[kaigoss69]

No need to use 4 channels for the rears. Either connect only one pair, or connect them in parallel. Then you have enough channels for a center. But like Wongway said, the center is not needed to create a good center image. It seems you still don't understand completely the features of a digital processor. Using time delay to create proper imaging and an accurate sound stage, is one of the main features of processors.

[DrRobert]

No trunk sub. Factory speaker locations only. Still undecided about which brand of speakers, gonna figure out the amps first. Definitely want separate amp to power the undersead subs, though.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

No need to use 4 channels for the rears. Either connect only one pair, or connect them in parallel. Then you have enough channels for a center. But like Wongway said, the center is not needed to create a good center image. It seems you still don't understand completely the features of a digital processor. Using time delay to create proper imaging and an accurate sound stage, is one of the main features of processors.

You're right, I don't fully understand it. That's why I'm holding out a while, as I don't want to make any mistakes that will later need to be undone (like I did with the suspension). Was wondering if I could run all 4 sets of rear speakers off 2 channels, but wouldn't they only be getting half the power then? Maybe that's enough though, as I plan to replace the fronts and keep the HK rears, for now at least.

Thanks guys, really appreciate the help!

[Wongway]

Depending on the speakers, technically, you could be doubling the power sent to speakers...

Take a pair of subwoofers at 4ohms...
If you wired them together where the amp sees it as one speaker (wire to positive on one, negative to the other, making a 2ohm load), you effectively double the power.

Only issue you'd have in sending one channel per side to all the rear speakers is you'd have a bear of a time trying to accurately time align the sound coming out of them.

[kaigoss69]

The rears don't need to be time aligned individually. They are just for "fill" and don't really contribute to the front stage.

[Wongway]

My worry would be having the rears pull focus behind you. Though, granted I have no experience with that and just avoid the problem entirely...

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Wongway

I would have a good conversation with your installer about this, and seriously consider deleting the center channel. I'd also consider deleting a set of your rears, but I can understand the desire to keep those. (However, do keep in mind, in following with the same theory behind how music is recorded, the rear speakers actually hinder a proper tuning, as your tuner now has to fight the focus from going back behind you.)

This might open the door to a huge amount of possibilities in amp configuration depending on how much power you want to send to your subs.

Talked to my installer. He said he can tune it to create a center sound presence without a center channel. I also could delete the rear door speakers and just have the rear deck speakers (4" + tweeters) controlled by the fader. I do want to have a separate amp for the underseat subs so I can control them with a dedicated volume knob on the dash. He also confirmed my earlier question that that would reduce the number of available channels on the PP82DSP to 6.

The manual has a configuration example with the front tweeters and front mids each connected to their own channels. (i.e. 2 channels for front tweeters, 2 for front mids, 2 for rears, and the underseat subs with their own 2-channel amp) What is the advantage of giving the front tweeters and mids their own channels rather than connecting them both to the same channel?

[emoon3]

Running the tweeters and mids active (each havung their own amplification channel) allows you to fine tune the crossover points and output levels. Since you're going to use a DSP, this will give your installer more tools to make your setup sound just right.

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Talked to my installer. He said he can tune it to create a center sound presence without a center channel. I also could delete the rear door speakers and just have the rear deck speakers (4" + tweeters) controlled by the fader. I do want to have a separate amp for the underseat subs so I can control them with a dedicated volume knob on the dash. He also confirmed my earlier question that that would reduce the number of available channels on the PP82DSP to 6.

The manual has a configuration example with the front tweeters and front mids each connected to their own channels. (i.e. 2 channels for front tweeters, 2 for front mids, 2 for rears, and the underseat subs with their own 2-channel amp) What is the advantage of giving the front tweeters and mids their own channels rather than connecting them both to the same channel?

Each to their own channel= independent control of gain, eq, delay, phase, etc. With both on one channel, your limitations are much greater leaving you with just Left/Right gain and some eq. Midrange lowpass and tweeter highpass will also be dependent on the passive crossovers.

[DrRobert]

Sounds like that's the ticket then. I'll lose the center channel and the speakers in the rear doors, and have better sound up front by having the front door mids and tweeters on separate channels. The mids and tweeters on the rear deck will be on the same channel, but sounds like that doesn't matter as much.

Thanks again - you guys are awesome!!!

[cyberez]

sorry for asking a noobie question. if i install Helix PP82DSP, should i take out my oem hifi amp(not top hifi/hk)? since this is pnp should all my existing 9 speakers still sound as usual or i need do anything else. mine is 2013 f30.

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by cyberez

sorry for asking a noobie question. if i install Helix PP82DSP, should i take out my oem hifi amp(not top hifi/hk)? since this is pnp should all my existing 9 speakers still sound as usual or i need do anything else. mine is 2013 f30.

Probably not enough information to answer that question effectively...

Some of the others might know better than I do about the F30's audio system (This is an E90 board, but F30's might not be too far different from the E90's audio system), however, it might be nice to know what harness you're using if you think it's a straight plug and play...

[emoon3]

I used Technic's F30 harness in my install and it worked fine as far as I know 6spcoupe or mathematics would be able to speak more on that. Yes, you would remove the OEM amp and replace with the Helix.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by cyberez

sorry for asking a noobie question. if i install Helix PP82DSP, should i take out my oem hifi amp(not top hifi/hk)? since this is pnp should all my existing 9 speakers still sound as usual or i need do anything else. mine is 2013 f30.

I installed so far (2) PP82DSP in F30 HiFi... unplug OEM amp, plug PP82DSP.

100% PnP.

[cyberez]

thanks for all the replies. i havent made the purchase yet but is considering between xd600/6, xd800/8 and PP82DSP. since my dealer here in singapore have stock for PP82DSP with helix pp-ac13a pnp harness but it seems that they dont familiar with PP82DSP coz they told me PP82DSP is a piggy back to my oem amp which mean i will be running PP82DSP + oem amp. but i prefer the oem amp to be taken out and replace directly.

[mightycrown]

Originally Posted by cyberez

thanks for all the replies. i havent made the purchase yet but is considering between xd600/6, xd800/8 and PP82DSP. since my dealer here in singapore have stock for PP82DSP with helix pp-ac13a pnp harness but it seems that they dont familiar with PP82DSP coz they told me PP82DSP is a piggy back to my oem amp which mean i will be running PP82DSP + oem amp. but i prefer the oem amp to be taken out and replace directly.

No he is wrong, it is not a piggy back but a standalone DSP with amp of 8 channels. Like Technic said it is plug and play with his harness, you will need to connect the harness to the 4 individual speaker output channels. but the front and rear channels are fixed.

Speaking from my experience, I got the base 6 speakers so I had to get the 5 meter cable set (a shorter one is included in the package) and helix harness.

[cyberez]

thanks again, i need to contact Technic for the harness.

[mightycrown]

Originally Posted by mathematics

HiFi system. A and B are tweeters, C and D are Midranges, E and F are under-seats. Jehnert Flatline kit.

Hi Mathematics,
Since you have installed this unit to a Hifi system. does the auto on and off (power saving mode) work ok? At the moment, I have it installed with my stereo. But I found the High range are too bright from my tweeters, and the mid range is not decent no matter how I tune the crossover and EQ. I am thinking to code my stereo to Hifi. But the technician from Helix wrote that the auto turn on mode might be unstable. Did you use the included cable harness?
see the message from him:
thank you for contacting us directly.

You are right, the best signal to work with at BMW car audio systems is when the head unit is coded to the Hifi System. In that case the original head unit is delivering a 5 Volts balanced signal which is completely flat. In this case the automatic turn on function is nor working any more stable so it is strongly recommended to use a remote signal to switch the amplifier on. Therefore you have to reconfigure the rem out into a rem in by changing a jumper position, see attachment.


Best regards

Julian Fischer

AUDIOTEC FISCHER GmbH
Hünegräben 26
D-57392 Schmallenberg

[paul223]

Originally Posted by Technic

I installed so far (2) PP82DSP in F30 HiFi... unplug OEM amp, plug PP82DSP.

100% PnP.

How does it sound? Any tips on setup? I have ordered harness for this from you.

I am thinking about running active Left front, center, Right front, two under seats.

[ctuna]

Technic whats your review on the two you installed?
Did you use the stock speakers?
How did you use the channels?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by paul223

How does it sound? Any tips on setup? I have ordered harness for this from you.

I am thinking about running active Left front, center, Right front, two under seats.

PP82DSP using OEM speakers shows improved clarity, loudness and bass deepness over the OEM amp. Adding the center speaker in an E92 makes the front stage more focused and elevates the voices above the shoulders via custom tuning.

The OEM tweeters continue to be disappointing (E92 and F30), even tuning the PP82DSP to compensate (which was a bit too much boost to my taste), IMO. The end result is definitely better than OEM amp, however replacing the OEM tweeters still shows significant improvement in the highs fidelity and even better voice clarity.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by ctuna

Technic whats your review on the two you installed?
Did you use the stock speakers?
How did you use the channels?

Both aftermarket and OEM speakers were tested with this unit. Definitely aftermarket speakers sound better, however to me the biggest difference is in the OEM tweeters replacement as stated above. OEM mids and even the OEM woofers show improved impact and loudness after tuning.

The F30 OEM woofers are definitely inferior to the E9X OEM woofers. They sound less "bassy" than the E9x OEM woofers with aftermarket power, which most probably is due to the F30 OEM woofers being physically shallower than the E9x's and the use of DSP in the F30 OEM amp. That DSP F30 OEM amp must be doing some bass tricks on those OEM woofers because the factory tuning is more simulated sub bass than mid bass. Lots of bass reverberations giving the impression of bass deepness until volume is raised and the OEM amp and the OEM woofer quickly start clipping and complaining. The PP82DSP swap removes whatever the OEM amp was doing with the woofers and make then sound more like solid/quick mid bass drivers. This is not noticed with the E9x woofers, they become louder and deeper than the non-DSP OEM amp with the PP82DSP.

Again, the major improvement over the OEM amp is clarity and definition. It is the first thing to be noticed after tuning. And this is without any processing like Logic7, DIRAC or simulated room environment. It is just a great DSP chip inside. Power output is solid considering how small is this unit;, it can be loud and tight with OEM speakers.

Channel configuration was Front - Rear - Center - Left Woofer - Right Woofer - Sub (separate amp), in this channel order.