[fnu02]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

Hello all. This is my first post so treat me gently. My situation - I own a 997 Targa and i am looking for a long term daily driver. I first looked at the new C class but was turned off when the base C300 came in a manual but not the more powerful C350! Idiots. So now I am looking at a BMW...the 335i looks like an exceptional auto. My first hurdle is to decide between a 335i and 335xi (I am getting the sedan either way). I wanted to throw this out to fellow Chicago drivers on several fronts -

1) Is the x "needed" for our beloved Chicago winters? Its less than $2k for the AWD so cost is not a huge issue. Is the ride that different? Only other differences i can see is that the sport package doesnt upgrade to 150mph limiter in the x and (according to the website) there is no decrease in acceleration (0-60) though i presume the x would lose in the 1/4. My first inclination is to get it so I can drive a kick *ss year round car but dont want to go there if other performance factors are diminished. Any views on this from Chicago drivers would be appreciated.

2) I talked to a sales guy at Joe Perrillo. Are they pretty good in terms of getting a decent discount, service, etc? He threw out 2-3% off MSRP and said something about maintaining a 7% margin (on invoice i presume). Doesnt sound like a great deal but not horrible either for a popular car ordered for the factory.

3) I am thinking of Monaco Blue with Terra interior...I think that will look very classy. And for options, sport package with 18" Ellipsoid wheels (will buy winter tires), park assist, heated seats, sirius and ipod adapter. I dont usually use navi and i dont like the extra bump on the dash so thats out. And of course an automatic transmission is clearly out Any other recommendations/views on options?

Thank you for any input.

Ken

if you order the Xi, you won't get the sports suspension.. I'd buy the reg

one and put on winter tires..

[cipher5]

I spoke with a few dealers before pulling the trigger on purchasing a car. First of all, Motorwerks and Irv were the best. Constantly in contact and responsive. Perillo was the worst, they never came up to me and I had to go to the receptionist to get a salesmen. On top of that, the salesmen was cocky and said MSRP or no deal. I had already done my research and dealers were offering some money off. This kind of attitude won't win customers, I sure hope they change their tune someday.

As for AWD, AWD is no good without proper tires. A RWD car with great tires will outperform an AWD with ok tires. Chicago winters have been for the most part mild the last few years, usually its only bad for a couple weeks. I wouldn't let the weather dictate getting AWD over RWD.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by fnu02

if you order the Xi, you won't get the sports suspension.. I'd buy the reg

one and put on winter tires..

not exactly true any more, you can get the sport suspension from the BMW Performance Catalog!

Depends on what type of work you do and how early do you have to go to work, the x-Drive system might offer some advantage, e.g. a lowly medical student or intern that needs to get to the hospital at 4 or 5am will benefit from x-Drive in the winter because the damn streets are not plowed.

[EHDEN]

i have no comment to this as I live in Miami. but great info. loved reading for my knowledge.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Chi-town330

Perillo has a good service department, we have used them for years and never had one problem.

As far as purchasing: I suggest you do all negotiating with Saleem, the manager. He is nice, straightforward, and very professional. A genuine good person, in my opinion. The only thing I did with the SA was go for a test drive. Then we went directly to Saleem for all financial discussions. Then dealt with the SA on the paperwork. A few of the SA's there are cheeseballs, some are nice, but seriously, just work with Saleem.

Every time I have been in there, Saleem continues to impress me, even offering free detail jobs (which I haven't used). My fiance had a few issues on her 02 that he got fixed for almost nothing, and she didn't even buy her car there. I think he is into creating relationships, and he has cultivated one with us. We live only a few blocks away, and stop in often just to chat with him.

This illustrates a very good point. Car salesmen switch jobs like clockworks, so they are only interested in squeezing as much money out of you as possible in the current transaction. They are not into cultivating long term relationships. However, higher ups usually have a more stable job so they tend to care about customers coming back.

[Csk]

Originally Posted by Kev

not exactly true any more, you can get the sport suspension from the BMW Performance Catalog!

Can you really get it for the 335xi? How much would it cost?

[Kev]

I think so. Look at this scan (since Tischer's site is down for maintenance):



It didn't say excluding XI. Also, AFAIR, Tischer's site lists the item as available for all vehicles w/o factory sport suspension, which leads me to believe that this is just the OEM sport suspension kit. I think Tischer sells it for about 580.

[purplewidow]

i live in glenview......all you need is blizzaks or some good snow tires and you will be fine!!!!!! x drive is a waste......are you going to be flying arounfd in the snow? going 10-20mph over the limit? i don't think so so don't waste your money!!!!!! RWD is much more fun in my opinion esp on a track when you can slip out the back easier!!!!! plus rwd is much much better on fuel economy!!!!!!! x drive is a waste of money unless you live in an area that doesn't plow streets normally or always has 3-4 inches of snow or more on the ground on a basis that dictates necessity for an awd car ie 30-40% of the year with that much snow covered not plowed!!!!!! my CA and SA laugh at people who buy Xdrive cause it is useless unless you are driving in heavey snow all the time.....or you drive like a psycho in the rain and snow....ALL YOU NEED IS GOOD SNOW TIRES DON'T GET X DRIVE AWD SUCKS ESP THE GAS OUT OF YOUR TANK!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST READ "COST IS NOT AN ISSUE AT 2K FOR X DRIVE" UP ABOVE, YEAH IT'S NOT THE 2 K IT'S THE 20-30% MORE GAS YOUR USING FOR DRIVING AROUND ON PAVEMENT 95% OF THE TIME!!!! x drive is a waste!!!!!!

[///M3NACE]

thats so true...but 4 wheel drive can be better...rwd is faster and better on gas but 4 wheel drive can help in the snow more. pretend theirs a blizzard and there many here in chicago you would need 4 wheel drive...i had snow tires on my e90 and i had to get towed and my cousin who also had a e90 330xi was doing fine.
rwd<fwd....Only in snow..

[Kev]

Originally Posted by purplewidow

i live in glenview......all you need is blizzaks or some good snow tires and you will be fine!!!!!! x drive is a waste......are you going to be flying arounfd in the snow? going 10-20mph over the limit? i don't think so so don't waste your money!!!!!! RWD is much more fun in my opinion esp on a track when you can slip out the back easier!!!!! plus rwd is much much better on fuel economy!!!!!!! x drive is a waste of money unless you live in an area that doesn't plow streets normally or always has 3-4 inches of snow or more on the ground on a basis that dictates necessity for an awd car ie 30-40% of the year with that much snow covered not plowed!!!!!! my CA and SA laugh at people who buy Xdrive cause it is useless unless you are driving in heavey snow all the time.....or you drive like a psycho in the rain and snow....ALL YOU NEED IS GOOD SNOW TIRES DON'T GET X DRIVE AWD SUCKS ESP THE GAS OUT OF YOUR TANK!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST READ "COST IS NOT AN ISSUE AT 2K FOR X DRIVE" UP ABOVE, YEAH IT'S NOT THE 2 K IT'S THE 20-30% MORE GAS YOUR USING FOR DRIVING AROUND ON PAVEMENT 95% OF THE TIME!!!! x drive is a waste!!!!!!

Wowowo, easy easy, you're going to get an MI if you continue at this rate. The OP has a 997 Targa, which is already AWD (all 997 Targas are AWD), so I don't think the OP would appreciate you bashing the AWD system like this, LOL.

To repeat myself, get an XI if you need to get to work, rain, shine, snow, or just pouring. I know I'll have to do that for the rest of my life so it's easy to make a choice.

[Kennygoodboy]

Oh, no offense to bashing awd...i was pretty sure i would get some strong opinions. Whatever their view, people tend to exaggerate their side to make the point. For example see purplewdow's post, rwd are not even close to being 20-30% more fuel efficient. The real answer is more like 5-10% (compare any like models rwd vs awd and that is the difference). Also, it is not just snow but any slick conditions (I need to check my almanac but pretty sure it rains year round) where awd is beneficial. Of course, usually that benefit is at the detriment to speed performance but in this case, the xi is actually quicker (really the same) if you believe BMW's posted numbers. If the quickness is the same but you can get the awd drive benefits, it seems logical to me to get the awd for $1,900. And as for more fun at the track, thats what the 997 is for

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

Oh, no offense to bashing awd...i was pretty sure i would get some strong opinions. Whatever their view, people tend to exaggerate their side to make the point. For example see purplewdow's post, rwd are not even close to being 20-30% more fuel efficient. The real answer is more like 5-10% (compare any like models rwd vs awd and that is the difference). Also, it is not just snow but any slick conditions (I need to check my almanac but pretty sure it rains year round) where awd is beneficial. Of course, usually that benefit is at the detriment to speed performance but in this case, the xi is actually quicker (really the same) if you believe BMW's posted numbers. If the quickness is the same but you can get the awd drive benefits, it seems logical to me to get the awd for $1,900. And as for more fun at the track, thats what the 997 is for

I went to UW-Madison for college and graduate school so I'm pretty familiar with Chicago's weather. I'd still get an XI if I have to go back to Chicago for residency, just to be on the safe side.

[Kennygoodboy]

good luck with those long hours!

[drkeng]

On my E46 330 without sport pkg, I didn't even get winter tires and was ok in the winter including one morning storm where cars were going off the road left and right, including an Acura TL (FWD) off in a ditch on my offramp (which I couldn't really even see the side margins of b/c of the snow).

I only slid a little sideways once appraoching a red light at about 10 mph, maybe slower, during an afternoon rush hour snow. Right before that happened, I saw a car coming towards me as I waited to make a left turn do a 180 as he tried to stop at the yellow/red light, so I knew conditions were rough.

For this car, I'm getting winter tires/wheels; guess I gotta do that soon.

For the most part, the roads are clear of snow within 24 hours a big snow, but we haven't any storms in the last few years like out east where it snows day after day after day. That said, I heard someone say the summer weather pattern is like it was in 1967, a year we had massive snow, and we could be in for a bad winter (if you believe that almanac stuff).

[purplewidow]

that's funny cause during that blizzard i was driving home in a 400 hp rwd 1995 e34 540i dinan 5 with snows and had no problems hell i hardly slipped!!!!!! there aren't tons of blizzards here in chicago and within a couple hours it is all mostly plowed!!!!!! i am not wasting that kind of money on gas and performance and fun for 24 hours i might use it!!!! i have never gotten stuck in any rwd car with snows or all weather tires and i have been in some slippery situation.....still i don't see the point for us here in chicago....if you drive the speed limit or cautious there is no need!!!! my dealership laughs and takes there money....i mean it is pointless unless you live in buffalo or colorado or some mountainous region....it is flat here you DON"T NEED IT!!!!! IT IS A WASTE AND WON"T MAKE YOU ANY SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(in the chi at least maybe in the mountains somewhere with 4-12 inches on the ground) I think people seriously UNDERESTIMATE snow tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean your not going to be going 80 on 94 in the snow ok you going to be cautious so what the hell is the point!!!!!!! gas, less fun on a track, gas, weight, gas...just those three make it not worth it plus you cannot get the best option(i think) active steering and no sport suspension i think...just makes it definitely not worth it.....wheels become an issue...hell screw AWD!!!!!! RWD is fun and i am not going to rally so i am golden!!!!!!!! and i bet NONE of you are going to rally your 335 too!!!

[Kruz]

Originally Posted by purplewidow

i live in glenview......all you need is blizzaks or some good snow tires and you will be fine!!!!!! x drive is a waste......are you going to be flying arounfd in the snow? going 10-20mph over the limit? i don't think so so don't waste your money!!!!!! RWD is much more fun in my opinion esp on a track when you can slip out the back easier!!!!! plus rwd is much much better on fuel economy!!!!!!! x drive is a waste of money unless you live in an area that doesn't plow streets normally or always has 3-4 inches of snow or more on the ground on a basis that dictates necessity for an awd car ie 30-40% of the year with that much snow covered not plowed!!!!!! my CA and SA laugh at people who buy Xdrive cause it is useless unless you are driving in heavey snow all the time.....or you drive like a psycho in the rain and snow....ALL YOU NEED IS GOOD SNOW TIRES DON'T GET X DRIVE AWD SUCKS ESP THE GAS OUT OF YOUR TANK!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST READ "COST IS NOT AN ISSUE AT 2K FOR X DRIVE" UP ABOVE, YEAH IT'S NOT THE 2 K IT'S THE 20-30% MORE GAS YOUR USING FOR DRIVING AROUND ON PAVEMENT 95% OF THE TIME!!!! x drive is a waste!!!!!!

Enough of the CAPS and exclamation points already :rolleyes....yours is just another opinion on a message board.

I have Blizzaks AND Xdrive and yes I plan on flying around in the snow avoiding all the idiots this winter.

Is it worth a few thousand more for peace of mind knowing that I dont have to wait for the snow plows to clear the roads, that I can manuever around that salt truck pelting my hood, that I can make it up that icey overpass?

Sure is.

And the snow is not the reason I went with the Xrive...Im past the wheel spinning shenanigans of my youth. I want maximum grip and acceleration at all speeds in any weather condition.

As far 20-30% more fuel consumption...where do you make this stuff up?

So all the polls of MPG and the BMWUSA's estimates are all wrong then? The Xdrive translates to maybe a mile per gallon less efficiency in the real world.

Im averaging 19mpg in my first 1600 miles of aggressive breakin. For the few times Ive set the cruise in 6th at 70mph, Ive seen 28-29mpg on flat terrain.

So enough of the unsubstantiated personal opinions already; this forum is for sharing quality information and not your personal biases.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Kruz

Enough of the CAPS and exclamation points already :rolleyes....yours is just another opinion on a message board.

I have Blizzaks AND Xdrive and yes I plan on flying around in the snow avoiding all the idiots this winter.

Is it worth a few thousand more for peace of mind knowing that I dont have to wait for the snow plows to clear the roads, that I can manuever around that salt truck pelting my hood, that I can make it up that icey overpass?

Sure is.

And the snow is not the reason I went with the Xrive...Im past the wheel spinning shenanigans of my youth. I want maximum grip and acceleration at all speeds in any weather condition.

As far 20-30% more fuel consumption...where do you make this stuff up?

So all the polls of MPG and the BMWUSA's estimates are all wrong then? The Xdrive translates to maybe a mile per gallon less efficiency in the real world.

Im averaging 19mpg in my first 1600 miles of aggressive breakin. For the few times Ive set the cruise in 6th at 70mph, Ive seen 28-29mpg on flat terrain.

So enough of the unsubstantiated personal opinions already; this forum is for sharing quality information and not your personal biases.

Well said, indeed very well said.

I drove around in my W211 E55 AMG (493hp s/c'ed stock) in Boston in the past two winters on 18" Blizzak LM25s with no problem. I can even over take SUVs and Subies in the snow. However, now that I have been placed more clinical responsibilities, which dictates my work schedule, do I want to risk the chance of getting stuck in the road and not being able to go to work? No! It's all a matter of balancing your personal preference with your professional obligation. Since the OP already has a fun car, I don't see the reason for getting an RWD BMW just to track it or do donuts. For god sakes, this man owns a Porsche Targa 4S, a GT built on a race car platform, why would he want to track a BMW non-M sedan or coupe? Does he really care about the little extra gas consumption? I highly doubt it.

Some times one needs to take a step back and think clearly before one goes on with the rambles......

[toolfan]

Well, are you the only one driving the vehicle? If you can drive a 997, you will be fine in the winter with a nice set of snow tires in a RWD car. Now if your wife or children will be driving this vehicle and this is a daily driver, I would go with the 335xi because how confident are you with their driving and it is great for resale in the chicago are. Here is a little stat for you, I am not sure on the 3 series, but for the 5 series, 72% of 5 series sold in the chicago region are AWD. If you want a good deal, I can get you more than 2-3% off easily. Just PM me if you are interested.

[Tag]

I have to say that Xdrive is not something that was worth the extra $$$ for me. If there is that much snow on the ground I don't want to be out there anyway. Too much of a risk of someone else hitting me.

That said I don't think Xdrive is a waste of money or not necessary. If you truly want the best handling in rain or snow get Xdrive and the proper tires. If you don't mind having to rock your car a couple of times to get out of some serious snow then all you need are the proper tires; even then it's far and few times it'll come down to that.

In the end it's the classic pros and cons game.

Pros
Better overall handling in rain and snow.
Better off the line acceleration (Don't know at what speed if any parasitic loss takes over and a regular 335i out accelerates it ).

Cons
More $$$.
Sport package not offered.
More fuel consumption (although I think this is negligible).
Car weighs more and weight distribution is not as evenly spread...
Manual 335i
51.5F/48.5R

Manual 335xi
53.8F/46.2R

Auto 335i
51.7F/48.3R

Auto 335xi
53.9F/46.1R

So I guess what I'm saying is it your preference. Is the overall cost of Xdrive worth it to you?

[Kennygoodboy]

Update: Got Perillo up to 4% so feeling a little better about that. I test drove both cars and while I only drove a few miles in each, I am going with the xi. Would the i be "fine" in winter? Of course. But the xi didnt feel heavier and I launched it more smoothly in the xi (in the i, I got the yellow light (traction control i am guessing) to come on). Again, not the most scientific test but I feel better about the xi now. I thought the overall ride was pretty smooth (went over some horrible roads in the city). Also, my intended color combo looks STRIKING in person...absolutely loved it. The sales guy thought I should go with the 17" all seasons but I think 18" high performance in summer and some blizzaks in winter would be much better. Not ordering until March but i guess i like to get ahead of myself

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

Update: Got Perillo up to 4% so feeling a little better about that. I test drove both cars and while I only drove a few miles in each, I am going with the xi. Would the i be "fine" in winter? Of course. But the xi didnt feel heavier and I launched it more smoothly in the xi (in the i, I got the yellow light (traction control i am guessing) to come on). Again, not the most scientific test but I feel better about the xi now. I thought the overall ride was pretty smooth (went over some horrible roads in the city). Also, my intended color combo looks STRIKING in person...absolutely loved it. The sales guy thought I should go with the 17" all seasons but I think 18" high performance in summer and some blizzaks in winter would be much better. Not ordering until March but i guess i like to get ahead of myself

Good choice. You won't be disappointed with the XI. The Blizzaks LM-25 will keep your car planted to the ground in sorts of winter driving condition.

I'm waiting for the DSG transmission to be put in the 997 Targa before I order one

[Kennygoodboy]

Originally Posted by Kev

I'm waiting for the DSG transmission to be put in the 997 Targa before I order one

I hope to have my 997 for 20 years and be some fifty something driving an outdated sports car but still loving it. The car is well worth the wait (I waited 2 years)