[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by clairvoyant

Just curious how much an ECU cost. Will it be cheaper just to order an ECU
for 325i Euro and simply swap it with that of the current 323i?

That would end up being more $$ for two reasons...

1. The new ECU costs more than the re-flash
2. After you get the new ECU, you have to have it aligned by the dealer with the Engine Immobilizer... you would have to pay out of pocket for the number of labour hours that takes (4-6 hours).

[Kenneth74]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

The engine in the 323i is ARTIFICIALLY DE-TUNED dude. That engine is supposed to make more power with the full tune, but BMW de-tuned it to fit it into a certain price point in various markets. This is a special situation that doesn't typically happen.

if that's the case... wouldn;t BMW make it cost prohibitive to upgrade even thru DIY... again if it can be done so easily... 325 wouldn;t be selling at all...
323 is also available in Japan... they are also funatical in car tuning... so far i have not seen any 323 with power of 325.... and these pple don;t think about cost...

but then again, i do keep an open mind... do update us of your progress..

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Kenneth74

if that's the case... wouldn;t BMW make it cost prohibitive to upgrade even thru DIY... again if it can be done so easily... 325 wouldn;t be selling at all...
323 is also available in Japan... they are also funatical in car tuning... so far i have not seen any 323 with power of 325.... and these pple don;t think about cost...

but then again, i do keep an open mind... do update us of your progress..

In Japan and other countries, the 323i did NOT get the 3-stage intake manifold... I don't know why!

[Slke46]

I don't know... if I wanted more power I would of bought the 328i or 335? The best thing I would suggest is free up some weight. That would be better IMO.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Slke46

I don't know... if I wanted more power I would of bought the 328i or 335? The best thing I would suggest is free up some weight. That would be better IMO.

and pay an easy 5-grand more for a 328i for the close to the same horsepower is you will likely get from this 900 bucks spent on a flash.

The easiest thing in the world is to tell somebody to buy a model higher up. WHy would you free up weight on a 323i? It only weighs 3250 lbs anyway... I'd rather add ponies and keep all the nice stuff in the car.

[clairvoyant]

I really hate to say that I am skeptic as well about your finding.
However, I compared my friend's Mexican 325i and my Canadian 323i by Vehicle Identification Numbers apple to apple using that http://www.realoem.com, they are the same but the ponies. Therefore I am 99% convinced that all I need is the flashed ECU.
If the weather permissible and I don't encounter any issue extracting
the ECU, I will ship that ECU on Monday next week to Turner Motorsport.

Originally Posted by epiphone3

and pay an easy 5-grand more for a 328i for the close to the same horsepower is you will likely get from this 900 bucks spent on a flash.

The easiest thing in the world is to tell somebody to buy a model higher up. WHy would you free up weight on a 323i? It only weighs 3250 lbs anyway... I'd rather add ponies and keep all the nice stuff in the car.

[dagjohnsen]

It should be possible since the 323i is detuned, meaning the original map is the reason why the engine does not deliver 218 hp.

I bought a 523i 2 years ago and was waiting for a tuner to give me the extra horsepower. But noone has bothered doing the job

So I changed car to another detuned model, and now I was lucky.

The 325d has the same engine as the 330d, just different map basicly.
Now I got close to 280 horsepower!

But be aware that these detuned engines have a little more juice than BMW claims. The 325d measures 217 hp instead of 197, my guess is that the 323i and 523i measures close to 195 horsepower in a dyno. So the difference you would feel with 218 horsepower would not be WOW.
And the difference is mostly above 4500 rpm.
My advice is just enjoy your beautiful engine, buy a nice exhaust and get some nice sound and your all set

If you want more power, buy a supercharger system or a new car.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by clairvoyant

I really hate to say that I am skeptic as well about your finding.
However, I compared my friend's Mexican 325i and my Canadian 323i by Vehicle Identification Numbers apple to apple using that http://www.realoem.com, they are the same but the ponies. Therefore I am 99% convinced that all I need is the flashed ECU.
If the weather permissible and I don't encounter any issue extracting
the ECU, I will ship that ECU on Monday next week to Turner Motorsport.

That's awesome, man. That means that by the end of next week we should know if this is gonna work or not... did you think of maybe dropping by a dyno and doing a pull before the swap and then after?

I don't think you should have any snags but I'll try and help you out if you need it!

[Slke46]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

and pay an easy 5-grand more for a 328i for the close to the same horsepower is you will likely get from this 900 bucks spent on a flash.

The easiest thing in the world is to tell somebody to buy a model higher up. WHy would you free up weight on a 323i? It only weighs 3250 lbs anyway... I'd rather add ponies and keep all the nice stuff in the car.

True... but then you would also get the Xenons, bigger rims and other nice little options with the car which would eventually add up to the 5 grand. You would also avoid the hassle of removing and installing the ECU, and downtime on the car while you wait for your ECU flash.

Weight reduction has always shown more effective than trying to upgrade your software on a N/A car. Getting lighter rims is one good way. Unless you find a tuner that can give you one or two reflashes with that price... man for $900 thats pretty damn expensive.

Your paying close to Procede guys pay for their systems and their gaining 70hp b/c its turbo. You gain 20 for $900 and its worth it??? Not sure about that...

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Slke46

True... but then you would also get the Xenons, bigger rims and other nice little options with the car which would eventually add up to the 5 grand. You would also avoid the hassle of removing and installing the ECU, and downtime on the car while you wait for your ECU flash.

Weight reduction has always shown more effective than trying to upgrade your software on a N/A car. Getting lighter rims is one good way. Unless you find a tuner that can give you one or two reflashes with that price... man for $900 thats pretty damn expensive.

Your paying close to Procede guys pay for their systems and their gaining 70hp b/c its turbo. You gain 20 for $900 and its worth it??? Not sure about that...

um... you would actually gain more like 45hp in this case... the 2006 323i has 174hp and the Euro 325i has 218... the software he is looking to get here is actually a tweak to the 325i software that brings up futher than the 218hp.

And by the way, all said and done, the 328i usually ends up being more the 5000 bucks more than the 323i... I was just using a round number before.

I can't believe that some people think 900 bucks for 45+hp gain on a NA engine is expensive!

[dagjohnsen]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

um... you would actually gain more like 45hp in this case... the 2006 323i has 174hp and the Euro 325i has 218... the software he is looking to get here is actually a tweak to the 325i software that brings up futher than the 218hp.

And by the way, all said and done, the 328i usually ends up being more the 5000 bucks more than the 323i... I was just using a round number before.

I can't believe that some people think 900 bucks for 45+hp gain on a NA engine is expensive!

Its probably 25 hp, you wont feel much of a difference.

When you tune a turbo car, you get a huge increase in midrange torque and the driveability is improved a lot if you like that kind of powercurve.

With a NA car you get the same powercurve and most of the increase in the top register, you wont feel much of a difference unless the tuner is able to move the redline 500 revs higher, in that case it can be worth it!

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

Its probably 25 hp, you wont feel much of a difference.

When you tune a turbo car, you get a huge increase in midrange torque and the driveability is improved a lot if you like that kind of powercurve.

With a NA car you get the same powercurve and most of the increase in the top register, you wont feel much of a difference unless the tuner is able to move the redline 500 revs higher, in that case it can be worth it!

In this case, the redline will move up 500 revs (from 6500 rpm on the 323i up to 7000 rpm) and the power gain really should be about 45 horses. It should also gain some low-end power as the torque peak for the Euro 325i occures at 2750 rpm and is like 10 ft-lbs more than the 323i peak at 3500 rpm.

face it, this is not your average software tune.

[clairvoyant]

I don't know where/how much dyno will cost in Ottawa area.
I'll do it the good old fashion by driving it on a closed circuit US 10th Mt Div training ground. If I can reach 242 km/hr assuming the ECU reflash is done properly, I am cool.
That way, I will only pay gasoline driving to Fort Drum, NY and buy cold ones for fellow GIs.

Originally Posted by epiphone3

That's awesome, man. That means that by the end of next week we should know if this is gonna work or not... did you think of maybe dropping by a dyno and doing a pull before the swap and then after?

I don't think you should have any snags but I'll try and help you out if you need it!

[Kenneth74]

actually, there may be more differences btw the 2 models than what is listed officially. Only the maker knows...

In terms of economies, doesn't it makes perfect sense to any workshops/tuners to spend a lot of dough to get this "ECU reflash" figured out. Its raining cash for them. $900 magic reflash vs 5 grand model up.
I'm sure many have tried... somehow , somewhere, something is missing...

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Kenneth74

actually, there may be more differences btw the 2 models than what is listed officially. Only the maker knows...

In terms of economies, doesn't it makes perfect sense to any workshops/tuners to spend a lot of dough to get this "ECU reflash" figured out. Its raining cash for them. $900 magic reflash vs 5 grand model up.
I'm sure many have tried... somehow , somewhere, something is missing...

actually I don't think many have tried because there aren't a lot of places where the 323i is sold... I am thinking the market is sizeable, but not huge. In the US, a lot of tuners didn't even know that a 323i existed until recently and a lot still don't.

[Slke46]

Tuners see turbo = money... rather than the need for a smaller market of N/A cars need for upgrade.

We need one tuner to take the stand and say this is what we have, this is what it does and here is the proof... the price is $xxx.

My 323 is already at 200hp and 20 more ponies won't do to much but make my car feel a little like my old 330. Still waiting for something... and we all know that Dinan is a waste of time!

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by Slke46

Tuners see turbo = money... rather than the need for a smaller market of N/A cars need for upgrade.

We need one tuner to take the stand and say this is what we have, this is what it does and here is the proof... the price is $xxx.

My 323 is already at 200hp and 20 more ponies won't do to much but make my car feel a little like my old 330. Still waiting for something... and we all know that Dinan is a waste of time!

The 200hp 323i is a bit of an unknown to as I can't remember if they made a Euro-spec version 325i of that mill... I think they did though with 231hp. I may be talking out of my ass and thinking of the Direct Injection 2.5 liter motor.

I think it will be a good idea to check out realoem.com to see if they made a Eurospec version of the N52N or N52KP 2.5 liter motor. If they did, that would mean that you could bump a 200hp 323i up to 231hp ... not a bad gain!

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

The 200hp 323i is a bit of an unknown to as I can't remember if they made a Euro-spec version 325i of that mill... I think they did though with 231hp. I may be talking out of my ass and thinking of the Direct Injection 2.5 liter motor.

I think it will be a good idea to check out realoem.com to see if they made a Eurospec version of the N52N or N52KP 2.5 liter motor. If they did, that would mean that you could bump a 200hp 323i up to 231hp ... not a bad gain!

I just looked on realoem.com. It looks to me like there was in fact a European 325i version of the N52N motor that is in the 2007 323i. And it was with Valvetronic still, not with DI.

The Canadian 200hp 323i also definately appears to have the 3-stage intake manifold whereas other national versions don't appear to. They even quote the additional DISA adjuster unit for "National Canada" version.

From this information it looks like 2007 and 2008 Canadian 323i owners should be able to improve their engine power from 200hp to 231+ hp with a software-only modification.

If you are interested in doing this, I have a good Canadian contact for you.

[clairvoyant]

The 2006 323i and the 2007 323i have the same components just different hp outputs.
Sorry dude, I am a skeptic. I take bus to work so I don't drive my car during the weekdays, therefore I volunteer to reflash the ECU. Plus, I use my company corporate UPS account to ship the ECU, so I technically have nothing to lose but time trying to figure out how to extract that ECU.

Are you saying, we can squish 231 hp out of these puppies just by reflashing the ECU?
Any link to substantiate your finding? Thank You

Originally Posted by epiphone3

The 200hp 323i is a bit of an unknown to as I can't remember if they made a Euro-spec version 325i of that mill... I think they did though with 231hp. I may be talking out of my ass and thinking of the Direct Injection 2.5 liter motor.

I think it will be a good idea to check out realoem.com to see if they made a Eurospec version of the N52N or N52KP 2.5 liter motor. If they did, that would mean that you could bump a 200hp 323i up to 231hp ... not a bad gain!

[Excellence]

I think our answer to the 323i is the AA SUPERCharger! That is IF they ever release one...

[Slke46]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

From this information it looks like 2007 and 2008 Canadian 323i owners should be able to improve their engine power from 200hp to 231+ hp with a software-only modification.

If you are interested in doing this, I have a good Canadian contact for you.

Send me your contact, interested in doing a project...

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by clairvoyant

The 2006 323i and the 2007 323i have the same components just different hp outputs.
Sorry dude, I am a skeptic. I take bus to work so I don't drive my car during the weekdays, therefore I volunteer to reflash the ECU. Plus, I use my company corporate UPS account to ship the ECU, so I technically have nothing to lose but time trying to figure out how to extract that ECU.

Are you saying, we can squish 231 hp out of these puppies just by reflashing the ECU?
Any link to substantiate your finding? Thank You

Actually the 2006 323i and 2007 323i do not have the same components! They even have a different moniker... 2006 323i has engine moniker "N52" and the 2007-2008 323i have the engine moniker "N52N."

When BMW updated to the new N52N engines, they did a number of changes:
- new engine management
- different pistons
- new exhaust valves with thicker valve stems
- and I think some other minor changes like the black engine cover, etc.

Another example of the N52N motors are those that are in the Z4 3.0si, X3 3.0si, and X5 3.0si. The 3.0si engine makes 262hp and is the N52N version of the 255hp N52 engine from the first E90 330i's. Confusing, I know.

As for getting 231hp out the 2006 323i... I don't think we will make it quite that high because the catalyst in the exhaust manifolds of our Canadian cars is a bit more restrictive than the one from the Eurospec 325i. However, the Euro Software tuners (like G-Power, for example) have gotten about 13hp additional out of the Eurospec 325i (218hp stock) with software tuning... this leads me to believe that our 2006 323i should make it to somewhere just above 220hp with our more restrictive exhaust. I would imagine that the 2007/2008 323i would be tunable to some higher power like 230hp with the European 325i N52N spec software.