was supplied OEM with run-flats it would be an MOT fail.

W.T.F. ??? Is there any truth to this and are there any MOT testers here who can confirm or deny?

It's rubbish!

I'd order online, you don't need to speak to numpties

ed335d · 04-02-2011, 05:03 AM

Commission directive 2010/48/EU – 5th July 2010.

Adapting to technical progress Directive 2009/40/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council on roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers.

Section 5.2.3. states in point (h) that there must be a visual inspection of the ‘air pressure monitoring system’ the reason for a failure of the system would be ‘air pressure monitoring system malfunctioning or obviously inoperative’.

This means that MOT centres will no longer be able to ignore TPMS that has been turned off or sensors that have failed.

This also means that garages and tyre bays will no longer be able to exchange a failed sensor for a rubber valve and use their diagnostic kit to turn the system off. Instead they will either need to deal with the sensor problem on site or send the business to the main dealership.

toxicnerve · 04-02-2011, 05:17 AM

Thanks for the information.

Regarding the changes to the MOT sections, what a load of bollocks! How do cars without TPMS survive? It's hardly an essential system.

Another example of legislation for legislation's sake. But then, if people are too fucking thick to check their tyre pressures regularly, soon enough ALL cars will have TPMS and it will be deemed an essential safety feature?

ed335d · 04-02-2011, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Thanks for the information.

Regarding the changes to the MOT sections, what a load of bollocks! How do cars without TPMS survive? It's hardly an essential system.

Another example of legislation for legislation's sake. But then, if people are too fucking thick to check their tyre pressures regularly, soon enough ALL cars will have TPMS and it will be deemed an essential safety feature?

All seems to be about valve-based TPMS and not ABS-based (of which I'm pretty sure all UK BMWs are).

If you take your car to an MOT with the TPMS warning light illuminated, you deserve to fail.

idnan · 04-02-2011, 05:24 AM

I thought our cars had flat tyre monitoring rather than tyre pressure monitoring?

I wasn't aware that we had TPMS sensors in the wheels, I was under the impression that the system relies on the difference between rolling resistance when the tyre is flat. I have non-RFT Michelin PS2s and had a flat tyre warning due to cracked 225m wheels.

ed335d · 04-02-2011, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idnan

I thought our cars had flat tyre monitoring rather than tyre pressure monitoring?

I wasn't aware that we had TPMS sensors in the wheels, I was under the impression that the system relies on the difference between rolling resistance when the tyre is flat. I have non-RFT Michelin PS2s and had a flat tyre warning due to cracked 225m wheels.

We don't have sensors - it uses the ABS system to measure differences in rotation speed. This means you get a warning, but it doesn't tell you on which corner.

toxicnerve · 04-02-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed335d

All seems to be about valve-based TPMS and not ABS-based (of which I'm pretty sure all UK BMWs are).

If you take your car to an MOT with the TPMS warning light illuminated, you deserve to fail.

Agreed. However, you could have a fault with the system itself but all your pressures are correct and holding tight.

In this event, how is it any different to a car without TPMS but you just manually checking your pressures?

toxicnerve · 04-02-2011, 06:02 AM

I just spoke to the chaps at Performance Wheels in Leicester (as mentioned in this Honest John link) and they had the following to say (I should clarify, I spoke to an individual and he did say he was not talking to me on behalf of the business but rather providing me with his interpretation of the information he had):

1. Things are still up in their as the rules have to not been set in stone yet.

2. He seemed to think that the new ruling would only apply to cars built after a certain date/when the legislation is brought into effect. So a car with TPMS built in 2010 would not be affected whereas a car built after Jan-2012 would be. He seemed to think that the new rules would not apply retrospectively.

3. Changing from RFT to non-RFT would (should?) not be an issue for the MOT.

04-02-2011, 04:43 AM	#45
toxicnerve Colonel 96 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	No idea mate?! Don't some cars have the option of RFT/non-RFT from factory too?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-02-2011, 04:50 AM	#47
ed335d Major General 144 Rep 6,912 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Surrey, UK iTrader: (3)	Found this on another forum: Copied from UKFN (ANDY G) mot tester for ford Tonight I attended what is known as an MOT seminar, basically the head honchos from VOSA go to each area, and talk about the MOT scheme, including changes to the test. As I said in the thread about the new EU directive, as soon as I knew what was changing in the MOT test I would post it up. These changes are to be brought into the test on 1st January 2012, not before. So here goes... Steering lock operation - Steering locks not engaging when the ignition key is removed will fail. Engine warning lamps, brake fluid warning lamps, ESP lamps, EPB lamps illumination - ANY of the above illuminated indicating a fault will fail.TPMS (Tyre pressure monitoring systems) warning lamps - Again, if illuminated indicating a fault, will fail.Airbag/SRS lamp illumination - If this warning lamp is illuminated it will fail. HID Headlamps - Now, a little grey area here. They will be included in the new test, and will fail if they prove to be outside of the specified conditions... but the conditions and reasons for rejections haven't been written/decided yet, so sit tight. Wiring - Any wiring (loomed or otherwise) that is damaged, or fitted in such a way that could cause damage to said wiring, or other systems will fail. Engine mountings - Engine mountings will be a part of the test. incorrect mounting, corrosion in a prescribed area etc will fail. PAS (Power assisted steering) fluid level will be tested. Rear doors must open in the new test. Previously (and currently), if the tester feels he can access the testable items in the rear (seatbelts, prescribed areas etc) without needing the doors open, they don't need to open. This will now be a failure. 13 pin towbar sockets - tested for correct operation using a plug in testing tool. Inappropriate modifications or repairs - The wording on this is quite vague at the moment, but if a major component has been modified, and that modification/repair makes the vehicle dangerous or seriously weakens the original component, expect it to fail. ANY ball joint dust cover - The small rubber boots over ball joints must be intact and free or splits, tears or holes, or it fails. All CVJ gaiters will be tested - Currently, only the front outer] CVJ gaiters are tested. This new rule extends it to inner and outer, front and rear. A catalytic converter missing WILL be a reason for failure, regardless of whether or not the emissions limits are met. Fuel pipe chaffing or damage - Currently they only fail when they are leaking, this rule means that any chaffing or rubbing causing damage will fail. The braking imbalance limit is lowered to 30% across all axles. Vehicles built post July 2010 will have to have at least 58% braking efficiency to pass (currently it's 50% for a dual circuit braking system) Insecure batteries will become a failure The main beam warning lamp must illuminate with the main beam lamps All light switches must operate the corresponding lights immediately. No tapping, or wiggling to make it work! Remember, these changes will all be brought into testing starting from the 1st January 2012. The exact wording of each failure has yet to be released, but the above list is what was presented to us earlier this evening. I've posted all I know currently, so unfortunately I can't help with any questions . Nothing about RFT's in there and Camskill's interpretation of the TPMS doesn't seem entirely accurate.... __________________ E92 M3, Jerez Black, Fox Red Novillo, 19'' M Double Spoke, folding mirrors, lumbar support, front seat heating, PDC, USB, DAB, EDC, Bluetooth, Logic 7, High Gloss Shadowline, big smile
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04-02-2011, 05:03 AM	#49
ed335d Major General 144 Rep 6,912 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Surrey, UK iTrader: (3)	Also this: Commission directive 2010/48/EU – 5th July 2010. Adapting to technical progress Directive 2009/40/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council on roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers. Section 5.2.3. states in point (h) that there must be a visual inspection of the ‘air pressure monitoring system’ the reason for a failure of the system would be ‘air pressure monitoring system malfunctioning or obviously inoperative’. This means that MOT centres will no longer be able to ignore TPMS that has been turned off or sensors that have failed. This also means that garages and tyre bays will no longer be able to exchange a failed sensor for a rubber valve and use their diagnostic kit to turn the system off. Instead they will either need to deal with the sensor problem on site or send the business to the main dealership. __________________ E92 M3, Jerez Black, Fox Red Novillo, 19'' M Double Spoke, folding mirrors, lumbar support, front seat heating, PDC, USB, DAB, EDC, Bluetooth, Logic 7, High Gloss Shadowline, big smile
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-02-2011, 05:17 AM	#50
toxicnerve Colonel 96 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Thanks for the information. Regarding the changes to the MOT sections, what a load of bollocks! How do cars without TPMS survive? It's hardly an essential system. Another example of legislation for legislation's sake. But then, if people are too fucking thick to check their tyre pressures regularly, soon enough ALL cars will have TPMS and it will be deemed an essential safety feature?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-02-2011, 05:24 AM	#52
idnan Lieutenant Colonel 79 Rep 1,508 Posts Drives: Alpine White 335i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Birmingham iTrader: (9)	I thought our cars had flat tyre monitoring rather than tyre pressure monitoring? I wasn't aware that we had TPMS sensors in the wheels, I was under the impression that the system relies on the difference between rolling resistance when the tyre is flat. I have non-RFT Michelin PS2s and had a flat tyre warning due to cracked 225m wheels.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-02-2011, 06:02 AM	#55
toxicnerve Colonel 96 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	I just spoke to the chaps at Performance Wheels in Leicester (as mentioned in this Honest John link) and they had the following to say (I should clarify, I spoke to an individual and he did say he was not talking to me on behalf of the business but rather providing me with his interpretation of the information he had): 1. Things are still up in their as the rules have to not been set in stone yet. 2. He seemed to think that the new ruling would only apply to cars built after a certain date/when the legislation is brought into effect. So a car with TPMS built in 2010 would not be affected whereas a car built after Jan-2012 would be. He seemed to think that the new rules would not apply retrospectively. 3. Changing from RFT to non-RFT would (should?) not be an issue for the MOT.
	Appreciate 0 Quote