[beemerbird]

Bumps - this is disgraceful behaviour on part of the dealer. What I don't understand is why & how the dealers appear to vary, across the country. They should have 'got to work' on your car asap & if they didn't know how to sort it, admit it to you the customer & contact BMW technical services.

When my sat. nav. went wrong on my E90, my dealer admitted the same day they were stuck & had contactd BMW technical services for their help. Fine, as long as I know what is being done to sort it was my reply to them. TBH, if Stratsone had buggered it up & would have gone straight to Astles at Grimsby. Odd thing is our local Audi dealers are a set of tossers to be blunt. Strange world.

[Bumps]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Bumps - this is disgraceful behaviour on part of the dealer. What I don't understand is why & how the dealers appear to vary, across the country. They should have 'got to work' on your car asap & if they didn't know how to sort it, admit it to you the customer & contact BMW technical services.

Odd thing is our local Audi dealers are a set of tossers to be blunt. Strange world.

Wierd I agree. No possible reason I can think of why a prestige marque should have customer service that's a post code lottery

Our local Audi dealer is great so x2 But then my local BMW dealer is good too. Just too bad I broke down 500 miles away

[jwbmw]

I have always had excellent service from Audi, BMW = variable!

[peterg1965]

Bumps, sorry to hear that it is not sorted yet. This all comes down to decent customer service and courtesy. If the dealer had rung you and explained what was happening, including the possibility that workload meant that your car may not have been looked at on Monday, it would have been much easier to accept.

To me, and I do not run a business, it seems to be basic business practise to keep the customer happy and well informed. These failings are becoming far too prevalent across the BMW dealer network. Brands like Lexus thrive on their great and well publicised CS, I suppose BMW have become a mass market car producer and their customer service is being sacrificed. Shame on them.

[M3-FAST]

sorry to hear your car is no better....nor any nearer fixed

My Zafira wnet today and I got the 'vert back - took em 4 days to replace a seat belt but hey ho - in all fairness they did call at 5:50pm last night saying it was ready but they close at 6pm and it's a 20 min drive???

Promised a call 1st thing this morning but I had to call them at 11am as I had not heard anything. Eventually got dropped off at 1pm.

I must admit, the problems with the car are un-acceptable BUT the dealers exaggerate them by winding you up and not keeping you informed. They give you no confidence that your car IS important to them and they WILL look at it asap.

Hope your sorted soon mate

[yatesey]

Originally Posted by Bumps

Yep, can't remember when exactly in rpm, but it's quite soft. 450 miles on the motorway wasn't much fun. Like doing that distance in a biscuit tin....

Update - after chasing Douglas Park BMW for updates 4 times yesterday, and being told, "nothing yet", and "not sure when" I got fed up when they told me at 5pm that it wasn't going to get looked at that day after all (), so I got BMW UK customer service onto it, and they're handling it now. I simply can't be bothered - the overriding impression I got from the dealer when I rang them was that they just weren't interested; that they'd get round to it when they got round to it. There was no attempt to tell me when they would do, and I didn't think that was really on.

Got an update from BMW CS this lunchtime, and the dealer had referred the matter to BMW UK technical dept as they "aren't sure how to fix the problem". Apparently it's a faulty control module. I thought the solution was fairly obvious but evidently not. Not really a lot I could say to that. However, if it's not back by the end of the week I'm going to ask for a better replacement vehicle, though that will mean I'll have to give up jumping hump back bridges and the like

I can now understand why Tony said he would happily go to Audi. The whole thing just ruins your confidence in the car and trashes the ownership experience. This is my 5th BMW and all have had problems. However, as this is my only new BMW I thought it reasonable to expect no problems for 3 months at least!!! It may well take a lot to convince me to stay with the marque next time.......

Had a message when I got out of work from BMW CS but they were shut by the time I got it so I await with interest to see what tomorrow brings.

Bumps...sorry to hear ur tails of woe ...loads of sympathy!!....i posted a bit on this in another thread..as my stealer's not got back to me re some misfires...hanging his hopes on a software upgrade in december...im sure they havnt got a clue....but the customer care has gone so crap...cant wait for one of those follow up calls or questionaires

[Bumps]

Thanks all for your continued support.

Update - hope you're sitting comfortably.

My contact at BMW UK CS called this morning and I finally got on touch with her as I was in meetings and/or travelling all day. My car needs the software update which is unavailable until "around mid-December". They aim to have it back to me before Christmas!!!

I thought a little later whether the software was a known fix or whether it was the next step on the diagnostic ladder. I called the dealer and they gave no real answer. I can't condemn them completely as I seem to get the same girl who seems completely disinterested in me, and I haven't got the will or patience to chase things up through them. In some ways I feel a little guilty for going straight to BMW UK, but I did give them 4 chances over Monday to tell me the score but they refused to, or at least this individual refused to. So I called BMW UK CS with the same question. The short answer is that they THINK the software will fix the issue but they'll still need to run further tests after it's uploaded to see if it's worked.... Hmmmmm. It could be, however, that my car has additional faults. I also asked if this issue was common with this engine and was told no. I beg to differ!!!!!

BMW UK have, however, sorted me a BMW Courtesy car (they said likely a 330d) Wed/Thu next week for delivery to the dealer nearest my work, so that's some consolation. However, that means half my finance payment this month will have been paying for a Vauxhall Zafira.....

My thoughts so far:

1. The BMW dealer network is extremely patchy in terms of CS. I also tried to contact the service manager at my local dealer at 2.45pm today to tell him that was where the car is likely to be delivered to, and was told he'd call me back. Guess what....

2. This is my fifth BMW and all have had faults of varying severity and my faith in the marque is severely shaken.

3. I don't want to try and over-dramatise this but I am now thinking of rejecting the car. I have little faith in it and I need to have complete faith in it (for my new job if nothing else as I'm at a pretty short notice throughout my time). Were the car used I could allow it some latitude maybe, but how is it acceptable for a brand new car to be off the road for approx 4 weeks after 3 months of ownership and under 3000 miles? And why are some owners being allowed to drive their cars with the fault?

4. It seems as if the 2.0i engine is under-developed and BMW are on the back foot. I would love to know how many E9X 2.0is are languishing in dealers between now and the availability date of the software update. Moreover, the dealers seem ill-equipped to deal with the engine and it is resulting in cases like this.

5. Tony, you have the patience of a Saint!!

So, though I know it can be and has been done, but does anyone know any useful info about rejecting the car. If I do go down that route it will be for a refund as I see little point in exchanging it for another BMW - this was a new car after all and who's to say another car will be any better?

All those of you with the same problem, best wishes and good luck.

[Gibbo]

Bumps,

I think you should go and talk to your friendly local dealer Snows of Portsmouth. You have always said how good they are so go and speak to people you know. I assume you brought the car from there so they should help I guess.

I don't think you need to reject the car at this stage as they are going to lend you an equivalent car for a couple of weeks.

Although it's not ideal they have your safety as a priority as they don't want you to drive a car with any issues.

good luck

[peterg1965]

Bumps, this is an absolute nightmare, at least they are giving you a decent courtesy car now. I think you will find it difficult to reject at this point given that they are doing there uptmost (albeit in a tardy fashion) to get it back to you fixed. I would hold out for a resolution, meanwhile I would be chasing BMW UK for some sort of compensation of at least the months finance payment whilst the car is off the road. This is easily within their gift to do and, in fact, they have given compo to a couple of members here - ken iow I think, is one.

Anyway, hope the 330d is an E92! You never know you could be converted to derv!!

[jwbmw]

Reading about all the software issues on this forum and the E60 forum over the last 3 years, I do have to wonder about BMW's software development and architecture skills. They have so many issues with different problems occurring each release. You do wonder if it is modular enough or just a giant piece of ad-hoc coding. If it were modular and properly constructed, then a robust testing regime should identify many of the issues.

Any thoughts fellow forum members?

[Z4 Beemer]

Bumps, really sorry to hear all of this... and here was me saying that DP Hillington were a good outfit! From what I've heard of BMW dealer service centres, they are unlikely to go into a lot of detail with regard the fault or how common it is - their main priority is to get it fixed ASAP and get your car back on the road. Reading your comments, it crosses my mind as to whether either the software update is perhaps related to safety, or to stop the engine getting seriously damaged - something a bit more than a faulty sensor anyway.

Can you not ask them to reset the ECU (putting the light dash warning light out) and take the car back and see how it behaves until they are ready to do the proper update later - will they actually give you the car back, I would be interested to hear the answer to that question.

I also don't think a dealer would consider your idea of rejecting at the moment - basically for two reasons. 1. This is the first and only fault with the car? 2. BMW have not yet had a reasonable time to repair it.

Let us know how you get on and best of luck in sorting it out quickly.

Gordon.

[Bumps]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

I think you will find it difficult to reject at this point given that they are doing there uptmost (albeit in a tardy fashion) to get it back to you fixed. I would hold out for a resolution, meanwhile I would be chasing BMW UK for some sort of compensation of at least the months finance payment whilst the car is off the road. This is easily within their gift to do and, in fact, they have given compo to a couple of members here - ken iow I think, is one.

Fair point Pete - VMT.

Originally Posted by Z4 Beemer

Bumps, really sorry to hear all of this... and here was me saying that DP Hillington were a good outfit!

Can you not ask them to reset the ECU (putting the light dash warning light out) and take the car back and see how it behaves until they are ready to do the proper update later - will they actually give you the car back, I would be interested to hear the answer to that question.
Gordon.

Gordon, thanks and don't worry about DP Hillington - as I said I can't speak for the whole dealer service operation, just the one person, but I really couldn't be bothered doing any more myself.

Haven't asked the question in so many words but their intention was clear: BMW UK wanted the dealer to keep the car until the issue is resolved. I did ask whether the car could have sustained any mechanical engine damage while the engine was running with this fault, and BMW UK CS said no it couldn't. I furthermore asked whether the issue was simply of erroneous fault indications (and therefore the engine was not sustaining damage) and was told that that was the case. However, I don't know whether the slight misfires other members have been suffering are connected to this issue.

Originally Posted by Gibbo

Bumps,

I think you should go and talk to your friendly local dealer Snows of Portsmouth. You have always said how good they are so go and speak to people you know. I assume you brought the car from there so they should help I guess.

good luck

Tried to do that twice so far with no joy Gibbo!!!! Will try again tomorrow. Thanks for the good wishes

[beemerbird]

Bumps, firstly glad you'll be getting a decent courtesy cat at last. As for the 'disinterested girl' at the dealers, I'd insist on someone who IS interested. She has no bloody right to take that attitude & TBH I'd be tempted to let one of her superiors know. You don't have to be over the top, just politely explain how she is NOT doing her job properly. I certainly would not have any feelings of guilt either. To be fair, the dealers probably get exasperated with BMW, but obviously cannot say that to the customer. However, the dealer is the customer's contact to the brand & tough shit they have to deal with it - not your problem.

I agree with Pete re. rejection of the car at this stage. We're back to the 'moral' time span of what is classed as an acceptable period of time for the dealer to rectify any faults. I'm beginning to wonder whether BMW have 'rushed' this 2.0i engine without thorough R & D? I am a born cynic though.

Unfortunatley for now I think you may just have to 'roll with it'. Definately enquire about your finance payments though.

[Bumps]

Originally Posted by jwbmw

Reading about all the software issues on this forum and the E60 forum over the last 3 years, I do have to wonder about BMW's software development and architecture skills. They have so many issues with different problems occurring each release. You do wonder if it is modular enough or just a giant piece of ad-hoc coding. If it were modular and properly constructed, then a robust testing regime should identify many of the issues.

Any thoughts fellow forum members?

For me I think car makers in general rush products/upgrades etc to the market because we, the consumers, demand things yesterday/the best/fastest/best looking etc. I think this means that they effectively accept the risk of issues early on and develop as they go to some degree with new software releases.

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Bumps, firstly glad you'll be getting a decent courtesy cat at last. As for the 'disinterested girl' at the dealers, I'd insist on someone who IS interested. She has no bloody right to take that attitude & TBH I'd be tempted to let one of her superiors know. You don't have to be over the top, just politely explain how she is NOT doing her job properly. I certainly would not have any feelings of guilt either. To be fair, the dealers probably get exasperated with BMW, but obviously cannot say that to the customer. However, the dealer is the customer's contact to the brand & tough shit they have to deal with it - not your problem.

I agree with Pete re. rejection of the car at this stage. We're back to the 'moral' time span of what is classed as an acceptable period of time for the dealer to rectify any faults. I'm beginning to wonder whether BMW have 'rushed' this 2.0i engine without thorough R & D? I am a born cynic though.

Unfortunatley for now I think you may just have to 'roll with it'. Definately enquire about your finance payments though.

Cheers BB, and all. Sound advice as usual. It's moving forward at last, it's just bloody annoying, as I know so many others have experienced. With regard to the dealer, I think I'm probably persona non grata after 'grassing them up' so early in proceedings. I simply don't have the time at the moment to be chasing them up and given the logistical nightmare that it will be to get the car back I just thought I'd hand it to BMW UK CS, who really are on my side.

I too (born cynical) think the engine has been rushed to market, but, as I said above, actually we - the consumers - probably only have ourselves to blame.

[M3-FAST]

Bumps - sorry to hear about your issues - if only the dealers realised how exasparating they are......mine certainly winds me up and makes the experience of a 'fault' even worse.

Defo push for the finance - They paid a month of mine when they had it for the power steering rack (10 days old and they had it for a month) - I also got an additional payment when they had it for another fortnight with the fuel pump failure.

Email customer services at BMW UK stating why you are angry and what resolve you want (ie: finance covering) - the cheques were issued by the repairing dealer on behalf of BMW UK.

I don't think they will accept a rejection as it is the first fault, although the sales of goods act says they have to prove the car was not faulty when supplied if a major fault occurs within the first 6 months. If you really want to reject it then try? The worst they can do is refuse point blank. When I had steering rack issues, I knew of 2 other members who rejected there cars - one got a full refund and the other ordered a replacement FOC. If I remember right one of the cars was about 10 weeks old so you may have a chance.

Keep us informed!!

Paul

[bells0]

Well i've been told it's fine to drive mine with the light on until they can put the new software on................[and the light went off for a day and came back on last night, even after a supposed reset].

Hope i aint killing it!!

[yatesey]

Originally Posted by bells0

Well i've been told it's fine to drive mine with the light on until they can put the new software on................[and the light went off for a day and came back on last night, even after a supposed reset].

Hope i aint killing it!!

Bells..i think ul be ok...been driving mine for a bit now..but i dont get any lights like u do!!
...cant remember if iv mentioned b4 tho..but ive already had an interim upgrade to ver27.....stealer had said to wait for ver29 (dec) back in oct ..but it started to get on my nerves!!...before i did tho i got a glimse of the engineers report...and BMW had clearly stated on it "wait for version 29 and DONT put ver 27 on , unless client is insisting!"..i actually think it said "on no circumstances dont put v 27 on!"...but i cant remember?......anyway v 27 has softened the misfire...but not not got rid of it totally....so basically they new that back in Sept!!!! but were prepared to make me wait till DECEMBER for a fix

..think im going to try some pressure through the finance route as per bump

bump: think im going to try and get some thing back on the finance payments too, as i tend to agree, i think they wont replace it 3 months-in as the boys (opps apologies Beemerbird !) have suggested .

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Bumps

I don't want to try and over-dramatise this but I am now thinking of rejecting the car. I have little faith in it and I need to have complete faith in it (for my new job if nothing else as I'm at a pretty short notice throughout my time). Were the car used I could allow it some latitude maybe, but how is it acceptable for a brand new car to be off the road for approx 4 weeks after 3 months of ownership and under 3000 miles? And why are some owners being allowed to drive their cars with the fault?

I've seen a fair few people talk about rejecting cars, but in your case I think for once it is justified. The concept that you should wait a further 2 weeks for something which may not actually fix the car just does not compute.

I would insist on the following:

1. A replacement car free of charge to a very similar specification for as long as your car is off the road. BMW can provide this even if the dealer can't. If necessary one can be hired from a dealer offering a BMW hire service as BMW did for me when my 318 touring broke a valve.

2. Compensation for your inconvenience to date. For instance:

a. A proper apology
b. A goodwill gesture
c. If your car is financed by BMW, all finance payments to be waived until the vehicle is repaired

I would also want to know why other cars are on the road with this fault, but yours is not.

I'd be happy with the above, but I think for once you would be bang on with rejection. The problem is that this would potentially be more hassle for you.

[CrimsonRedE93]

Bumps, I am really sorry to hear about the problems you are having and am sure you will get them resolved in time as frustrating as it is

[Bumps]

NFS, Crimson, Yatesy - thanks fellas

Yatesy and Bells0 it's interesting to hear your experiences. What concerns me here is the inconsistency. It's almost as if the way I am being dealt with suggests that there's no way I should be driving the car, but others are being allowed to. Bells0, I think they are obviously happy to let you continue using it, and I wouldn't worry if you're doing any harm; if anyone is it's BMW, as they're the ones saying it's OK to drive.

On mine I haven't heard anything today. Am at home now as I have an appointment down in Portsmouth tomorrow, so I'm going to pop into Snows on the way back and have a chat (as I still haven't had a call back today).

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Bumps

NFS, Crimson, Yatesy - thanks fellas

Yatesy and Bells0 it's interesting to hear your experiences. What concerns me here is the inconsistency. It's almost as if the way I am being dealt with suggests that there's no way I should be driving the car, but others are being allowed to. Bells0, I think they are obviously happy to let you continue using it, and I wouldn't worry if you're doing any harm; if anyone is it's BMW, as they're the ones saying it's OK to drive.

On mine I haven't heard anything today. Am at home now as I have an appointment down in Portsmouth tomorrow, so I'm going to pop into Snows on the way back and have a chat (as I still haven't had a call back today).

I'd just put that question to them - Why is your car off the road when others are not?

If it were me I would be making a serious nuisance of myself, phoning every hour on the hour, until an acceptable free replacement car (BMW of similar specification) was provided.

They can do this (even if they say they can't) and if they wanted to could have one with you the same day.

Personally I wouldn't want the car back till it was fixed. So I would be concentrating first on getting myself back into a situation where this caused me no disruption. Then I would put the pressure on for timescales and serious comitment to get the car back on the road.

[garyhgaryh]

YOu know what would suck? If you had some sort of piggyback (procede, xede, whatever), and this happened. They could easily deny your warranty just because of it and then you would also blame the piggyback.

What to do.. what to do...
Gary