[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Currently.

If Doc race(for instance) sold complete manifolds for 2k, you pick up a turbo for 2k, and then spend another 1k in lines/install parts/etc. I can see a ST in that cost range. Granted you will pay more if you want to have it mate to the stock exhaust location.

I would be VERY surprised if any of the guys having shops make custom ST setups for them paid as much as the FFTEC kit. Hopefully those guys have jigs made up so they can produce more manifolds.

This $5k estimate requires you have most pre-req'd mods (some flash tune you can modify yourself) and whether you choose to use a piggy back or EBC for boost control... It also doesn't include install, but neither does the Vargas Stg. 3s (the VTR 28Rs are $8k, the VFF600 is $7k for parts w/ tune).

Originally Posted by ChuckD05

your dyno on stock turbos is a good for sure.. BUT the power the rbs make in the upper rpm range is substantially more than stock turbos... more than the peak 50-70whp gain... prob over 100 at 57-5800 .... you may think it feels the same but i gaurantee you its not...

+1 the area under the curve of Stockers vs. RBs/VTT S2s are going to be completely different, especially in the meat of the boost curve.

Originally Posted by ChuckD05

and OP dynoed 460 on which dyno ? an xi on stock turbos is not making 460 on the standard dyno jet.... His rbs will put down 550 than....

I believe the 460 WHP is an all out kill map on E85, which isn't hard to achieve with tons of advance ignition timing and 22 psi on stock turbos.

[ChuckD05]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

This $5k estimate requires you have most pre-req'd mods (some flash tune you can modify yourself) and whether you choose to use a piggy back or EBC for boost control... It also doesn't include install, but neither does the Vargas Stg. 3s (the VTR 28Rs are $8k, the VFF600 is $7k for parts w/ tune).


+1 the area under the curve of Stockers vs. RBs/VTT S2s are going to be completely different, especially in the meat of the boost curve.



I believe the 460 WHP is an all out kill map on E85, which isn't hard to achieve with tons of advance ignition timing and 22 psi on stock turbos.

On an awd auto? Really? Please show me one within fifteen hp on a dynojet other than ops

[dlbrooks18]

I'm sure you can tune your RB's to get that additional push you are seeking from 0 -100, keep us posted and thanks for sharing your review.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by ChuckD05

On an awd auto? Really? Please show me one within fifteen hp on a dynojet other than ops

Ya, most xi will trap around 116mph at fbo with meth. I'm one of those guys and running about 18.5psi midrange with 12degree advance tapering to 12psi. I ran a 12.01 at 116mph in about 75 degree weather at 1500ft ASL.

So if someone had the balls to push 22psi midrange I'd imagine the times and hp are there minus about 10% for awd loss on a dyno.

[ChuckD05]

100whp difference , lol im done here

[Iceberg3232]

Originally Posted by ChuckD05

which is great for an XI but NOT reflective of a 460whp trap car ... thats a 420whp car

and 11.9@120 in an xi ? shows he was spinning than , prob more now too....

i rest my car until logs are posted which should be a prerequisite for a thread like this

There was a log posted in the first thread, multiple threads and videos showing the dynojet at 460/521, and it ran 11.83 at 120 with zero tire spin. I will add third gear pulls but it's been snowing out lately and the ones I have are showing a bit of overboost.

[Iceberg3232]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

This $5k estimate requires you have most pre-req'd mods (some flash tune you can modify yourself) and whether you choose to use a piggy back or EBC for boost control... It also doesn't include install, but neither does the Vargas Stg. 3s (the VTR 28Rs are $8k, the VFF600 is $7k for parts w/ tune).

+1 the area under the curve of Stockers vs. RBs/VTT S2s are going to be completely different, especially in the meat of the boost curve.

I believe the 460 WHP is an all out kill map on E85, which isn't hard to achieve with tons of advance ignition timing and 22 psi on stock turbos.

Was hitting and holding 15.8 degrees of timing.

[Iceberg3232]

Originally Posted by ChuckD05

[IMG]http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1366935724[/IMG]

100whp difference , lol im done here

Ok - this wasn't my stock dyno which made 450 at the same range you're comparing.

Just hold your comments till the car is remapped and tuned and I should be arguing with you instead of defending previous power figures...

[WedgePerformance]

I don't know why everyone gets so hung up on dyno numbers. Dan had one of the fastest stock turbo XI's even through he didn't cut a record time which would have been much easier in an AT XI, but for an MT XI to trap 120, that just goes to show he's making the numbers. You don't get trap speeds like that without the WHP to back it up. I can't wait to see how things come together with the RB's... It would be really cool to see him cut solid 11 flat. 10.99 would be even better.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I've kind of felt this way about all the twin upgrades ever since I saw the chicago runway event where they both struggled to edge out a maxed out stock setup. It's only after 130mph from a roll, that you can see the upgraded twins eek out a few car lengths over the stock. You're right about going single. You can only do so much with the twins.

I learned from my 997tt, that power bumps north of 500hp is hard to notice on the street at speeds anywhere near legal. And that power means even less on a racetrack, something I only got into during the last year and enjoy a ton more than the 1/2 mile event or the drag strip.

Hence I am more than happy being one of the cars you're referring too.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

I learned from my 997tt, that power bumps north of 500hp is hard to notice on the street at speeds anywhere near legal. And that power means even less on a racetrack, something I only got into during the last year and enjoy a ton more than the 1/2 mile event or the drag strip.

Hence I am more than happy being one of the cars you're referring too.

I've been on racetracks for years, and I've seen youtube videos of what I think might have been your car at the autobahn North. I did certainly notice, that it didn't seem like the upgraded twins did anything at all out there. I did the barn last year, in my usual stock + race gas map set up, and did very very well.

[SUHleen]

I hate to bring this up back from the dead, but what is the consensus on RB turbo's? What is the highest PSI they can safely handle? And what are the highest HP/TQ numbers with pump gas, race gas, pump gas and meth, race gas and meth, e85, etc? Has anyone compiled any of that info in one nice neat thread?

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by SUHleen

I hate to bring this up back from the dead, but what is the consensus on RB turbo's? What is the highest PSI they can safely handle? And what are the highest HP/TQ numbers with pump gas, race gas, pump gas and meth, race gas and meth, e85, etc? Has anyone compiled any of that info in one nice neat thread?

Highest numbers are not a good measure a mod. Between individual cars, dynos and conditions, there can't be pretty wide variances between results. You can sift through them if you want.

[mithiral67]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847231

Here is my log, note I was running a conserative tune. I could have added another 2psi down low and netted 20-30 more whp safely, but it would have been getting borderline.

500/500 is a reasonabl expection assuming proper fueling with e85 or meth.

[SUHleen]

I understand it can vary between cars, but no one really has said what the RB's are capable of....

We all know the stock turbos can peak 20, 21, maybe even 22 on some peoples setups (although not very safe IMO) and can make around 500 with the proper mods at the most. I want to know how much more the RB's can handle. It seems like with the upgraded RB's, mid to high 20 pounds of boost would be feasible, but not very many people are running higher than the stock numbers. So either they can not make much more than what they are currently making or people are afraid of pushing them past 22 psi. It is looking like for me, even though I have a DCT, the upgraded twins is out of the question. $3k+ is a lot for what little gains can be had, at least IMO. My car is a daily, but to have the potential to crank up the boost and make more than 600 rwhp/rwtq would be great. I have a supercharged 1/4 mile car, so I do not think I will miss the instant torque/response. I want something that pulls like a freight train for my weekend warrior. Tired of these few damn Honda's running around with baby size turbo's that eventually pull on me.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by SUHleen

I understand it can vary between cars, but no one really has said what the RB's are capable of....

We all know the stock turbos can peak 20, 21, maybe even 22 on some peoples setups (although not very safe IMO) and can make around 500 with the proper mods at the most. I want to know how much more the RB's can handle. It seems like with the upgraded RB's, mid to high 20 pounds of boost would be feasible, but not very many people are running higher than the stock numbers. So either they can not make much more than what they are currently making or people are afraid of pushing them past 22 psi. It is looking like for me, even though I have a DCT, the upgraded twins is out of the question. $3k+ is a lot for what little gains can be had, at least IMO. My car is a daily, but to have the potential to crank up the boost and make more than 600 rwhp/rwtq would be great. I have a supercharged 1/4 mile car, so I do not think I will miss the instant torque/response. I want something that pulls like a freight train for my weekend warrior. Tired of these few damn Honda's running around with baby size turbo's that eventually pull on me.

You need a proper single turbo then.

People trying to push stock frames into another universe are just asking for it. They won't last, doens't matter how much work (and good work, I should add) Rob or Tony puts into the wheels and porting. The frame size is what it is, and presents a huge source of heat and restriction.

Perhaps I will be proven wrong, but I'd be shocked if these cars pushing 550-600WHP on stock turbos last more than half-a-year. It really has nothing to do with the craftsmanship of Tony or Rob, they both know how to make a quality product. But at the end of the day, the stock frame is a fundamental compromise. You can shoehorn whatever blade profile you'd like in it and make nice dyno queen numbers, but between the curve, the longevity, smoking, rattling....Just do it right and get a single. IMO

Now if 480-500WHP is your target, think those hybrid options become the clear choice. I just find it funny that nearly a decade after this motor came out, people are still trying to find ways to obliterate the stock turbos.

[FRMTL2_335i]

dude, its all about your tune.... when i first installed my RBs i was soooooooooo disappointed i wanted to sell them right away!!!!
I was running bms e85 flash on stock turbos, 100% e85 and meth injection, car was a monster.....after rb install with same setup but e60 i couldn't notice much difference if any!

Extremely disappointed I contacted Wedge and he sent me a flash.... and HOLY BANANAS, car was a night and day difference! it took a little fine tuning but i was speechless! I beat a 560whp TT 370z not too long ago and put about 2 cars on him in 4-5 runs, he recently went to the track and trapped 125!!!

[SUHleen]

Originally Posted by FRMTL2_335i

dude, its all about your tune.... when i first installed my RBs i was soooooooooo disappointed i wanted to sell them right away!!!!
I was running bms e85 flash on stock turbos, 100% e85 and meth injection, car was a monster.....after rb install with same setup but e60 i couldn't notice much difference if any!

Extremely disappointed I contacted Wedge and he sent me a flash.... and HOLY BANANAS, car was a night and day difference! it took a little fine tuning but i was speechless! I beat a 560whp TT 370z not too long ago and put about 2 cars on him in 4-5 runs, he recently went to the track and trapped 125!!!

Yes, part of it is in the tune, but that is just making power available that other tuners have not, and usually for a reason. 135Pats makes a great post, and his post is the reason why I think I will go single turbo. I'm not bashing the RB's by any means as they are a superior product to the stock turbo, just the potential is not there. IMO, it is just a fail safe for people wanting 500ish wheel. I would be worried about your setup because to me it sounds like it is a ticking time bomb. You will probably get a lot of life out of it, but you are spinning those things at their max, and throwing anything you can to them to keep making the power (i.e. 100% e85 and meth). Wedge probably changed the timing in order to make you happy and squeeze some more power out of your setup, but I would think at the expense of safety. Now, don't get me wrong, it could be 100% safe, but the other tunes with a little less power were probably made like that for a reason...

Originally Posted by 135Pats

You need a proper single turbo then.

People trying to push stock frames into another universe are just asking for it. They won't last, doens't matter how much work (and good work, I should add) Rob or Tony puts into the wheels and porting. The frame size is what it is, and presents a huge source of heat and restriction.

Perhaps I will be proven wrong, but I'd be shocked if these cars pushing 550-600WHP on stock turbos last more than half-a-year. It really has nothing to do with the craftsmanship of Tony or Rob, they both know how to make a quality product. But at the end of the day, the stock frame is a fundamental compromise. You can shoehorn whatever blade profile you'd like in it and make nice dyno queen numbers, but between the curve, the longevity, smoking, rattling....Just do it right and get a single. IMO

Now if 480-500WHP is your target, think those hybrid options become the clear choice. I just find it funny that nearly a decade after this motor came out, people are still trying to find ways to obliterate the stock turbos.

I think you nailed it on the head with this post. The same housing is what is limiting them, just was not sure to what limit. They definitely make a great product, just not for everybody I guess. Apparently they have something in the works for a bigger twin upgrade

[mithiral67]

RBs are for folks that want the most out of a stockish fueling and susp set up. They really add to the power band north of 6k rpms, but if your goals are 600+ do it right with a single and upgrade the entire powertrain.