[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

I think its better for the dyno to be STD corrected since thats what the other competitors use, TT/Procede/RD Sport. That should make comparing dyno readings better off since theres less error?

I don't know what other peoples motives are but, I just wanted to see the difference between the two (std, uncorrected). I believe as you max out the turbos the ability of the ECU to compensate for atmospheric conditions decreases and the number become closer (which is probably why Shivs are fairly close to the uncorrected numbers along with the weather where he dynos) but, it would be nice to see what the uncorrected numbers are to verify that. I would like to see them with every tuners dyno graphs.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

I think its better for the dyno to be STD corrected since thats what the other competitors use, TT/Procede/RD Sport. That should make comparing dyno readings better off since theres less error?

for that to be the case, the other tuners would also have to do it in the same run conditions, because STD correction isnt designed for MAP based forced induction cars with ECU's that have built in compensations

shiv posted his uncorrected numbers when they were requested, and the turbo tuner dynos showed a correction factor of .96... meaning that the uncorrected numbers would have actually been higher

either show uncorrected numbers, or your calculated correction factor... that way there is no question as to what the REAL numbers were for that day, in those conditions.

[DrewKo]

Yes, not only that, but I really care less about the dyno of the new map, in contrast to comparing the dyno of the old map versus the dyno of the new map taken on the same day, same conditions, etc., etc., so you can understand the percentage difference. Posting a dyno as AA did in this thread and then basing claims for SV AA poster boy and Sparky troll to latch onto is just wasted text. My two cents.

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

Its good that these companies are competitive. Why bash one another?

[e.n335]

It's great to see AA back in the game. This will result in having excellent products available for all customers, regardless if they choose to have an AA Xede or PROcede sticker on it.

There are pro's and con's on both of the products. Time will tell what the better overall package will be.

Good times

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by eugen.niederreiter

It's great to see AA back in the game. This will result in having excellent products available for all customers, regardless if they choose to have an AA Xede or PROcede sticker on it.

There are pro's and con's on both of the products. Time will tell what the better overall package will be.

Good times

Exactly, only time will tell which product is better. As WalkedU once said we're all 335 owners and should help eachother out...
But I am really suprised that AA stepped it up a notch and has their v1.5 with so much power while only having a few months of play with the Xede. Just shows how much knowledge they have....


As always it comes down to Price, upgradeability and free goodies.

AA - $1200 comes with free map switch (switch between stock and full power)

Procede - $1365 with a price hike coming up soon and no map switch.

Switch could cost $1 or $100 but just the fact that AA throws it in for free makes me glad that my tuner doesnt cheap out... (AA sent me the switch more than a month after I purchased my Xede )

Hats off to AA for v1.5! Cant wait for your next update which I know will be even more wilder

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

AA - $1200 comes with free map switch (switch between stock and full power)

Procede - $1365 with a price hike coming up soon and no map switch.

$1200 is the June Special. I thought that was the regular price all the time.

$1365 includes a free code reader. Of course you can delete the free code reader and the price drops to $1300.

[bnj]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

for that to be the case, the other tuners would also have to do it in the same run conditions, because STD correction isnt designed for MAP based forced induction cars with ECU's that have built in compensations

shiv posted his uncorrected numbers when they were requested, and the turbo tuner dynos showed a correction factor of .96... meaning that the uncorrected numbers would have actually been higher

either show uncorrected numbers, or your calculated correction factor... that way there is no question as to what the REAL numbers were for that day, in those conditions.

.96 correction - does that mean that uncorrected just assumes some conditions? Which in this case were better than in reality?

I don't think ECU can compensate for the heat. By boosting more, even more heat is generated and the power may even decrease. Especially when the boost has been increased from stock level and tuned to get the most out of the turbos already. Increasing boost at high temp would be an attempt to induce detonation.

I have been thinking that ambient temp affects fi engines more because of intercooler. NA is not dependent on the cold air at the same way - no intercooler receiving ambient air. IAT temps have a huge impact in a turbo car.

Although the correction would not be enough to compensate for the warm air at the intercooler in fi it woulb be best to look at the corrected figures. They must be more correct. Uncorrect is always incorrect.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Active Autowerke

9 times out of ten customers will get better #'s than we do due to the horrible humidity and high temps in Miami. We will post SAE #'s , I personally prefer STD #'s because it is what happened on that day. We will post SAE on Monday that is no problem at all. Anything to satisfy the consumer

If they want to play that game just show up at the shop at 2am for a few uncorrected runs.

[grkm3]

The ecu adapts for altitude,not 100 degree mugy humid florida air.

go Dyno a 335 in the middle of winter with 20D cold dry air and have it uncorrected.Dyno the same car in 100D hot humid air and see what that ecu can do.10 out of 10 times the car will make less power in the hot muggy air.Theres no way the ecu will adapt to the temps and make more power,if anything it will make less.

you guys are taking the dynos way to far.

with these new numbers I wish I bought that 335 I test drove twice lol

I deceded to go for a used 04 E55 AMG with 33k miles for 44k.Any one with a proced/excede wana run jk

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by bnj

.96 correction - does that mean that uncorrected just assumes some conditions? Which in this case were better than in reality?

I don't think ECU can compensate for the heat. By boosting more, even more heat is generated and the power may even decrease. Especially when the boost has been increased from stock level and tuned to get the most out of the turbos already. Increasing boost at high temp would be an attempt to induce detonation.

I have been thinking that ambient temp affects fi engines more because of intercooler. NA is not dependent on the cold air at the same way - no intercooler receiving ambient air. IAT temps have a huge impact in a turbo car.

Although the correction would not be enough to compensate for the warm air at the intercooler in fi it woulb be best to look at the corrected figures. They must be more correct. Uncorrect is always incorrect.

Originally Posted by grkm3

The ecu adapts for altitude,not 100 degree mugy humid florida air.

go Dyno a 335 in the middle of winter with 20D cold dry air and have it uncorrected.Dyno the same car in 100D hot humid air and see what that ecu can do.10 out of 10 times the car will make less power in the hot muggy air.Theres no way the ecu will adapt to the temps and make more power,if anything it will make less.

you guys are taking the dynos way to far.

with these new numbers I wish I bought that 335 I test drove twice lol

I deceded to go for a used 04 E55 AMG with 33k miles for 44k.Any one with a proced/excede wana run jk

the car makes great stock uncorrected numbers in high heat/humidity
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028

see my proof

[wahoo]

Competition is good for the marketplace...and the consumer. I'm just a schmuck with a tired 328i. Looking forward what the market brings to bear. I surmise this will all be moot once someone starts with larger turbos..

[nj1266]

Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain

not happy with that A/F ratio either.

Why not? This car runs direct injection and one of the benefits is the ability to run lean AFRs. As long as the car is not knocking and the boost is not too high (these cars run 10-14 psi), then this should be fine. A lean mixture aids in turbo spool up. It also helps reduce knock by burning the mixture faster and more effeciently.

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by nj1266

Why not? This car runs direct injection and one of the benefits is the ability to run lean AFRs. As long as the car is not knocking and the boost is not too high (these cars run 10-14 psi), then this should be fine. A lean mixture aids in turbo spool up. It also helps reduce knock by burning the mixture faster and more effeciently.

+1

I think people forget that. Direct injection allows much leaner AFR's. For instance the optimum AFR for a standard fuel injected FI motor is 12.5. Direct injection lets you run quite a bit leaner without increased knock. 14:1-15:1 is pretty standard for direct injection, I've seen them run as high as 18:1 without knock.

[grkm3]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

the car makes great stock uncorrected numbers in high heat/humidity
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028

see my proof

Rix,I don't have the time to read it all now,but Ill take a look later.All I was saying is cars that dyno in FL make more power everywhere else.The hot muggy air down there just sux for making good numbers.

Take your car and dyno it in Ohio and then take it in 105 D miami weather and see how much power it makes.

That is the whole reason the correction factors where made up.Shiv dynos his cars in an area where the regular wheather is close to SAE standards,hence the reason why it dosnt really make a difference if he switches the standards.

I could be wrong,Maybe BMW found a way around heat soak

[bnj]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

the car makes great stock uncorrected numbers in high heat/humidity
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65028

see my proof

Browsed that quickly. Only reasoning for (that I noticed) as to how dme compensates for heat was Turbotko's mention that it cannot since that would push the applied dot in compressor map to an unefficient location. I don't think DME compensates. It does not make sense. Bmw would throw out the built-in safety margin at the worst possible desert heat? For what? What is your reasoning?

[timtech]

What I wonder about is how did AA get the extra HP? They don't have the extra inputs, is the boost being turned up?

Since everyone has been asking for Procedes V2.0 method, maybe we can ask AA.

Care to share the secret sauce?

[all8up]

I may have missed this, but is there a boost increase with this new found power?

[DrDomer]

I'm a Procede owner, but glad there is competition. It keeps Shiv working hard on improving what we have. Competition is ALWAYS good. Hope to see more improvements on the Xede. If it were to ever be obviously superior to the Procede, I would switch. Only those insecure about being "beaten" would irrationally look for faults in other's products. Of course, we're gonna want to ask questions. How'd ya do it?

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by timtech

What I wonder about is how did AA get the extra HP? They don't have the extra inputs, is the boost being turned up?

Since everyone has been asking for Procedes V2.0 method, maybe we can ask AA.

Care to share the secret sauce?

This has nothing to do with the gains but please remember we have more extra inputs that we will ever need. You were mislead with good marketing.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by bnj

Browsed that quickly. Only reasoning for (that I noticed) as to how dme compensates for heat was Turbotko's mention that it cannot since that would push the applied dot in compressor map to an unefficient location. I don't think DME compensates. It does not make sense. Bmw would throw out the built-in safety margin at the worst possible desert heat? For what? What is your reasoning?

why do I need reasoning when the proof is staring me in the face!

My stock auto car made 280whp in ~95 degree humid heat...in OHIO (not high elevation) with UNCORRECTED NUMBERS... when we used SAE or STD correction, the numbers were up in the high 300's! on a stock car!

the only logical explination is that the car made great stock numbers in crappy conditions, and therefore the SAE or STD correction artificially infalted the numbers to compensate for the power that it "thinks" was lost...

I dont agree with it anymore than you do, but IT HAPPENED.

check it out for yourself, here is my runfile, and a free version of the dyno software:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=48

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by grkm3

Rix,I don't have the time to read it all now,but Ill take a look later.All I was saying is cars that dyno in FL make more power everywhere else.The hot muggy air down there just sux for making good numbers.

Take your car and dyno it in Ohio and then take it in 105 D miami weather and see how much power it makes.

That is the whole reason the correction factors where made up.Shiv dynos his cars in an area where the regular wheather is close to SAE standards,hence the reason why it dosnt really make a difference if he switches the standards.

I could be wrong,Maybe BMW found a way around heat soak

I did dyno my car, in close to the same conditions as this AA dyno (~95 degrees) and I got artificially high numbers when STD or SAE correction was in place... thats my whole point.

Here, do the calculations for yourself...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=48