Tech Info: E90 330i N52 Three-Stage Intake Manifold

SR|RED · 03-13-2010, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

I have powerchip's tune now. The throttle isn't touchy it's weird. Anything past 3000rpm at less than full throttle, the car feels like it's misfiring. Click on the cruise control and it stops. Also while it's doing its pretend misfire, if I floor it, there's about a 2 second delay before I get full throttle. If I go from no throttle to full throttle, it's fine as well. I'm not sure what the PowerBox would do, but it costs money and I'm trying to see if I can fix it without spending any.

As far as the actuators go, I pluged them in when I had the old manifold and the 330 tune. Both of them opened and closed at the proper rpm.

About the exhaust, all the the part numbers are the same. I read somewhere that the 325i and a more restrictive exhaust but I can't explain the part numbers.

Oh well... Maybe I'll go kill some time and make a video of the weird throttle issue.

If you decide to make a video it might be cool to see a 3rd Gear 3K - 5K pull like the PBX Videos. It would be easy for me to compare against my own car.

e90pilot · 03-15-2010, 07:58 PM

Wow... I didn't know that making such a simple video could be such a PITA. First, 3rd gear at at 3000rpm is really slow and scarry on the freeway. 5000 is fine. Also, none of the videos came out right except for one and I didn't start at exactly 3000rpm. I recorded it on an iPhone at night so the quality isn't that great. Worst of all, you can't notice the throttle issue on the video at all. You need to be in the car to feel it. Maybe I'll take a video of a G-meter. Lastly Photobucket resized the video so it's all wide.

One of my friends has an HD camera that I can borrow. I'll try to get a better recording during the day.

Here's the only video that came out decent. I'm counting about 4.7sec:

SR|RED · 03-15-2010, 08:13 PM

Nice. Even if you start the video a little early we can manually time it for the RPM range.

I'll make a comparo vid from the my stock 325i.

e90pilot · 03-17-2010, 07:22 PM

Update: finally got a hold of Powerchip. They're sending my file to HQ in Australia to have thier new tech take a look. The old tech was caught selling data to a competing company and was subsequently fired. Once they get it sorted, I'll be shipping my ECU out.

SR|RED · 03-18-2010, 02:03 AM

Great to hear!

SR|RED · 03-21-2010, 11:19 PM

Can someone recap for me what the problem was with the original posters when they reflashed their ECU to 330i software?

I had a chance to talk with the Service Dept. at my local dealer. They said they wouldn't have a problem with reflashing my ECU with the 330i software, simply that I would be paying the hourly rate.

With all of the appropriate hardware modifications wouldn't this be the simplest way to free up the bottleneck in the software?

e90pilot · 03-22-2010, 12:24 AM

It should work. The only issue is the fact the your car may not accept the 330 software because it is not for your car. If there is a way to override that feature, the dealership should know how to do it. You can drive your car with the software and no new manifold.

e90pilot · 04-04-2010, 04:23 AM

Well I "dynoed" my car meaning I dynolicioused my car. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, it's an iPhone app that measures acceleration and can estimate horsepower. I did three runs and and it estimated 189HP 193HP and 183HP to the wheels. I have absolutly no idea how accurate it is but I'm guessing it's not perfect. It was about 50F but I don't know what the humidity was. I have to edit the pics so those will follow later.

c_jeong89 · 04-04-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Well I "dynoed" my car meaning I dynolicioused my car. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, it's an iPhone app that measures acceleration and can estimate horsepower. I did three runs and and it estimated 189HP 193HP and 183HP to the wheels. I have absolutly no idea how accurate it is but I'm guessing it's not perfect. It was about 50F but I don't know what the humidity was. I have to edit the pics so those will follow later.

haha damn I didn't even know they had an app to that lol.

SR|RED · 04-05-2010, 02:54 AM

I've used that app before. The 1/4' times are actually quite accurate, but the horsepower estimates were completely off. It showed my buddies IS300 to only be producing 130 bhp, and it's just as quick as my 325i. What % driveline loss did you enter, and is this hp at the crank or at the wheels?

e90pilot · 04-05-2010, 05:16 AM

I entered 0 for drivetrain loss which means it's in WHP. Basically it estimates HP by simple highshool physics. Power = Force x Velocity. If you tell it your car's weight, it can estimate about how much force is being exerted by the rear wheels with the accelerometer in the phone (Force = mass x Acceleration). You give it mass and it measures acceleration. Also, from acceleration it can derive speed. It can only estimate velocity and force. With a precise enough accelerometer, these can actually be calculated fairly acturately. Many airliners that don't have GPS use this as a way of navigation when ground based stations are out of range (such as flying over the Atlantic or Pacific). A dyno actually measures the both directly. The numbers by themselves are not too useful because the app measures HP in a different way than a dyno. If you really wanted to make a good comparison, you would need to get a hold of another car and run the same test using my phone (different phone behave differently) in the same location and similar weather conditions. Here are the charts it produced. I wasn't trying to get the fastest times, I was just trying to get some HP numbers.

e90pilot · 04-08-2010, 08:41 PM

Well after much anticipation I got the car dynoed! I have videos and pics as well but I need to be on a computer for that as I can't do much with my iPhone. Here are the results:

Run1: 206.45 whp and 189.95 ft-lbs tq
Run2: 207.85 whp and 186.30 ft-lbs tq
Run3: 210.00 whp and 187.21 ft-lbs tq
Run4: 209.22 whp and 188.19 ft-lbs tq

A 15% drivetrain loss puts me just shy of 250 hp and 220 ft-lbs tq at the crank. Hey I'd say it worked.

SR|RED · 04-11-2010, 10:43 PM

That's awesome.

Has the throttle issue been resolved at this point?

Is the same mapping you applied available through Powerchip?

e90pilot · 04-12-2010, 06:47 AM

They said they have a new version ready for me. It's going in later this week.

driverman · 04-15-2010, 11:25 AM

Great thread. Many thanks to the pioneers that have tried to get this mod working. Please keep us posted.

Here's an interesting quote from the latest Bentley service manual that covers the 2006-2009 325, 328, 330 and 335:

"N52 engines in 328i/xi and 330i/xi models are equipped with 3-stage variable intake runners in a system knows as DISA". It goes on to explain how it works.

e90pilot · 04-15-2010, 03:31 PM

Interesting. I just checked www.realoem.com and the disa motors are not listed as parts and the intake manifold part number is for the single stage. This is for the N52N spec engine (US model 3.0L). The N51 (Euro spec engine) has the 3 stage intake manifold and disa motors listed. I did not know that. The N51 is also available in the US spec cars according to the site but I don't know which cars have them.

michaelthepsycho · 04-20-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

The N51 is also available in the US spec cars according to the site but I don't know which cars have them.

N51 = SULEV spec. Mainly in California and some other tree-hugging states. I ordered mine specifically without the emissions bullsh*t. N52 ULEV all the way. I'm really curious as to the viability of this mod (along with an ECU flash) to make a 328i into a 330i. I know the 325i works but haven't gotten a solid comfirmation about the 328i's.

spacemonkey1112 · 05-26-2010, 04:48 AM

2 hours of my life I'll never get back. Sad face.

I'm at getBMWparts.com and I searched up 2006 BMW 330i Intake Manifold and for $483 you get the following:

Fuel system - Fuel induction - Intake - Intake manifold

Whats missing besides the ECU reflash? I mean seriously... this much time has passed and nothing... WHOSE DICK DO YOU GOTTA SUCK AT YOUR BMW DEALERSHIP FOR THEM TO JUST BYPASS THIS DAMN ECU FIXUP?!?!!

B_2_B_P · 08-20-2010, 04:45 AM

So there are a LOT of post in this and other post about the stage 3 manifold. I just wanted to post to get some clareification/help on somethings. For my 128i can I do this mod? Can I just get the 130/330i tune to make it work or is there special software i need? Are parts in this post exactly what I need...no more/no less?

strati1 · 11-07-2010, 11:08 PM

^plus1

e90pilot · 11-07-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strati1

^plus1

Click the 330i conversion like in my sig for the parts list. All you need are the parts listed there and a tune from your choice of tuning company. Currently I have Gintani's tune.

josephbet01 · 02-20-2011, 02:35 PM

Did we ever confirm if this 3 Stage swap would work on a 328i?

03-15-2010, 07:58 PM	#684
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Wow... I didn't know that making such a simple video could be such a PITA. First, 3rd gear at at 3000rpm is really slow and scarry on the freeway. 5000 is fine. Also, none of the videos came out right except for one and I didn't start at exactly 3000rpm. I recorded it on an iPhone at night so the quality isn't that great. Worst of all, you can't notice the throttle issue on the video at all. You need to be in the car to feel it. Maybe I'll take a video of a G-meter. Lastly Photobucket resized the video so it's all wide. One of my friends has an HD camera that I can borrow. I'll try to get a better recording during the day. Here's the only video that came out decent. I'm counting about 4.7sec: __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-15-2010, 08:13 PM	#685
SR\|RED Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 92' 180SX Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Nice. Even if you start the video a little early we can manually time it for the RPM range. I'll make a comparo vid from the my stock 325i.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-17-2010, 07:22 PM	#686
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Update: finally got a hold of Powerchip. They're sending my file to HQ in Australia to have thier new tech take a look. The old tech was caught selling data to a competing company and was subsequently fired. Once they get it sorted, I'll be shipping my ECU out. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-18-2010, 02:03 AM	#687
SR\|RED Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 92' 180SX Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Great to hear!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-21-2010, 11:19 PM	#688
SR\|RED Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 92' 180SX Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	Can someone recap for me what the problem was with the original posters when they reflashed their ECU to 330i software? I had a chance to talk with the Service Dept. at my local dealer. They said they wouldn't have a problem with reflashing my ECU with the 330i software, simply that I would be paying the hourly rate. With all of the appropriate hardware modifications wouldn't this be the simplest way to free up the bottleneck in the software?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-22-2010, 12:24 AM	#689
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	It should work. The only issue is the fact the your car may not accept the 330 software because it is not for your car. If there is a way to override that feature, the dealership should know how to do it. You can drive your car with the software and no new manifold. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-04-2010, 04:23 AM	#690
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Well I "dynoed" my car meaning I dynolicioused my car. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, it's an iPhone app that measures acceleration and can estimate horsepower. I did three runs and and it estimated 189HP 193HP and 183HP to the wheels. I have absolutly no idea how accurate it is but I'm guessing it's not perfect. It was about 50F but I don't know what the humidity was. I have to edit the pics so those will follow later. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-05-2010, 02:54 AM	#692
SR\|RED Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 92' 180SX Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	I've used that app before. The 1/4' times are actually quite accurate, but the horsepower estimates were completely off. It showed my buddies IS300 to only be producing 130 bhp, and it's just as quick as my 325i. What % driveline loss did you enter, and is this hp at the crank or at the wheels?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-05-2010, 05:16 AM	#693
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	I entered 0 for drivetrain loss which means it's in WHP. Basically it estimates HP by simple highshool physics. Power = Force x Velocity. If you tell it your car's weight, it can estimate about how much force is being exerted by the rear wheels with the accelerometer in the phone (Force = mass x Acceleration). You give it mass and it measures acceleration. Also, from acceleration it can derive speed. It can only estimate velocity and force. With a precise enough accelerometer, these can actually be calculated fairly acturately. Many airliners that don't have GPS use this as a way of navigation when ground based stations are out of range (such as flying over the Atlantic or Pacific). A dyno actually measures the both directly. The numbers by themselves are not too useful because the app measures HP in a different way than a dyno. If you really wanted to make a good comparison, you would need to get a hold of another car and run the same test using my phone (different phone behave differently) in the same location and similar weather conditions. Here are the charts it produced. I wasn't trying to get the fastest times, I was just trying to get some HP numbers. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2010, 08:41 PM	#694
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Well after much anticipation I got the car dynoed! I have videos and pics as well but I need to be on a computer for that as I can't do much with my iPhone. Here are the results: Run1: 206.45 whp and 189.95 ft-lbs tq Run2: 207.85 whp and 186.30 ft-lbs tq Run3: 210.00 whp and 187.21 ft-lbs tq Run4: 209.22 whp and 188.19 ft-lbs tq A 15% drivetrain loss puts me just shy of 250 hp and 220 ft-lbs tq at the crank. Hey I'd say it worked. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-11-2010, 10:43 PM	#695
SR\|RED Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: 92' 180SX Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Calgary iTrader: (0)	That's awesome. Has the throttle issue been resolved at this point? Is the same mapping you applied available through Powerchip?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-12-2010, 06:47 AM	#696
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	They said they have a new version ready for me. It's going in later this week. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2010, 11:25 AM	#697
driverman Captain 38 Rep 715 Posts Drives: 2008 328i 6MT - SOLD Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: El Dorado Hills, CA iTrader: (0)	Great thread. Many thanks to the pioneers that have tried to get this mod working. Please keep us posted. Here's an interesting quote from the latest Bentley service manual that covers the 2006-2009 325, 328, 330 and 335: "N52 engines in 328i/xi and 330i/xi models are equipped with 3-stage variable intake runners in a system knows as DISA". It goes on to explain how it works.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2010, 03:31 PM	#698
e90pilot Freight Dawg 105 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Interesting. I just checked www.realoem.com and the disa motors are not listed as parts and the intake manifold part number is for the single stage. This is for the N52N spec engine (US model 3.0L). The N51 (Euro spec engine) has the 3 stage intake manifold and disa motors listed. I did not know that. The N51 is also available in the US spec cars according to the site but I don't know which cars have them. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-26-2010, 04:48 AM	#700
spacemonkey1112 Captain 65 Rep 954 Posts Drives: E90 325i AW Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 818, CA iTrader: (0)	2 hours of my life I'll never get back. Sad face. I'm at getBMWparts.com and I searched up 2006 BMW 330i Intake Manifold and for $483 you get the following: Fuel system - Fuel induction - Intake - Intake manifold Whats missing besides the ECU reflash? I mean seriously... this much time has passed and nothing... WHOSE DICK DO YOU GOTTA SUCK AT YOUR BMW DEALERSHIP FOR THEM TO JUST BYPASS THIS DAMN ECU FIXUP?!?!!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2010, 04:45 AM	#701
B_2_B_P Private First Class 18 Rep 196 Posts Drives: 128i Sport /w PDC and ComAcc Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 128i [0.00]	So there are a LOT of post in this and other post about the stage 3 manifold. I just wanted to post to get some clareification/help on somethings. For my 128i can I do this mod? Can I just get the 130/330i tune to make it work or is there special software i need? Are parts in this post exactly what I need...no more/no less? __________________ Black Badge - Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 18" - ASA AR1 18" - B&M Short Shifter - aFe Stage 2 CAI Pro 5 R - Gloss Black Kidney Grills - Performance Pedal Kit - CDV delete - Custom Tint - Bastuck Exhaust w/o Silencer - Custom Tune
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-07-2010, 11:08 PM	#702
strati1 Lieutenant 30 Rep 457 Posts Drives: a slow car fast Join Date: May 2010 Location: DFW/SoCal iTrader: (0)	^plus1
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-20-2011, 02:35 PM	#704
josephbet01 Private First Class 9 Rep 112 Posts Drives: E93 328i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: York, PA iTrader: (0)	Did we ever confirm if this 3 Stage swap would work on a 328i?
	Appreciate 0 Quote