[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Maybe you could ask coolingmist to give you a few FCB that are 100% meth compatible. I am sure they would be willing to give you a few tips. Also, coolingmist says not to use over 70/30 with their flow sensor. I guess they arent into false advertising.

I've done nothing to illicit the kind of response you are giving me. My point is that i don't know of any flow sensor, except the one from Aquamist, that has been proven in the field to be 100% meth compatible in long term use. Claims or no claims. Peace. It was actually reports of their flow sensor that pointed us towards Aquamist a few months back. Before that, we were having a hell of a time finding something durable in strong meth environments. And we looked at ALL other options.

[orionredwing]

Very nice results! Very exciting stuff. How in the world did they let you datalog on track? None of the clubs I run with allow laptops....

Just to reiterate again that some sort of upgraded radiator or oil cooler is required to run meth on track without overheating. See the track forum for more info on performance of different oil coolers.

Since I have track experience I don't need a non-meth baseline to understand the impact on track performance. Data here is exciting enough for me to jump on meth.

Unfortunately my AR oil cooler isnt sufficient to do the job, so I'll need to wait a bit before getting the kit

[zsapphire7]

Originally Posted by orionredwing

Very nice results! Very exciting stuff. How in the world did they let you datalog on track? None of the clubs I run with allow laptops....

Just to reiterate again that some sort of upgraded radiator or oil cooler is required to run meth on track without overheating. See the track forum for more info on performance of different oil coolers.

Since I have track experience I don't need a non-meth baseline to understand the impact on track performance. Data here is exciting enough for me to jump on meth.

Unfortunately my AR oil cooler isnt sufficient to do the job, so I'll need to wait a bit before getting the kit

Ive never had an issue... I kinda stuff it between the seat and the transmission tunnel and it doesnt move. noone can see it either?

What you say is absolutely right. You cant run higher boost on track period wihtout oilcoolers unless youre going for a single lap, although meth does cool down the car a lot and saves a ton of fuel.

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by orionredwing

Very nice results! Very exciting stuff. How in the world did they let you datalog on track? None of the clubs I run with allow laptops....

Just to reiterate again that some sort of upgraded radiator or oil cooler is required to run meth on track without overheating. See the track forum for more info on performance of different oil coolers.

Since I have track experience I don't need a non-meth baseline to understand the impact on track performance. Data here is exciting enough for me to jump on meth.

Unfortunately my AR oil cooler isnt sufficient to do the job, so I'll need to wait a bit before getting the kit

I think you will find your car to run a lot cooler with a good form of meth injection. One of the reasons these cars fall to sh$t on the track is due to how the DME responds to high IATs-- by pulling back heaps of timing (even when running race gas). Any tuner will tell you that running an engine with 1/2 as much ignition advance will put a big dent in the engine's thermal efficiency. Which means that less of the combustion energy is going into pushing the piston downwards and MORE of it is going into the exhaust and cooling system in the form of heat. This makes everything run much hotter than it should (exhaust gas, oil and coolant). Which obviously requires additional coolers. But if you keep the DME from running retarded spark advance in the first place, there may not be as much of a need to go overboard with cooling hardware.

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

One of the reasons these cars fall to sh$t on the track is due to how the DME responds to high IATs--

+1

[Joshboody]

Hey Calvin, have a question on the meth kit functionality.

I take it you are keeping the map 1 and map 2 functions, activating Meth on Map 2 when certain criteria are met. When Map 1 is selected is the meth completely turned OFF? meaning the boost activation switch is only active on map 2... so procede will be supplying power along with control??

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Hey Calvin, have a question on the meth kit functionality.

I take it you are keeping the map 1 and map 2 functions, activating Meth on Map 2 when certain criteria are met. When Map 1 is selected is the meth completely turned OFF? meaning the boost activation switch is only active on map 2... so procede will be supplying power along with control??

Currently, in PWM meth mode, meth with only flow when running Map2 or Map4. Since the Procede is controlling the solenoid directly, it's easy to do this. Eventually, we will provide additional PWM meth maps to switch between for those time you want to run more aggressively/conservatively.

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Hey Calvin, have a question on the meth kit functionality.

I take it you are keeping the map 1 and map 2 functions, activating Meth on Map 2 when certain criteria are met. When Map 1 is selected is the meth completely turned OFF? meaning the boost activation switch is only active on map 2... so procede will be supplying power along with control??

I was under the impression that map 1 and map 2 would be pump maps and then the meth map (map 4 I believe) would be for the PWM

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by Brey335i

I was under the impression that map 1 and map 2 would be pump maps and then the meth map (map 4 I believe) would be for the PWM

That's what I thought as well.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

Currently, in PWM meth mode, meth with only flow when running Map2 or Map4. Since the Procede is controlling the solenoid directly, it's easy to do this. Eventually, we will provide additional PWM meth maps to switch between for those time you want to run more aggressively/conservatively.

sorry, my question is more related to the boost activation switch... meaning if the pump/boost switch gets power from another source, then procede, you would activate the pump at certain boost no matter the map selected. This is NOT the case correct; activating the pump only happens in the "meth map" right?

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Brey335i

I was under the impression that map 1 and map 2 would be pump maps and then the meth map (map 4 I believe) would be for the PWM

Map2 is a meth enabled map. Basically the map you want to run if you are using race gas and methanol. No progressive mapping active. Map4 is the progressive map that "slides between map1 and map2 boost and IC% settings based upon meth flow.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

I think you will find your car to run a lot cooler with a good form of meth injection. One of the reasons these cars fall to sh$t on the track is due to how the DME responds to high IATs-- by pulling back heaps of timing (even when running race gas). Any tuner will tell you that running an engine with 1/2 as much ignition advance will put a big dent in the engine's thermal efficiency. Which means that less of the combustion energy is going into pushing the piston downwards and MORE of it is going into the exhaust and cooling system in the form of heat. This makes everything run much hotter than it should (exhaust gas, oil and coolant). Which obviously requires additional coolers. But if you keep the DME from running retarded spark advance in the first place, there may not be as much of a need to go overboard with cooling hardware.

Good stuff, but aren't the gains in thermal efficiency from optimal timing offset by the additional heat created by more powerful explosions from the cooler (and denser) intake charge?

Neil

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Good stuff, but aren't the gains in thermal efficiency from optimal timing offset by the additional heat created by more powerful explosions?

Neil

The explosion isn't necessarily more "powerful" with the additional advance. The advance dictates how much of that released energy is kenetic. The more of the energy used to pushed down on that piston, the less energy wasted as heat. Typically, 4 stroke recip engines operate with just ~30% efficiency. Meaning that 70% of the combustion energy is dissipated as heat through the exhaust and cooling system. And only 30% is used to do the important stuff. The less advance you run, the lower that number gets. Which means the 70% number gets bigger.

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

sorry, my question is more related to the boost activation switch... meaning if the pump/boost switch gets power from another source, then procede, you would activate the pump at certain boost no matter the map selected. This is NOT the case correct; activating the pump only happens in the "meth map" right?

The pump is activated by a pressure switch so it will purr along happily at the internal bypass pressure whenever you go above the boost threshold of 3-4psi. But you wont get any meth flow until the Procede tells the solenoid to open.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

The pump is activated by a pressure switch so it will purr along happily at the internal bypass pressure whenever you go above the boost threshold of 3-4psi. But you wont get any meth flow until the Procede tells the solenoid to open.

I know Calvin, but in a NON-Meth map will the switch/pump be activated??? Where is it getting power?

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I know Calvin, but in a NON-Meth map will the switch/pump be activated??? Where is it getting power?

The map selection is nothing to do with the meth hardware being armed. It's controlled by a physical (and adjustable) pressure switch. This pressure switch activates a relay which provides 12v to the whole methanol system assembly (pump, flow meter and solenoid). This happens regardless of what map you are running. For the sake of safety we wanted to have a physical contact switch in there. Safer than having the Procede do everything. The last thing we want is some uploading a wrong/corrupt map/firmware combination which accidentally arms the system and possibly grounds the solenoid output and hydrolock the engine. Hard to screw up when there is a spring loaded contact in there preventing anything bad from happening off boost.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

The explosion isn't necessarily more "powerful" with the additional advance. The advance dictates how much of that released energy is kenetic. The more of the energy used to pushed down on that piston, the less energy wasted as heat. Typically, 4 stroke recip engines operate with just ~30% efficiency. Meaning that 70% of the combustion energy is dissipated as heat through the exhaust and cooling system. And only 30% is used to do the important stuff. The less advance you run, the lower that number gets. Which means the 70% number gets bigger.

Appreciate the clear explanation. Thanks!

Neil

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

The map selection is nothing to do with the meth hardware being armed. It's controlled by a physical (and adjustable) pressure switch. This pressure switch activates a relay which provides 12v to the whole methanol system assembly (pump, flow meter and solenoid). This happens regardless of what map you are running. For the sake of safety we wanted to have a physical contact switch in there. Safer than having the Procede do everything. The last thing we want is some uploading a wrong/corrupt map/firmware combination which accidentally arms the system and possibly grounds the solenoid output and hydrolock the engine. Hard to screw up when there is a spring loaded contact in there preventing anything bad from happening off boost.

Gotcha thanks.

If we plan on NON-meth for awhile we should physically disconnect the system. Can you offer an on/off switch?

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Gotcha thanks.

If we plan on NON-meth for awhile we should physically disconnect the system. Can you offer an on/off switch?

No need to disconnect the system since the pump is more than happy running indefinitely at the bypass pressure. Especially when you are only activating it with boost. If you really want to unarm it, all you need to do is unplug one of the connectors going to the relay which is mounted next to the pump on the mounting bracket. But there really is no need to do this.