[kaishang]

Originally Posted by Yoro35i

it's really simple...

Ditch the runflats as many of us here will/has . The coventrional tyres cost much less than RFTs.

Buy some cheap mid range winter tyres now and during the next 3 years or so...nov to march (5 months x3 = 15months in 3 years you would use them and 7 months for the summer tyres)

this is really the best method...and remember that you are investing tyres to use for the wet and cold winter not just a solution against snow . These tires greatly improves the safety of you and your passenger...can that justify your cost to buy some?

either listen to forum members advice or you'll learn the hard way.

I prefer to be better prepared for the safety of myself and those around me even it hurts my wallet.

Replacing RFTs with non-RFTs is a separate question. What are you going to do if you get a flat on non-RFTs?

Winter RFTs are available. You should compare the cost of winter vs summer RFT or winter vs summer non-RFT. Saying winter non-RFTs are cheaper than summer RFTs is irrelevant. Buying a Ford Fiesta on 13" wheels is also cheaper, but like arguing for non-RFTs, it is a different question.

Tyre tests also show that the benefit of winter tyres in 0C-10C wet conditions is marginal. In dry conditions it is also marginal, but marginal the other way: winter tyres are worse in the dry.

Cheap winter tyres will also offer inferior performance to your standard high performance summer tyres during the majority of British winter conditions: no ice, no snow and above freezing temperatures.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by ZimmerZimmer

I do notice in the rain now, that my E90's backend is really twitchy, very easy to get the arse end out, even with the DTC on...

Shouldn't be!
Have you got different tyres on the front to the rear?

[AlanYoro35i]

Originally Posted by kaishang

Replacing RFTs with non-RFTs is a separate question. What are you going to do if you get a flat on non-RFTs?

Winter RFTs are available. You should compare the cost of winter vs summer RFT or winter vs summer non-RFT. Saying winter non-RFTs are cheaper than summer RFTs is irrelevant. Buying a Ford Fiesta on 13" wheels is also cheaper, but like arguing for non-RFTs, it is a different question.

Tyre tests also show that the benefit of winter tyres in 0C-10C wet conditions is marginal. In dry conditions it is also marginal, but marginal the other way: winter tyres are worse in the dry.

Cheap winter tyres will also offer inferior performance to your standard high performance summer tyres during the majority of British winter conditions: no ice, no snow and above freezing temperatures

A wildly talked about contimobility kit is your answer.

i was talking in the respect that the OP said that Runflat are expensive and i merely provided a solution with regards of the OP thinking about achieving a lower overall Cost.

I am merely saying that he can instead of buying RFT in summer he should divert money to Non RFT during summer and he can buy some winter tyres now.

Yes you might argue that in the dry it does perform much worse than summer tyres but in UK we are entering wet and cold weather which these tyres should provide more of a advantage over the summers ones.

it's simply you just need to compromise , either keep to the good grip in dry condition on your summer runflat or scarfice the grip for safety of wet/cold and snowy condition but as you said it's marginal so its your call not mine.

we each have our own beliefs and please just because you think its no use for the london roads , i am not here to argue what is the best and im sure each personal experaicne is different driving in the winter.

[ZimmerZimmer]

People, is it tru what some people have told me....
" Change RFTs to Non RFTs and have an accident, you insurance wont pay out"
Sorry to change the subject abit, but im just considering some Winter tyres for sale that are second hand Continentals with at least 6.5mm-7mm all round ive been offered for £270.00
225 on the front
255 rears
seems like a good buy, but would hate for things to go tits up (pray to god this never happens to any of us) and Insurnace try to wiggle there way out

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ZimmerZimmer

People, is it tru what some people have told me....
" Change RFTs to Non RFTs and have an accident, you insurance wont pay out"

If you notify them and they have no issues, note it down against our policy, then we understand they are still covering us with insurance.

If we don't tell them, that could be different. Small print typically states we do need to declare any changes. So there is the possibility they have a get out clause.

For myself, they wanted confirmation that the tyres were to OEM load and speed ratings. May raise the rim issue, OEM for the model, etc., as that could be the modification they would have issues with.

HighlandPete

[Martin 335d]

This year will be my 4th winter in a row with a BMW, each year it has been a different car,

1st winter E46 M3 on 19" Summer tyres, i got stuck twice, but it wasnt a RWD issue, i got stuck where other cars had been stuck previously
2nd winter E91 335d on 18" MV3s and new non runflat summer tyres, we got stuck twice, once at the bottom of a hill on ice and the other half way up a hill on ice after coming up behind a stuck Fiesta, prior to this no issues
3rd winter E91 330d on 18" MV3s and new Michelin Runflats, first sign of snow the car got stuck, utterly useless, it was parked up for 3 weeks solid and never moved whilst the snow was here
4th winter E91 335d on 18" MV3s and winter tyres, we will see what happens this year

Personally i HATE run flat tyres, they are too hard at the best of times, and this issue is magnified in colder weather, in hoping that the 335d this year on winter tyres performs quite well

Oh and we live in NE Scotland where it can be quite bad weatherwise

[AlanYoro35i]

Originally Posted by ZimmerZimmer

People, is it tru what some people have told me....
" Change RFTs to Non RFTs and have an accident, you insurance wont pay out"
Sorry to change the subject abit, but im just considering some Winter tyres for sale that are second hand Continentals with at least 6.5mm-7mm all round ive been offered for £270.00
225 on the front
255 rears
seems like a good buy, but would hate for things to go tits up (pray to god this never happens to any of us) and Insurnace try to wiggle there way out

I just notified my insurance company about the change to winter tyres .. was asked if its amodification and I said no mate. I'm changing to winter tyres which you used them in winter and snowy cndition so then he said ok thereis no cost.

[lovemybmw]

Hey I also rang my insurance company to inform them that I now have winter tyres on, the asked me if they met BMW original requirements, I advised them that the tyre is exactly the same size, speed and load rating and also a run flat as per original spec and they advised that there is no charge and that I did the right thing by ringing and informing them.

I did ask what would happen if I didn't call them, they did advise that although there is no charge it is a material change and that the policy states such changes do require that I notify the insurer and that had I not done so and although them to update the policy details I.e re the car they hold on me then they may not pay out.

I also asked what type of changes to tyres could incur a cost as he said because all the spec of the tyres were exactly the same as original there was no cost, he advised that changes to tyre size, or wheel/rims/alloy size possibly would incur a cost or they may refuse to insure if deemed too much of a risk, postcode dependent etc etc.

I would always inform the insurance company as the amount we all pay for insurance and then on top of that for winter tyres the last thing we want is for them to wriggle out on technicality just because we were trying to be safer.

I did ask the chap that I had read an article stating that the A.B.I had said insurance companies would not refuse to pay out if we fit winter tyres and he said that the only time they would pay out for not informing of winter tyres is if tyres and rim met original spec I.e tyre size/rim size/run flat and we didn't inform the insurance company, as they would be unable to really justify it even though under policy we have an obligation to inform them. However, if the tyre does not meet exact spec then they can argue it is a contributing factor and therefore refuse to pay, not a risk worth taking.

In addition we also have to remember that whilst the insurance may not pay to fix our own cars, if the accident is your fault, they would also refuse to pay for the other party leaving you open to pay the other parties costs and these could be very very high, damage, excess, high car, personal injury, loss of earnings, simply for not informing and paying the difference? Not worth it in my opinion.

Apologies for the long email however I had a very nice lady on the phone when I rang them and she took her time to answer my questions and explain each point. You have been warned.

My insurance company is BMW insurance.

[lovemybmw]

P.s I spoke to a nice lady when I rang to inform them of winter tyres and a nice chap when I rang back to challenge re the A.B.I story I read.

I found the service from BMW insurance excellent.

[F31-340i]

Originally Posted by lovemybmw

Hey I also rang my insurance company to inform them that I now have winter tyres on, the asked me if they met BMW original requirements, I advised them that the tyre is exactly the same size, speed and load rating and also a run flat as per original spec and they advised that there is no charge and that I did the right thing by ringing and informing them.

I did ask what would happen if I didn't call them, they did advise that although there is no charge it is a material change and that the policy states such changes do require that I notify the insurer and that had I not done so and although them to update the policy details I.e re the car they hold on me then they may not pay out.

I also asked what type of changes to tyres could incur a cost as he said because all the spec of the tyres were exactly the same as original there was no cost, he advised that changes to tyre size, or wheel/rims/alloy size possibly would incur a cost or they may refuse to insure if deemed too much of a risk, postcode dependent etc etc.

I would always inform the insurance company as the amount we all pay for insurance and then on top of that for winter tyres the last thing we want is for them to wriggle out on technicality just because we were trying to be safer.

I did ask the chap that I had read an article stating that the A.B.I had said insurance companies would not refuse to pay out if we fit winter tyres and he said that the only time they would pay out for not informing of winter tyres is if tyres and rim met original spec I.e tyre size/rim size/run flat and we didn't inform the insurance company, as they would be unable to really justify it even though under policy we have an obligation to inform them. However, if the tyre does not meet exact spec then they can argue it is a contributing factor and therefore refuse to pay, not a risk worth taking.

In addition we also have to remember that whilst the insurance may not pay to fix our own cars, if the accident is your fault, they would also refuse to pay for the other party leaving you open to pay the other parties costs and these could be very very high, damage, excess, high car, personal injury, loss of earnings, simply for not informing and paying the difference? Not worth it in my opinion.

Apologies for the long email however I had a very nice lady on the phone when I rang them and she took her time to answer my questions and explain each point. You have been warned.

My insurance company is BMW insurance.

1 minor point, the BMW recommended winter tyre is not necessarily the same as the summer size, look here for each set..

http://www.bmw.de/de/de/owners/curre...figurator.html

A E91 330d winter setup is non staggered 17" 225/45 all round on, which is quite different to e.g. factory MSport sizes.

The insurance people have perhaps not given the full story, or perhaps are not aware - if you asked them if this smaller BMW size was ok, then they'd also have to agree yes, and also that the same size is not vital. Note some models have a choice of 16 or 17 inch winter wheels. Brake size is the reason bigger engine cars cant take 16s.

[lovemybmw]

The point I'm trying to make is to inform them and discuss, that way you give them the opportunity to consider all known facts and make a decision as to whether or not they would like to underwrite your policy. If you do not give them this opportunity then this is where the problems arise.

[F31-340i]

Originally Posted by lovemybmw

The point I'm trying to make is to inform them and discuss, that way you give them the opportunity to consider all known facts and make a decision as to whether or not they would like to underwrite your policy. If you do not give them this opportunity then this is where the problems arise.

Agree with this, but just wanted to make sure there was no confusion as to whether they have to be the exact same size. Some could have interpreted your conversation with your insurer that way.

[lovemybmw]

No they don't have to be exact size, just that they need to be on same sizes as the car left factory as new, in this situation if you changed to winters which were the same size as factory spec both wheels and tyres and forgot to tell insurer whilst the could refuse to cover they would be hard pushed to justify this.

The issue arises when there are different recommended tyre and wheel set ups based on model etc etc and going of just the handbook and manufacturers recomendationd where changing from summers to winters will mean a change, this is where you would need to inform them, I,e staggered set up or if the car left factory with 18inch wheels and you wish to put on 16/17, as even though these are recommended by the manufacturer the car did not leave factory like this and therefore need to inform insurer, there prob wont be a charge but it's about allowing the insurer to review the info you provide and agree to underwrite the policy.

[Falmouthboy]

Originally Posted by lovemybmw

No they don't have to be exact size, just that they need to be on same sizes as the car left factory as new, in this situation if you changed to winters which were the same size as factory spec both wheels and tyres and forgot to tell insurer whilst the could refuse to cover they would be hard pushed to justify this.

The issue arises when there are different recommended tyre and wheel set ups based on model etc etc and going of just the handbook and manufacturers recomendationd where changing from summers to winters will mean a change, this is where you would need to inform them, I,e staggered set up or if the car left factory with 18inch wheels and you wish to put on 16/17, as even though these are recommended by the manufacturer the car did not leave factory like this and therefore need to inform insurer, there prob wont be a charge but it's about allowing the insurer to review the info you provide and agree to underwrite the policy.

Yep - had to do this with 'More Than'. Our 130i comes with a staggered 18" setup, but you can't get winter tyres in the size. The BMW approved fitment is non-staggered 17s. As the wheels and tyres were supplied by BMW as the 'standard' winter fit, there was no extra charge. They also said that I didn't need to tell them in future when I changed as it is now on record that we use a winter setup in winter.