[Dr. G]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

top down affects drag coif - faster with top up...


BTW - i have the 15th quickest E93 in the world...any takers????

LOL, we were obviously joking!!

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Just...wow ! So much with everyone on this forum saying that a C63 will destroy a 335i

There are much faster C63's around.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by themyst

Another question, are you simply redlining every gear in DS mode? I've never actually seen you short shift.

I am simply redlining in every gear. For purposes of being consistent, the numbers are dead on repeatable. However, on the roll on, I should have entertained shifting before redline. Does anyone have any hard data about how much, if any, this would actually help in a 40-140 run?

Also, when you mentioned the weight savings, keep in mind my interior has pass seats removed, but this isn't some hostile, metallic tin can environment. The car is still perfectly quiet, and very comfortable. The car feels nimble, and gets great highway cruise mpg. I actually enjoy the extra cargo space. If I need to carry passengers, I will just drive the 335d instead. I just took these pictures of the interior tonight, so you can see my everyday driving configuration.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I am simply redlining in every gear. For purposes of being consistent, the numbers are dead on repeatable. However, on the roll on, I should have entertained shifting before redline. Does anyone have any hard data about how much, if any, this would actually help in a 40-140 run?

Also, when you mentioned the weight savings, keep in mind my interior has pass seats removed, but this isn't some hostile, metallic tin can environment. The car is still perfectly quiet, and very comfortable. The car feels nimble, and gets great highway cruise mpg. I actually enjoy the extra cargo space. If I need to carry passengers, I will just drive the 335d instead. I just took these pictures of the interior tonight, so you can see my everyday driving configuration.

A little OT, but I think I finally know why these cars flatline timing. The knock sensor feedback is key. By redlining every gear you're doing the right thing for maximum power

[turb0mik3]

So I am trying to figure this out...

You have stock catback & intercooler with weight savings. You used no meth and no nitrous and you pulled that on the white C63 that was at the SS Willow event?

I call MAJOR BULLSHIT...

and saying you would "know the outcome" if you raced my car, that is pretty bold of you to say... I am 100% with SIKH335... I talked with him and he is a great guy and a seriously powerful car. We were pretty even with him pulling on me on the upper mph's. With my weight savings on his car he would have been extremely quick. So without nitrous, both of our cars would wreck yours, so don't think you are tough shit by just showing a video when all logical inclinations says you are full of BS.

First, you have no where near the weight savings I have on my car. It doesn't matter if you have no passenger seat or whatever you want, you just don't. Second of all, redlining your car is not optimal for a straight line run. All our torque, and most of our HP SEVERELY dips at around 6500 rpms. I was shifting around that area throughout the track day.

There is just no possible way in hell you pulled that length on a C63 w/out nitrous. I mis-shifted on the black C63 or else it would have been dead even. I could have added my JB+ to push 440whp and killed the black C63 but I didn't think it was worth the time and it had started to rain again.

I don't have a problem with going in a straight line, but when you go around bragging about how your car is fast in a straight line and start calling other people out, that is weak. Especially when there is no way in hell you did that without nitrous.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

So I am trying to figure this out...

You have stock catback & intercooler with weight savings. You used no meth and no nitrous and you pulled that on the white C63 that was at the SS Willow event?

I call MAJOR BULLSHIT...

and saying you would "know the outcome" if you raced my car, that is pretty bold of you to say... I am 100% with SIKH335... I talked with him and he is a great guy and a seriously powerful car. We were pretty even with him pulling on me on the upper mph's. With my weight savings on his car he would have been extremely quick. So without nitrous, both of our cars would wreck yours, so don't think you are tough shit by just showing a video when all logical inclinations says you are full of BS.

First, you have no where near the weight savings I have on my car. It doesn't matter if you have no passenger seat or whatever you want, you just don't. Second of all, redlining your car is not optimal for a straight line run. All our torque, and most of our HP SEVERELY dips at around 6500 rpms. I was shifting around that area throughout the track day.

There is just no possible way in hell you pulled that length on a C63 w/out nitrous. I mis-shifted on the black C63 or else it would have been dead even. I could have added my JB+ to push 440whp and killed the black C63 but I didn't think it was worth the time and it had started to rain again.

I don't have a problem with going in a straight line, but when you go around bragging about how your car is fast in a straight line and start calling other people out, that is weak. Especially when there is no way in hell you did that without nitrous.

When I saw the video of your run with the P31 C63, right around the 0:16 mark it appeared you shift bogged when the car fell flat on its face. Accurate?

Remember you're comparing an automatic to a manual, the gearing is a bit different.

The powerband for a highway roll on a C63 to a 335i auto are quite a bit different as well. I'm estimating they started that run in the 50-60mph range, which isn't really where the C63 shines. Take it from a 40 roll where they can start IN their powerband they will walk and keep on walking. When I ran a OE tuned C63 from 60, I would pull like you did (full weight at that) then he would reel me in and continue walking all the way up to 160 mph. It's all about the details.

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by themyst

When I saw the video of your run with the P31 C63, right around the 0:16 mark it appeared you shift bogged when the car fell flat on its face. Accurate?

Remember you're comparing an automatic to a manual, the gearing is a bit different.

The powerband for a highway roll on a C63 to a 335i auto are quite a bit different as well. I'm estimating they started that run in the 50-60mph range, which isn't really where the C63 shines. Take it from a 40 roll where they can start IN their powerband they will walk and keep on walking. When I ran a OE tuned C63 from 60, I would pull like you did (full weight at that) then he would reel me in and continue walking all the way up to 160 mph. It's all about the details.

Yup, I did have a shitty 2nd shift that probably would have won me the race.

But keep in mind I have a 3.46 LSD so my "optimal" pull speed is from 5000rpm (40mph) or so, where I am boosting 16psi. Also note that the 3.46 climbs through the gears faster than a stock 3.08, which is why I was able to pull so quickly on the C63 and then my shitty shifting lost me the race, haha (which I don't care, whatevs). If I was powershifting I probably would have beaten that black C63.

It just makes no sense how his mods with stock differential could allow him to do that...

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

Yup, I did have a shitty 2nd shift that probably would have won me the race.

But keep in mind I have a 3.46 LSD so my "optimal" pull speed is from 5000rpm (40mph) or so, where I am boosting 16psi. Also note that the 3.46 climbs through the gears faster than a stock 3.08, which is why I was able to pull so quickly on the C63 and then my shitty shifting lost me the race, haha (which I don't care, whatevs). If I was powershifting I probably would have beaten that black C63.

It just makes no sense how his mods with stock differential could allow him to do that...

You do know that the auto final drive is also 3.46 right? LSD doesn't mean squat when he doesn't have traction issues in a straight line. the stock fmic isn't that big a deal in these colder temps either. He will fall flat on his face meth or not in warmer temperatures though.

Were u running GIAC stage 2 race or pump?

edit-btw, hotrod IS running meth. Dual CM7/10 with his JB4 maxed out on boost.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I am simply redlining in every gear. For purposes of being consistent, the numbers are dead on repeatable. However, on the roll on, I should have entertained shifting before redline. Does anyone have any hard data about how much, if any, this would actually help in a 40-140 run?

Also, when you mentioned the weight savings, keep in mind my interior has pass seats removed, but this isn't some hostile, metallic tin can environment. The car is still perfectly quiet, and very comfortable. The car feels nimble, and gets great highway cruise mpg. I actually enjoy the extra cargo space. If I need to carry passengers, I will just drive the 335d instead. I just took these pictures of the interior tonight, so you can see my everyday driving configuration.

Heh, so the rear seats and backs are out too? Along with that foam cushioning underneath? LOL I just realized you don't have a glovebox either

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by themyst

You do know that the auto final drive is also 3.46 right? LSD doesn't mean squat when he doesn't have traction issues in a straight line. the stock fmic isn't that big a deal in these colder temps either. He will fall flat on his face meth or not in warmer temperatures though.

Were u running GIAC stage 2 race or pump?

edit-btw, hotrod IS running meth. Dual CM7/10 with his JB4 maxed out on boost.

Well exhaust and intercooler does make an HP difference. JB4 maxed boost is what? 21+?

I did not know autos were 3.46, interesting. And I didn't say LSD to prove I have more power or anything, just if people were like WTF you have 3.46?

And btw, Josh (Tightie) with a 650whp Gintani M3 only beat that white C63 by 1 car (which he has proof). Given he had traction issues, but still.

So Hotrod's car car can keep up with a 650whp Gintani M3 from 40-130?

Ya, ok...

If all this was with nitrous I have no problem being ok with it, but it is not.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

Well exhaust and intercooler does make an HP difference. JB4 maxed boost is what? 21+?

I did not know autos were 3.46, interesting. And I didn't say LSD to prove I have more power or anything, just if people were like WTF you have 3.46?

And btw, Josh (Tightie) with a 650whp Gintani M3 only beat that white C63 by 1 car (which he has proof). Given he had traction issues, but still.

So Hotrod's car car can keep up with a 650whp Gintani M3 from 40-130?

Ya, ok...

exhaust is more for weight savings than anything else. You could cut the secondary cats and resonator for freer flow on the stock exhaust for a similar effect via $100 muffler shop special but I'm not convinced it does anything. Plenty of people cracking 420-430whp through the stock exhaust on stock turbos.

Aftermarket FMICs are good for suppressing heatsoak which becomes evident on sustained high speed pulls going north of 120-130 MPH even on meth, not necessarily a power adder, more insurance to keep the power you already have. Like I said before, hotrod will fall flat on his face up against other cars when he runs in hotter temps, meth or not.

For reference, I've done 424whp on a Dynojet with the old Procede V4 at 18.5 psi peak in 91 degree ambient temperatures through the stock 135i exhaust, which is more restrictive than the 335i setup. What do you think I would have netted in terms of extra HP if I had an aftermarket catback? 2, maybe 3 whp? Negligible at best.

You gotta understand, weight trumps power down low. Up top, power trumps weight. Which is why cars like the E60 M5 will run mediocre trap speeds in the quarter mile but pull like monsters up top.

Can't comment on the supercharged E9X M3's though. Aren't they trapping in the high 120's, low 130's?

I've done hundreds of highway pulls ranging from Celicas with nitrous to SRT-8 Jeeps with blowers to C63's. I've seen and heard about it all, and one thing I've learned is to never be surprised because anything can happen in the real world.

[SIKH335]

Mflow5 this guy is full of it he told me that I'm pissed because I have not done anything with my car. We both have put thousands in our car and this guy has just unbolted his seats. He has been running nitrous since the he bought the cars and now he wants to call us all out cause he has the little man complex. I say race me get your car inspected and race me.
This is exactly why I said don't bother posting video this guy is the type of troll that comes on and hates.

[dbjb]

Interesting and entertaining thread.

Didn't know HR stripped that much out of his car. That does open the possibility of these 1/4 times. That said, I think it's time to put an end to all this by taking up Sik on his challenge.

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by themyst

You gotta understand, weight trumps power down low. Up top, power trumps weight. Which is why cars like the E60 M5 will run mediocre trap speeds in the quarter mile but pull like monsters up top.

I totally agree, so I don't know how a car with a tune, meth, and stock exhaust put down those numbers needed to get a c63. I don't care if you crank up the boost to 25...

[SIKH335]

Myst Mflowt5 has crazy weight savings. His car is gutted with aftermarket wheels and lighter exhaust. I will bet he is putting down more WHP than Hotrod and has a lighter curb weight. But yet this mystery car is pulling on alll of us. Right

Originally Posted by themyst

exhaust is more for weight savings than anything else. You could cut the secondary cats and resonator for freer flow on the stock exhaust for a similar effect via $100 muffler shop special but I'm not convinced it does anything. Plenty of people cracking 420-430whp through the stock exhaust on stock turbos.

Aftermarket FMICs are good for suppressing heatsoak which becomes evident on sustained high speed pulls going north of 120-130 MPH even on meth, not necessarily a power adder, more insurance to keep the power you already have. Like I said before, hotrod will fall flat on his face up against other cars when he runs in hotter temps, meth or not.

For reference, I've done 424whp on a Dynojet with the old Procede V4 at 18.5 psi peak in 91 degree ambient temperatures through the stock 135i exhaust, which is more restrictive than the 335i setup. What do you think I would have netted in terms of extra HP if I had an aftermarket catback? 2, maybe 3 whp? Negligible at best.

You gotta understand, weight trumps power down low. Up top, power trumps weight. Which is why cars like the E60 M5 will run mediocre trap speeds in the quarter mile but pull like monsters up top.

Can't comment on the supercharged E9X M3's though. Aren't they trapping in the high 120's, low 130's?

I've done hundreds of highway pulls ranging from Celicas with nitrous to SRT-8 Jeeps with blowers to C63's. I've seen and heard about it all, and one thing I've learned is to never be surprised because anything can happen in the real world.

[Royal Flush]

In for the .

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

I totally agree, so I don't know how a car with a tune, meth, and stock exhaust put down those numbers needed to get a c63. I don't care if you crank up the boost to 25...

Pretty simple actually, he's running more boost than your GIAC stage 2 (race or not). He has an automatic, you have a manual. There is no driver error involved. Your weight reduction IMO would be comparable considering you're running heavier aftermarket wheels (judging from the video) compared to his Kosei K1's on all four corners.

I'll give you an example, the OE tuning C63 I regularly run with my auto 335i I also ran with my 135i two years ago when he was still STOCK with the same mods hotrod has, jb3, dci, dps, meth. The great equalizer here was the manual tranny. I would win or lose by 1 car length depending on the run, against a STOCK C63. I am sorry, but the N54 and manual transmission simply isn't a good combination for repeatable results in a roll-on, all dependent on if you bog or not.

Have you considered adding a WOTbox for flat-foot shifting? I know one who is running Cobb Stage 2/3 race alpha like I am running it to good results. It may help you become much more consistent. Not a bash, just a suggestion.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by SIKH335

Myst Mflowt5 has crazy weight savings. His car is gutted with aftermarket wheels and lighter exhaust. I will bet he is putting down more WHP than Hotrod and has a lighter curb weight. But yet this mystery car is pulling on alll of us. Right

Details, details. Kosei K1's weigh 16 lbs a wheel. What do those 19" aftermarket wheels he's running weigh? Unsprung weight accounts for a LOT.

He's also running a GIAC stage 2, which should be slightly down on power than a fully maxed out JB4, all else equal.

The great equalizer? The manual transmission.

No one's denying hotrod's results are... questionable. But I wouldn't call it impossible. We don't know ALL the details. We know his car's gutted, we know he's running a ton of meth, we know his wheels on all four corners are as light as it can get. There's still something missing, but I'm not sure what. It's not the bottle though.

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by themyst

Details, details. Kosei K1's weigh 16 lbs a wheel. What do those 19" aftermarket wheels he's running weigh? Unsprung weight accounts for a LOT.

He's also running a GIAC stage 2, which should be slightly down on power than a fully maxed out JB4, all else equal.

The great equalizer? The manual transmission.

I'm not an idiot. You think I put a roll bar in my car and run 19s on the track? LOL. My 18" TRMotorsports are 18.5 and 20. So weight shaving is still on my side.

Perhaps MS109 and adding my JB+ would help my cause. I just still think it is hard to believe he held on THAT much to the C63.

[SIKH335]

Let's see If he will run me I've seen his boost max our at 20psi and I will pull my seats like him and rape the same boost out. If you have listened to his car in his video it sounds like shit. The problem is that he will not submit to an inspection Dyno and then a run.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

I'm not an idiot. You think I put a roll bar in my car and run 19s on the track? LOL. My 18" TRMotorsports are 18.5 and 20. So weight shaving is still on my side.

Perhaps MS109 and adding my JB+ would help my cause. I just still think it is hard to believe he held on THAT much to the C63.

Yeah, I know bout those TRMotorsports, not much of a difference there compared to the K1's, thanks for the clarification.

The manuals simply are nowhere as consistent as the autos, which is the biggest problem. I've owned a manual 135i and an auto 335i, and in a roll-on race I'll take the 335i all day long, even with the extra 200 lbs. Like I said, go for the WOTbox, it will help you become much more consistent shift to shift.

The JB+ may help you a bit 5000-5500 RPM in terms of peak boost, but further up top when the GIAC stage 2 tapers off, you won't see much in terms of gains. The JB+ is simply a glorified boost additive, so if your fueling can support the extra boost, it'll be a noticeable bump in power.

This is where I wish everyone had the ability to log the timing, knock sensor feedback and corrections of all 6 cylinders. I learned a LOT about how meth impacts the car by monitoring knock activity, timing, and corrections on all six cylinders. It appears all the tunes, JB, Procede, even GIAC with BT tool are handicapped in that regard. It's a shame too, there's a lot of good data there. It appears 850-950 ml/min of meth flow is what this car needs to support maximum power on stock turbos.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by themyst

A little OT, but I think I finally know why these cars flatline timing. The knock sensor feedback is key. By redlining every gear you're doing the right thing for maximum power

You, are actually technically thinking along the lines of what I have been thinking. Very logical. That is also why I would never short shift on nitrous.

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

So I am trying to figure this out...

You have stock catback & intercooler with weight savings. You used no meth and no nitrous and you pulled that on the white C63 that was at the SS Willow event?

I call MAJOR BULLSHIT...

and saying you would "know the outcome" if you raced my car, that is pretty bold of you to say... I am 100% with SIKH335... I talked with him and he is a great guy and a seriously powerful car. We were pretty even with him pulling on me on the upper mph's. With my weight savings on his car he would have been extremely quick. So without nitrous, both of our cars would wreck yours, so don't think you are tough shit by just showing a video when all logical inclinations says you are full of BS.

First, you have no where near the weight savings I have on my car. It doesn't matter if you have no passenger seat or whatever you want, you just don't. Second of all, redlining your car is not optimal for a straight line run. All our torque, and most of our HP SEVERELY dips at around 6500 rpms. I was shifting around that area throughout the track day.

There is just no possible way in hell you pulled that length on a C63 w/out nitrous. I mis-shifted on the black C63 or else it would have been dead even. I could have added my JB+ to push 440whp and killed the black C63 but I didn't think it was worth the time and it had started to rain again.

I don't have a problem with going in a straight line, but when you go around bragging about how your car is fast in a straight line and start calling other people out, that is weak. Especially when there is no way in hell you did that without nitrous.

Hey I don't really have a problem with you, it is the immature Sikh who tried calling me out be trying to challenging me at an event he was going to, or else somehow my results weren't legit. Didn't matter that I had to work that day, and it was my Son's birthday. Either I went, or he would discredit my results??? Angry sore loser?

Important thing to note here: I never go out and flat out call someone a liar, or personally attack them first...If you look at the history of Sikh, he likes to incite these arguments. Just look at what happened with Dzenno being banned. He actually had more technical information and merit than this newbie Sikh could ever hope to offer. And..Dzenno also happens to have one of the fastest 335i BMWs around...get the pattern here?

And look at what a weak argument Sikh has by saying we cant compare or discuss cars when you aren't even at the same event, same day. So does this mean that everyone else that goes to a dragstrip other than SAC shouldn't discuss timeslips and ETs comparing them to the ETs of other 335i BMWs run at different tracks? And then lets say the same car that walked Sikh at his Sac dragstrip, races another BMW at another dragstrip and cannot walk him like he did to Sikh's car? How can that not be a totally relevent comparison???? Sikh is really starting to sound like a sore loser. I hope you don't become one too. I don't know who you are, and you probably just got caught up in the argument that Sikh started a while back. So again..don't need to be offended. And number two..I do use meth. And lastly, no nitrous used in the run with the C63. Why would I use nitrous to trap 123mph??? Others have done 123mph without nitrous, and so does my car. Ask anyone who uses a JB4 about how instantly the timing will drop with any nitrous usage. I just tested tonight, 11.9 at 123.8 mph..and will post the log for those that are interested. Still not back in the 124mph range, but getting there. Again, with nitrous, the Vbox will read 129mph-131mph.

Originally Posted by themyst

You do know that the auto final drive is also 3.46 right? LSD doesn't mean squat when he doesn't have traction issues in a straight line. the stock fmic isn't that big a deal in these colder temps either. He will fall flat on his face meth or not in warmer temperatures though.

Were u running GIAC stage 2 race or pump?

edit-btw, hotrod IS running meth. Dual CM7/10 with his JB4 maxed out on boost.

Yup..themyst pays attention to detail, and is more interested in learning than being a sore loser.

Originally Posted by themyst

Heh, so the rear seats and backs are out too? Along with that foam cushioning underneath? LOL I just realized you don't have a glovebox either

No, seats are removed, glovebox is still intact (and not empty). Yes, there is no way you are going to drop 180-200 lbs with just the R/F seat out.

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

Well exhaust and intercooler does make an HP difference. JB4 maxed boost is what? 21+?

I did not know autos were 3.46, interesting. And I didn't say LSD to prove I have more power or anything, just if people were like WTF you have 3.46?

And btw, Josh (Tightie) with a 650whp Gintani M3 only beat that white C63 by 1 car (which he has proof). Given he had traction issues, but still.

So Hotrod's car car can keep up with a 650whp Gintani M3 from 40-130?

Ya, ok...

If all this was with nitrous I have no problem being ok with it, but it is not.

Again, we have been through this before. Plenty of dyno queen cars don't perform up to par on the road. We do a lot of testing around here. I test with one of the fastest M3s (DLSJ5) out here. I also timed a uncorked supercharged ESS M3 out here. He had a passenger and his DRs in the car. I think his best trap was 117-119 mph. 13 sec ETS. The C63 here acheived mid 12's ET this morning (due to his factory tires). I pretty much always run in the high 11's. So the strength of my car would have been a 1/4 mile race against that C63, but that wouldn't be fair. So we ran his race.

Also, how much weight savings do you have on your car? Is there something else significant that can be done easily besides the basic seats, wheels, etc?

Originally Posted by dsbj

Interesting and entertaining thread.

Didn't know HR stripped that much out of his car. That does open the possibility of these 1/4 times. That said, I think it's time to put an end to all this by taking up Sik on his challenge.

I really don't care about what Sikh thinks, or do I care to waste myh time paying attention to what he wants. I didn't really know the C63 guy very well, but as he is a fellow motorhead interested in testing and making his car faster, we are going to be doing more and more runs. Maybe I will just have him inspect the car and vouch that there is no nitrous in the car. If Shiv is in the area, he can inspect my car before I click off a 123mph + qtr mile run in front of him. I have no intention of going out of my way to do anything for Sikh. If he is down, he can inspect my car, and then we run against each other..plain an simple. I am not going to make an appointment to go to some shop to inspect my car. This is all for fun, and a hobby, not some kind of formal interrogation/inquisition. I make a couple technical posts, SIKH gets mad. We finally agree not to post in each other threads, and so far I would say I have made only a couple of posts in his threads, and he has made dozens in mine! Guy doesn't know when to let it go....

Originally Posted by Mflowt5

I totally agree, so I don't know how a car with a tune, meth, and stock exhaust put down those numbers needed to get a c63. I don't care if you crank up the boost to 25...

I don't crank up the boost to the max. I will post my log to show you. Furthermore, you may find your car will run slower with too much boost. Another interesting thing I find fascinating is I believe my car may run faster on 91/meth than 100 octane. I have heard higher octane fuel may actually have LESS energy content.

Originally Posted by SIKH335

Myst Mflowt5 has crazy weight savings. His car is gutted with aftermarket wheels and lighter exhaust. I will bet he is putting down more WHP than Hotrod and has a lighter curb weight. But yet this mystery car is pulling on alll of us. Right

HAHA...Mr. 5 used to test with us. He had GIAC also. He can attest to how fast my car is without nitrous, and he has been at the track with me. I have always had some of the highest traps with minimal mods. When using the nitrous its a whole another league of performance. Why would I be running someone so damn close and not pulling on him if I had nitrous. That run would make no sense.