[sprp85]

A quick question:

Will I have to perform 3sIM flash again if I were to get integration level updated post 3sIM flash from bimmerlabs?

[hassmaschine]

it depends on if updating the whole car overwrites what's on the DME. there's not much point to doing that IMO, since the latest version is already used, but if you want to update the whole car I'm going to guess yes, you'll have to flash it again (both the RSA delete and tune).

[eurocarfan100]

Originally Posted by E92William

After driving the car with the mafless tune, I think I should have done it from the start. Car is more responsive, more peppy and the gas pedal input feels more inline with engine response than stock or 330i tune. Only downside is the cruise control not working. Car is on stock maf sensor.

Another thing I quite liked is that, on cold starts the mafless tune starts up like a normal 328i would. The 330i tune tends to rev the engine to almost 2k upon cold start up. Maybe it was only for my car but It particularly bothered me specially on a dead cold engine.

For example in this video upon start, instead of revving to 1300 at first it'd do 1800.

I am running the Mafless tune as well, for me though the cold starts are rough. When it's warm, it starts up normally, but cold it shakes the rpm and jitters a bit. Once I did not drive it for 2 days and it started and shut off because it was quite rough. Didn't have much problems on the 330i stock tune, just curious if I installed the manifold right?

[Skoidat69]

Originally Posted by eurocarfan100

I am running the Mafless tune as well, for me though the cold starts are rough. When it's warm, it starts up normally, but cold it shakes the rpm and jitters a bit. Once I did not drive it for 2 days and it started and shut off because it was quite rough. Didn't have much problems on the 330i stock tune, just curious if I installed the manifold right?

I got a similar hiccup at first start of the day

[E92_William]

Originally Posted by eurocarfan100

I am running the Mafless tune as well, for me though the cold starts are rough. When it's warm, it starts up normally, but cold it shakes the rpm and jitters a bit. Once I did not drive it for 2 days and it started and shut off because it was quite rough. Didn't have much problems on the 330i stock tune, just curious if I installed the manifold right?

Your manifold is installed right if this only happens on cold start. This is a well documented hiccup with the MAFless tune on msv80. Recently flashed the MAF 330 file on a buddy's 328 which had the MAFless up until now and he was getting the rough cold starts, immediately stopped from switching to the MAF one

[dwsavenko]

On the cold start issue, I have ran Hass’s tunes for a couple years now and yes it does seem on MSV80 the stock 330i tune at first start up does not run smooth for 5-15 seconds. Even after warmed up on consecutive starts it will “hunt”. Now this could be because of CCV changed on later cars (this tune was created with the earlier MSV70 cars which had slightly different parts), or because BMW themselves updated a cold start issue on later stock DME tunes. I know Hass said he doesn’t have a later MSV80 to test on, so it might be fine on his. It’s bad enough where I wouldn’t sell my car with the issue as you could go down a hole chasing to fix it. With stock tunes it is not an issue. I have A/B’ed many times to verify. As others noted it does seem to be amplified with spring / summer ambient temps. I did not notice it as much in the winter. It sucks because it really takes away the joy of starting the car up. I have actually been running the latest stock tune recently because it bothered me too much. Alas, I miss the extra torque. No free lunch... yet.

[hassmaschine]

The 330i tune for MSV80 is *not* based on MSV70. Also, nothing in cold starts etc. is modified from the stock MSV80 tune.

It's interesting that people are reporting this now, because these have been basically unchanged for several years, with hundreds of people running them (it's been downloaded over 800 times, to give you an idea - and that's just the standard 328i version). I have heard of some hiccups but there's basically no reason that cold starts should be affected at all, and none of those people ever said anything before.

[eurocarfan100]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

The 330i tune for MSV80 is *not* based on MSV70. Also, nothing in cold starts etc. is modified from the stock MSV80 tune.

It's interesting that people are reporting this now, because these have been basically unchanged for several years, with hundreds of people running them (it's been downloaded over 800 times, to give you an idea - and that's just the standard 328i version). I have heard of some hiccups but there's basically no reason that cold starts should be affected at all, and none of those people ever said anything before.

Noticed same thing, some people are running smooth, but some are running rough only in cold start though, otherwise it’s very smooth once warmed.

I’m having a feeling maybe spark plugs need to be replaced as well. Definitely noticeable difference, but not much oomph as people described in their upgrades. Definitely gonna take a look at spark plugs as it’s cheap to replace. Maybe as spark plugs are worn out, may not be as efficient to run based on tune requirements I guess.

[Reaktiv]

hello, I would like to receive modification 528> 530 for my e60 msv80, but in my account I do not see such firmware, except for RSA delete. tell me in which direction to move?

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Reaktiv

hello, I would like to receive modification 528> 530 for my e60 msv80, but in my account I do not see such firmware, except for RSA delete. tell me in which direction to move?

That would mean that there is no free 530 3 stage tune for the MSV80 ECUs(likely as there is much less of a market than the E90/E82).

Your best shot is to order a tune thru bimmerlabs (won't be free) and you may as well get a performance one

[Virtual Factoid]

I have a question for the gurus in this forum, particularly hassmaschine: I am all setup for a bimmerlabs tune on my 328xi. I have both K+DCAN cable for my regular laptop with bimmergeeks software as well as a separate dedicated laptop with ICOM interface that I bought fully loaded with INPA, WinKfp, ISTA etc. Both setups work fine. I have used either-or to do coding on different modules in the past with no issues. However, I have never flashed before. I have heard that DME flashing like RSA Delete is significantly faster over the ICOM interface but 99% of DIY-er folks do it with K+DCAN instead.

Is there a good reason why K+DCAN is recommended over ICOM other than cost? Is K+DCAN more tried-and-tested and hence more reliable of the two?

[hassmaschine]

On some modules, cheaper K+DCAN cables can cause corruption and failed flashes - this is because the cable's firmware has bugs that ends up sending garbage data. Mostly this affects transmission modules and DMEs like MSS60 and MSS65.

For any E90 based DME, they are not that sensitive and are not affected by this issue. The cheap cables will work. But, the cheap cables can be a lot slower (due to those same bugs). In those cases a charger might be needed to keep the battery from dying during the flash process.

Normally, even if the battery died - nothing will happen. You can't erase or overwrite the boot code, which handles flashing. So even if the flash totally fails, your DME isn't really "bricked". You can restart the flash process and recover the dme.

Typically, a good cable will flash the RSA delete in 10-15 minutes, and subsequent calibrations/tunes in under a minute (RSA delete is only done once).

An ICOM might be marginally quicker but I doubt it. There's a limit to the flashing speed by the CPU itself. Even flashing the DME directly with the BDM port is actually slower than flashing with a cheap OBD cable. The main benefit to the ICOM cables is they were never subject to the bad firmware programming that a lot of the early and cloned cables had. I'm not sure about ICOM clones though.

Cables with the updated firmware are just as good as an ICOM - but right now the Bimmergeeks cable is out of stock. Not sure what the issue is there, probably supply issues like everything else these days.

[Virtual Factoid]

Thanks hassmaschine. Yeah, my ICOM is one of those clones so I think I will take your advice and go with Bimmergeeks cable (I have that already). I have a 100-Amp charger so running out of juice in the middle of a flash is not an issue...... unless we lose mains power and there's a meteoroid strike and there's zombie apocalypse all at the same time, in which case a dead DME would be the least of my problems.

Appreciate the detailed explanation.

[Virtual Factoid]

Update: Just did the tune with K+DCAN cable today. I used a Win-7 laptop so I am not sure if this has something to do with that but I ran into something quite strange: the copy commands in the batch files were not doing anything. I am referring to lines like this: "copy MSV80.ctl C:\EC-APPS\NFS\BIN\MSV80.ctl". The file was not copied and when WinKfp was auto-launched, it threw a permanent popup saying "waiting for control file". The solution was easy though. All I did was to edit the batch file (for both RSA Delete and the batch file for the tune) and instead of "copy filename.ext C:\destinationFolder\filename.ext", I entered path for the source file as well, i.e., like "copy c:\sourceFolderPath\filename.ext C:\destinationFolderPath\filename.ext".
The files existed in the same folder as the batch file so I am not sure what was going on and why I was forced to do that.

[sprp85]

Thanks to many guides and Hassmaschine himself, I buttoned up 3SIM along with some other 100k maintenance items; everything has been fairly straight forward.

One question is, GM1912 flash- have those been removed from Bimmerlabs until further notice? I see two GM1912 listed but all contain the same stock HW#/ZB#; but no tune available?

[Reaktiv]

Originally Posted by neilvan

That would mean that there is no free 530 3 stage tune for the MSV80 ECUs(likely as there is much less of a market than the E90/E82).

Your best shot is to order a tune thru bimmerlabs (won't be free) and you may as well get a performance one

why can't I upload firmware 328> 330? the motors are the same

[E92_William]

Maybe it has a different way of communicating with modules or something? Friend of my brother has a 528 he wants to tune to 530, idk if he's willing to have me try and force a 330 tune into his car though lol

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by E92_William

Maybe it has a different way of communicating with modules or something? Friend of my brother has a 528 he wants to tune to 530, idk if he's willing to have me try and force a 330 tune into his car though lol

Are you trying to force a MSV70 tune for a 330 into a MSV80 328 or 528. That won't work. Engines might be the same but the DME is different.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by sprp85

Thanks to many guides and Hassmaschine himself, I buttoned up 3SIM along with some other 100k maintenance items; everything has been fairly straight forward.

One question is, GM1912 flash- have those been removed from Bimmerlabs until further notice? I see two GM1912 listed but all contain the same stock HW#/ZB#; but no tune available?

It's been removed for a while. I'm not sure if/when I will put it back, there's too much risk and no reward. I've been maintaining the site as-is to keep existing downloads available, but I haven't worked on anything new in a long time. I do have plans to refresh everything but it's not a priority at the moment.

Originally Posted by Reaktiv

why can't I upload firmware 328> 330? the motors are the same

Because MSV70 is not the same as MSV80. The motor is irrelevant. The binary files are completely different between DMEs. Even slight changes in software between the same DME causes a different format for the calibrations.

If you mean modifying a 528i DME to work like a 530i, that can be done. But I've been asked about it maybe 4 times in the last 6 years, so it's just not worth the effort. Maybe if I'm bored one day, I find time to make one.

Originally Posted by rjahl

Are you trying to force a MSV70 tune for a 330 into a MSV80 328 or 528. That won't work. Engines might be the same but the DME is different.

Yeah, you already know this (I'm quoting you for clarity!), but the MSV80 "330i" tune is a 328i stock tune, but with the relevant parameters copied over from the stock 330i to effectively make an MSV80 "330i" tune. It's hard to explain this to people, because it's not even a literal copy and paste or something, like copying text from a word document, or even copying binary data exactly.

Everything is a different format (little endian/big endian), all the offsets are different, and some of the tables are even a different size or don't even exist (or there are new ones that need to be adjusted). It's "easy" to do, but at the same time it takes work, and there's just not much reward for doing it except to hear people complaining.

Another thing is the new crackdowns from the EPA and CARB on tunes. I know how it works and know how to get around it (it's laughably trivial), but there's a lot of risk and I'm not sure it's even worth it anymore.

[E92_William]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Are you trying to force a MSV70 tune for a 330 into a MSV80 328 or 528. That won't work. Engines might be the same but the DME is different.

I mean a tune from an msv80 328 to 330 into a 528 with msv80. (The 528 has msv80 afaik correct?)

Also the EPA can kick rocks, here in Florida the government isn't concerned with insignificant things such as some dude putting a tune on his car, polluting basically nothing

[hassmaschine]

that won't work either. They are similar but there are several key parameters that are different on the E60 and E90.

[Reaktiv]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Because MSV70 is not the same as MSV80. The motor is irrelevant. The binary files are completely different between DMEs.

both machines have msv80, I have already uploaded file 328> 330 to my 528> 530 and after encoding there are not even errors, but the car does not drive well, there is a big loss of power. I do not understand what is the difference, because the engines and the control unit are the same