[Rips335iCoupe]

Originally Posted by catdog

Have you driven a new x-drive 3 or 5 series? If not then you can't make that blanket statement. Audi 4-wheel drive ---> terminal understeer

Yes, I drove a 328xi... before I ordered my 335i. Let me ask you ... when you think of AWD, does BMW come up before Audi?? NO!

I know some of you have xi's, and I'm not dogging AWD BMW's ... I'm just saying Audi's are better .... they have been doing Quattro systems forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro...rive_system%29

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....0&print_page=y

http://www.autoworld.com/news/Audi/Quattro_system.htm

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

OK I hear all these statements about Xi's launching harder. Where are the 60' numbers?

They will show up.

But just going on a tangent and using common sense, would you want one wheel launching the car or have the XI which at stop / low speed has a default preset to send some torque to the front wheels.

Looking at silly figures like 0-60, BMW acknowledges the XI goes is faster from 0-60 than the RWD, this is all to do with better traction at launch.

[catdog]

Hi Rips, i think i know something about that since i learned to drive on the 1982 Audi Ur-Quattro 200HP Euro-Spec rally champion at 17, effectively the first quattro turbo car, so yeah i know Audi has been doing quattros for a much longer time and that is a very weak argument when comparing their respective merits. I guess BMW might as well not even try since they will never catch up huh?

The 328xi does not have the same power/torque of the 335 so probably not a good comparison.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

Yes, I drove a 328xi... before I ordered my 335i. Let me ask you ... when you think of AWD, does BMW come up before Audi?? NO!

I know some of you have xi's, and I'm not dogging AWD BMW's ... I'm just saying Audi's are better .... they have been doing Quattro systems forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro...rive_system%29

Quattro is better for what?? Sure mechanical systems give instant response but go look at the various videos where the RS4 gets crushed at high speeds caused by the parasitic losses caused by the same permanent full-time mechnical system.

I love the Xi system because it shuts off at high speed and the car behaves like a RWD car.

[Rips335iCoupe]

I know I'm not going to change the minds of xi lovers, so just read the articles I provided and learn. :rocks:

[Chowbow]

I'm not a proponent of one over the other honestly. Audi can make a better one or BMW can make a better one. In the end it comes down to which has the better performance and feel. Would be interested in seeing somebody's numbers soon and a good review from somebody who has driven both.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

I know I'm not going to change the minds of xi lovers, so just read the articles I provided and learn. :rocks:

Here why don't you skool yourself on these vids.....why does the mighty RS4 get crushed by a 5000+ pound truck and an older M5 with less power?

Quattro.....

Nice system for the 80's.....and even a neat marketing campaign but it sucks for high speed and it sucks for the track.

[Rips335iCoupe]

[QUOTE=T Bone;1311407]Nice system for the 80's.....and even a neat marketing campaign but it sucks for high speed and it sucks for the track.

Your right .... now read this.

A brief recounting of Audi's quattro racing success would include the 1983 World Rally Driver's Championship, the Driver's and Manufacturers Championships in 1984, the 1987 Safari Rally in Kenya, and the U.S. Pikes Peak Hill Climb Championships in 1985, 1986 and 1987. In 1988, the production-car based Audi 200 quattros swept the Trans-Am championship for both drivers and manufacturers against purpose-built race cars, while the Audi V8 quattros took the German Touring Car Championship in 1990 and 1991. Proving its merit once again in 1996, in all seven countries where Audi lined up on the grid (Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Australia, Belgium, South Africa and Spain), it won the Super Touring Car title with the Audi A4 quattro. They even enjoyed a one-two finish in the Touring Car Grand Prix to complete the 1996 season. So successful, in fact, has been the quattro system that from 1998 onwards, the World Motor Sport Association (FIA) has forbidden four-wheel drive in their events as an "unfair advantage.

[catdog]

Rips, check this out http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/xdrive.htm
Will provide some numbers as soon as can get accelerometer

[Rips335iCoupe]

You guys are too much ... I have not said anything bad about BMW AWD .... but all you have done is degrade Audi. No use talking about this .... good luck with your xi's!

[catdog]

[QUOTE=Rips335iCoupe;1311415]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Nice system for the 80's.....and even a neat marketing campaign but it sucks for high speed and it sucks for the track.

Your right .... now read this.

A brief recounting of Audi's quattro racing success would include the 1983 World Rally Driver's Championship, the Driver's and Manufacturers Championships in 1984, the 1987 Safari Rally in Kenya, and the U.S. Pikes Peak Hill Climb Championships in 1985, 1986 and 1987. In 1988, the production-car based Audi 200 quattros swept the Trans-Am championship for both drivers and manufacturers against purpose-built race cars, while the Audi V8 quattros took the German Touring Car Championship in 1990 and 1991. Proving its merit once again in 1996, in all seven countries where Audi lined up on the grid (Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Australia, Belgium, South Africa and Spain), it won the Super Touring Car title with the Audi A4 quattro. They even enjoyed a one-two finish in the Touring Car Grand Prix to complete the 1996 season. So successful, in fact, has been the quattro system that from 1998 onwards, the World Motor Sport Association (FIA) has forbidden four-wheel drive in their events as an "unfair advantage.

They also banned them for other reasons such as the monster Group B vehicles they had spawned, technology evolves you are just not giving bmw's current solution a fair shake. I think it will help everyone to learn more about it and get some numbers and perhaps one of the car magazines will take this up and maybe test the 335xi versus the S4 on a dry/wet track and maybe test the 335i and 335xi similarly. In the end each car serves a purpose and we should be glad we at least have the choice.

[Rips335iCoupe]

[QUOTE=catdog;1311425]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

They also banned them for other reasons such as the monster Group B vehicles they had spawned, technology evolves you are just not giving bmw's current solution a fair shake. I think it will help everyone to learn more about it and get some numbers and perhaps one of the car magazines will take this up and maybe test the 335xi versus the S4 on a dry/wet track and maybe test the 335i and 335xi similarly. In the end each car serves a purpose and we should be glad we at least have the choice.

I like the BMW system, but I don't really need a xi in Arizona. My moms BMW has the system, and I like it. All I said is I like the Audi system better. Maybe that will change one day!

[catdog]

ok rips group hug, back to work...
tell you what i would not be getting an xi in AZ either, you want to trade places?
now to a real discussion: pc vs. mac....

[Rips335iCoupe]

Originally Posted by catdog

ok rips group hug, back to work...
tell you what i would not be getting an xi in AZ either, you want to trade places?
now to a real discussion: pc vs. mac....

I don't know if you want to trade places right now ... we still have that summer heat!

Now in January, when the Super Bowl will be in Glendale, AZ .... you will really be begging to trade places!

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by T Bone

I love the Xi system because it shuts off at high speed and the car behaves like a RWD car.

I was not aware of that. Now, if it could only jettison the extra 200lbs the Xi system adds!

Seriously, someone needs run a 335i sedan vs. a 335xi sedan and put it on YouTube. From a dig and from a roll, would be nice to see how the two compare.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by Rips335iCoupe

Yes, I drove a 328xi... before I ordered my 335i. Let me ask you ... when you think of AWD, does BMW come up before Audi?? NO!

I know some of you have xi's, and I'm not dogging AWD BMW's ... I'm just saying Audi's are better .... they have been doing Quattro systems forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro...rive_system%29

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....0&print_page=y

http://www.autoworld.com/news/Audi/Quattro_system.htm

And guess who kicks ass in this video showing cars climbing a ski hill? Audi or BMW?

Watch it and weep!

PS Don't think I'm just stirring up $hit b/c of the car I drive. I'm considering getting the 335i/xi next, hence why I'm here! :rocks:

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I guess I am curious why anyone would pick the rear wheel drive 335io without LSD vs. the 335xi with LSD/all wheel drive for $2k more? I know the 200 lb difference, but that is minimal considering the benefits to me.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought you can only get the 335i with the sports package, and not the xi? I understand you said you'd swap in coilovers right away, but stock vs stock, that's one reason. I've read some people who upgraded to Procede say they wouldn't want to have all that extra power without the sports package.

[elucas730]

Originally Posted by T Bone

X Drive can send torque 100% front to back

This is true.

Originally Posted by T Bone

and disengages at high speeds. It is completely variable unlike Quattro.

So there is very little parasitic drivetrain loss caused by Xdrive versus a mechanical system like Quattro. Also, it will not plow like a Quattro.

Not only will the XI launch harder but it will not suffer high speed losses.

This is not true. From what I have seen, under normal conditions, xDrive still sends 40% of the power to the front wheels and 60% to the rear wheels. It will only go to 0:100 or 0:100 if there is slippage. So, no, it does not disengage driving the front wheels at high speeds and yes, it still does suffer from the same drivetrain loss as all other AWD cars.

Originally Posted by T Bone

They will show up.

But just going on a tangent and using common sense, would you want one wheel launching the car or have the XI which at stop / low speed has a default preset to send some torque to the front wheels.

All the top drag cars seem to prefer RWD. It really depends on more factors than just the drivetrain layout. People seem to have no problems cutting nice 60' times on stock RFTs. Throw on some DRs (as some people already have) and the RWDs are seeing 1.7 (or lower) 60' times. You also aren't taking into account the fact that to get those times out of an AWD car, you need to do a very harsh launch that can be damaging to the driveline.

Originally Posted by T Bone

Looking at silly figures like 0-60, BMW acknowledges the XI goes is faster from 0-60 than the RWD, this is all to do with better traction at launch.

BMW also claimed 5.3 seconds 0-60 for the RWD car, so we all know not to trust their claims. I have yet to see anyone go 0-60 (stock) faster than the 4.8 seconds that C&D got in a manual RWD sedan. Some have equalled it, but none have beat it (that I've seen).

My brother works for a performance shop in Charlotte that has an AWD dyno. If an AWD and RWD owner in the area are interested in getting their cars dynoed, I'm sure I can arrange it with him (or you can just call and setup an appointment yourself).

[bnj]

I have been told by the dealer that xi disengages the power to the front wheels at 180km/h.

Sure, xi helps in traction at the drag strip, but for many drag strip and DRs are not relevant.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Amiro

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought you can only get the 335i with the sports package, and not the xi? I understand you said you'd swap in coilovers right away, but stock vs stock, that's one reason. I've read some people who upgraded to Procede say they wouldn't want to have all that extra power without the sports package.

The suspension would be irrelevant to me only because I would replace that, so the value of the AWD and LSD's are my real spot that has me debating the two.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by elucas730

This is not true. From what I have seen, under normal conditions, xDrive still sends 40% of the power to the front wheels and 60% to the rear wheels. It will only go to 0:100 or 0:100 if there is slippage. So, no, it does not disengage driving the front wheels at high speeds and yes, it still does suffer from the same drivetrain loss as all other AWD cars.

The early Xdrives and the ones found on the X3 / X5 are forced to drive the front....the new XDrives like the 335xi, does cut off the front at high speeds.

Where are you getting your data?

[elucas730]

For starters, it's in the article on the new xDrive system posted by catdog in post 53.