[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Bravo1

Does an intercooler make any cool sounds... I wanna hear stuff
The intercooler is a nice thing to have, ...

I see the FMIC like that:

1) It provides cooler air. Not that much, but in a way as you would drive your car in cooler weather conditions. Probably you will see 5-10 degrees less oil-temperatures compared to stock ( which is a good thing for all who care about engine longivity ).

2) Thus there is less pressure drop due to the better FMIC, the turbos don't have to work that hard to achieve the boost targets compared to the stock cooler, so this is good for the turbos.

3) If you get any additional power without a specific map, this is a goodie and has no priority. In my point of view the FMIC itself is no performance mod ( unless you spray some coolant on it which will allow to cool the air below ambient temperature ).

4) Related to your sound question: The only, but quite loud sound it makes is here on this board

- Eugen

[Bravo1]

There may be a change in engine temperature but it would be minor, the main thing is the rise of intake temperatures would increase the chance of detonation, which in turn would probably cause the car to pull timing and go pig rich. If it get's bad enough then it may throw a cel of go into limp mode.

In relation to preasure drop, it actually will have to work harder. Any time you increase the size of an intercooler you are going lose some efficiency. According to Spearco the efficiency is within a percentage point of the stock unit, so you shouldn't notice a difference in spool up. If the intercooler got any bigger like the AA one that may come out, you will probably increase your spool up time.

Yup there sure is alot of noise on this board. It is nice that someone decided to purchase the unit un-tested and provide the results on the board... whether the results were positive or negative.. it's still good for the community

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by down4it

At least i annoyed you... You just look at $ vs. HP... You cant see the bigger picture... Keep out PREFORMING people...

OT, but have you ever considered that you're fighting a pretty pointless battle? I mean, really, you are trying to out-do the joneses by getting better toys. Someone will always outspend you.

If you want to be "better", improve yourself. How's the nut behind the wheel? Nice and tight?

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I see the FMIC like that:

1) It provides cooler air. Not that much, but in a way as you would drive your car in cooler weather conditions. Probably you will see 5-10 degrees less oil-temperatures compared to stock ( which is a good thing for all who care about engine longivity ).

- Eugen

As far as I know, no one can legitimately claim that, under controlled conditions, this or any 335i intercooler will lower oil temps. A 125 degree improvement in IAT over stock (lol) would still be minuscule when you consider that the combustion temperature is thousands of degrees. I don't think even Turbonetics is claiming lower oil temps. 5-10 degrees is well within the sampling error.

How do you guys measure IAT? Davis Chip? I am considering monitoring IAT during my next track session. See how the stock IC does when subject to near constant boost.

Having an upgraded IC is NOT like running in cooler weather as it relates to oil temperature. Cooler weather results in cooler air over the oil cooler. Unless this IC is magic, I don't see that happening.

Eugen, perhaps you mistakenly put those sentences close to another, but the way it is said, it implies that the IC will lower oil temps (based on a single case where someone claims lower temps, without controlling for conditions) and that is misleading.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I see the FMIC like that:

1) It provides cooler air. Not that much, but in a way as you would drive your car in cooler weather conditions. Probably you will see 5-10 degrees less oil-temperatures compared to stock ( which is a good thing for all who care about engine longivity ).

2) Thus there is less pressure drop due to the better FMIC, the turbos don't have to work that hard to achieve the boost targets compared to the stock cooler, so this is good for the turbos.

3) If you get any additional power without a specific map, this is a goodie and has no priority. In my point of view the FMIC itself is no performance mod ( unless you spray some coolant on it which will allow to cool the air below ambient temperature ).

4) Related to your sound question: The only, but quite loud sound it makes is here on this board

- Eugen

1. An intercoolers job is to cool the air leaving the turbos before it enters the engine. If the stock intercooler is providing inake temps almost equal to the spearco intercooler than there is no advantage whatsoever. 130 degree intake temperatures are actually VERY reasonable. I am not sure how you are relating intake temps of a few degrees to oil temperatures. Cooler intake temps do not equal cooler running engines.

2. Larger intercoolers do not result in less pressure drop. Actually that makes no sense whatsoever since the system is a closed system. Actually the larger intercooler means there is a larger volume that must be filled before the boost actually reaches the engine. For stock turbos, this will likely result in more lag.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but it appears you understanding of turbo cars may be a bit off. You car is clearly sick and this has nothing to do with that. You have done an amazing job on your car!

[bnj]

Oil temp drop claim by 5-10 degrees is funny. Not real.
However there is a slightly smaller pressure drop, since Spearco unit is not much larger than stock and stock IC is not the best design.

[e.n335]

You guys seem to be complicated sometimes .

Both members who mounted the IC saw lower oil temps. I don't care why, I like it. I am not the super-duper-knowledge-FMIC guy, others perform better in this role. I just say that in THIS SPECIFIC CASE ( 335i and Spearco FMIC ) we see slightly lower oil temps and less pressure drop. Nothing magic, just reality. And I say I like to see it. When you want to elaborate why, how, it does but it should not and so on I am wrong one for any reference. Specialized engineers developed the unit, they are much more accountable than I am and I expect most of us are. They did not weld a nice looking box just for fun. I saw it, I bought it, I like it and I like the results. And I am sure it will be better for the engine than the stock one. I hope to get the FMIC soon. Thats all.

BTW, I think referring to the size is not the only valid indicator. 2 units can have the same core size, but the size of the surface can be very different. It depends how the core is constructed, IMHO.

Cheers
Eugen

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by e.n335

You guys seem to be complicated sometimes .

Both members who mounted the IC saw lower oil temps. I don't care why, I like it. I am not the super-duper-knowledge-FMIC guy, others perform better in this role. I just say that in THIS SPECIFIC CASE ( 335i and Spearco FMIC ) we see slightly lower oil temps and less pressure drop. Nothing magic, just reality. And I say I like to see it. When you want to elaborate why, how, it does but it should not and so on I am wrong one for any reference. Specialized engineers developed the unit, they are much more accountable than I am and I expect most of us are. They did not weld a nice looking box just for fun. I saw it, I bought it, I like it and I like the results. And I am sure it will be better for the engine than the stock one. I hope to get the FMIC soon. Thats all.

BTW, I think referring to the size is not the only valid indicator. 2 units can have the same core size, but the size of the surface can be very different. It depends how the core is constructed, IMHO.

Cheers
Eugen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Sorry Eugen, I buy things that are proven to provide positive benefits, not because it makes me feel like it might.

FWIW, my oil temp runs within a 15 degree range without any changes whatsoever. It is within the margin for measurement.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Sorry Eugen, I buy things that are proven to provide positive benefits, not because it makes me feel like it might.

FWIW, my oil temp runs within a 15 degree range without any changes whatsoever. It is within the margin for measurement.

That's all fine. I don't say you should buy the FMIC. I did and I am fine as well.

So there is no problem at all. And no cognitive dissonance .

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

2. Larger intercoolers do not result in less pressure drop. Actually that makes no sense whatsoever since the system is a closed system. Actually the larger intercooler means there is a larger volume that must be filled before the boost actually reaches the engine. For stock turbos, this will likely result in more lag.

I may have missed it, but I don't see where it was said that the intercooler's size affected the pressure drop, it was stated that Turbonetics claims a lower pressure drop across their intercooler than the stock one.

All intercoolers will have lower pressure on the outlet side than the inlet. Part of this is from the cooling effect (dynamic pressure drop), part is from the airflow obstruction the intercooler represents (static pressure drop). Pressure drop is at least as important as cooling efficiency when choosing an intercooler. Assuming the boost pressure is being adjusted based on desired manifold pressure, having too much pressure drop can cause the turbo to work harder to achieve the target boost. This may result in the turbo working in a much lower efficiency range, and could actually generate more heat than the "upgraded" intercooler is taking out. In order to determine if this is the case, one must actually take pressure and temperature measurements at various places in the intake tract.

As far as larger intercoolers increasing lag, you are correct. Any time you increase the volume of the intake tract, the turbo will need to compress a greater volume of air to fill it.

[RedGT3]

OK I'm confused. Some of you are buying bigger intercoolers because it helps to lower the oil temp. Why not just upgrade the stock oil cooler?

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by fll335

OK I'm confused. Some of you are buying bigger intercoolers because it helps to lower the oil temp. Why not just upgrade the stock oil cooler?

Nobody buys an Intercooler to lower the oil temps. The lowered oil temps indicate that the engine runs cooler and more efficient.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Sorry Eugen, I buy things that are proven to provide positive benefits, not because it makes me feel like it might.

FWIW, my oil temp runs within a 15 degree range without any changes whatsoever. It is within the margin for measurement.

I guess i just buy things to buy them... Its not about the $ for me but more that i just want to modify more than everyone else and i have the budget for it and i understand some people hate on that... No big deal... The Intercooler does its job, my car feels faster, the dyno will prove it and thats all that matters to me, not the $$$ spent on the product...

[e.n335]

An Intercooler makes much more sense than a Rolex, Breitling or something equivalent. It's nice to have both .

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by down4it

i just want to modify more than everyone else

That's where we differ. I mod to cure performance deficiencies.

But good luck to ya. Let us know which mods make a difference.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Nobody buys an Intercooler to lower the oil temps. The lowered oil temps indicate that the engine runs cooler and more efficient.

Non-sequitur.

Notwithstanding the fact that a 5-10 degree unscientifically observed drop in oil temps is just about worthless, that connection and conclusion is a leap.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

That's where we differ. I mod to cure performance deficiencies.

But good luck to ya. Let us know which mods make a difference.

We will do. I will also get catted DP's. So you would never buy such - only catless ? I do it due to the reduced emissions ...

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

As far as I know, no one can legitimately claim that, under controlled conditions, this or any 335i intercooler will lower oil temps. A 125 degree improvement in IAT over stock (lol) would still be minuscule when you consider that the combustion temperature is thousands of degrees.

125 degree lower temps over stock sure as hell would lower oil temps, and by a good amount too, it has nothing to do with the hot air heating up the oil (though in my never ending argument with the pro intercooler fanbois they thought this was why )

125 degree drop would result in much more advanced timings which would result in lower EGTs which would result in much lower oil temps (and much cooler turbos)


the 12 degree drop people might see with the spearco unit however will not

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

2. Larger intercoolers do not result in less pressure drop. Actually that makes no sense whatsoever since the system is a closed system. Actually the larger intercooler means there is a larger volume that must be filled before the boost actually reaches the engine. For stock turbos, this will likely result in more lag.

the amount of lag created by a larger intercooler (even double the size) would be extremely minimal, you do realize that lag is not created by how long it takes the piping to charge but how long it takes the turbos to spool right?

the turbos once spooled put out the volume of an intercooler in milliseconds, the turbos may have to spool higher to combat a bit more restriction, but again this is extremely minimal


havent you ever seen those corvettes with rear mounted turbos and about triple the charge piping of our car at the least? if your thinking was correct it would take that car 30 seconds to show power

Originally Posted by e.n335

Both members who mounted the IC saw lower oil temps. I don't care why, I like it. I am not the super-duper-knowledge-FMIC guy, others perform better in this role. I just say that in THIS SPECIFIC CASE ( 335i and Spearco FMIC ) we see slightly lower oil temps and less pressure drop.

They did not weld a nice looking box just for fun. I saw it, I bought it, I like it and I like the results. And I am sure it will be better for the engine than the stock one. I hope to get the FMIC soon. Thats all.

P L A C E B O for sale

and yea, they welded that pretty box for money not fun, which means you should be even more skeptical of them

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

2. Larger intercoolers do not result in less pressure drop. Actually that makes no sense whatsoever since the system is a closed system. Actually the larger intercooler means there is a larger volume that must be filled before the boost actually reaches the engine. For stock turbos, this will likely result in more lag.

a larger intercooler can make sense, it has a much higher heat dissipation potential which will allow you to lower your average charge air temps significantly if you whomp on your car regularly

[down4it]

Originally Posted by e.n335

We will do. I will also get catted DP's. So you would never buy such - only catless ? I do it due to the reduced emissions ...

Im honeslty just starting to think that they are just jealous haters... Sad...

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by down4it

my car feels faster, the dyno will prove it and thats all that matters to me

wonder what m&ms dyno proved...


oh yea thats right

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

wonder what m&ms dyno proved...


oh yea thats right

What is your role - kid, despot and late follower ?

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by e.n335

What is your role - kid, despot and late follower ?

maybe devils advocate or the guy that pulls people out of their fantasy land

one or the other, or was it both?