[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I think the force of government will be dialed back on promoting EVs. The EV makes/market will find a middle ground and the whole thing will evolve and move forward in something more of a center path instead of either extreme.

Their other strategy is to just make the pure ICE car regulatory environment so burdensome and annoying that manufacturers give up on ICE entirely, while the gubamint says "wE dIDn'T bAn GaS cArZ" which they're already saying. But again, the automakers that are going along with this are playing chicken with each other, and betting their entire companies on it. And it seems that they're already starting to blink.

I do think the same, though.

Personally, I think the sweet spot of the market is a regular ol hybrid vehicle and not even a PHEV. Significant improvements in fuel efficiency while minimizing the added cost to the consumer. Have said it a few times in here, but I think Toyota had it right with their hybrid technology 25 years ago, and I still think they have it right today. Their hybrid engines pushing 40% thermal efficiency match what you get from the grid, while weighing 500-1000lbs less than a BEV, and consuming less energy overall.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Ask Scotland and the UK with the ULEV zones how the center path is going. The Green Insanity is a cult, they do not go back. They can be voted out, maybe, but the indoctrination is strong.

ULEV is its own issue.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You're not paying attention then.

I have read many articles on this. I can't pay more attention to it though. I'm tapped out. I will plan to stay at my present level of staying fairly well informed on the topic and the impacts and the stakeholders in this policy.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

from the land of the strange

EV owners say their cars are making them SICK - as driver claims her Tesla caused her nose bleeds, 'debilitating' body pains and hair loss
15 May 2024
There are growing reports of electric car drivers suffering motion sickness, dizziness and nausea from the vehicles' braking and acceleration systems.

And a former Tesla owner has claimed that she experienced nosebleeds, hair loss and 'debilitating' body pains while using the vehicle she purchased in 2021.

While she was not entirely sure the Tesla was at fault, the Georgia resident and said her symptoms disappeared after selling the car.

Tesla has been accused of being the 'worst offender' for causing motion sickness from its one-pedal throttle because they can be 'very jerky and really abrupt,' Ed Kim, president and chief analyst of AutoPacific told ABC News.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ick-Tesla.html

OK EV's cause hair loss? Sometimes you just need to understand that your customer base is a fry short of a happy meal?

Go back a few pages where I was laughed at for pointing out people have EMF sensitivity and that high emf fields that these cars can put out can make people sick.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Well, EV'ers rejoice, hydrogen car that will have a higher death by fire rate than EV's and a 1971 shitbox Pinto.

As long as EVs aren’t as bad as ICE for fires then I’m cool.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin...h=1ea195e41dd6

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Try again, DEATH BY FIRE, Ev's are worse than a shitbox 1971 Pinto.

Where is your data on EV fire death rate vs ICE fire death rate?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

As long as EVs aren’t as bad as ICE for fires then I’m cool.

I'll take a ICE fire any day before an EV thermal runaway. Don't make me post the Paris burning bus video again!

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I'll take a ICE fire any day before an EV thermal runaway. Don't make me post the Paris burning bus video again!

I posted it yesterday. 🤣

No one has posted it today. I’ll take a logarithmic reduction in fires with EVs versus ICE. I can see having differing takes on this since EV fires are harder to put out.

[Car-Addicted]

Nothing to see here, Move along.

BYD Reportedly Sees 10th Showroom Fire Since 2021 As Store Burns Down In China
05/16/2024
BYD blames old wiring in the store's roof for the fire, but reports indicate that its showrooms catch fire pretty frequently.


In October 2021, a fire broke out in a BYD 4S store in Hainan.
In April 2022, a fire broke out in a BYD 4S store in Shaoguan, Guangdong.
In May 2022, a fire broke out in the after-sales workshop of a BYD 4S store in Hengshui, Hebei Province.
On July 9, 2022, a fire broke out in a BYD 4S store in Xingning District, Nanning City, Guangxi.
On November 18, 2022, a fire broke out in BYD’s Phase 3 F6 factory building in Daya Bay West District.
On December 8, 2022, a BYD 4S store caught fire near Gongye Road in Erqi District, Zhengzhou City, Henan Province.
On June 1, 2023, a fire broke out in the material area of Workshop No. 1 at BYD’s Pangguan production base.
In May 2023, a fire broke out in a BYD 4S store in Jiangmen, Guangdong.
In December 2023, a fire broke out in a BYD 4S store in Tiexi District, Shenyang, Liaoning.
On December 18, 2023, a fire broke out in the BYD 4S store in Xinmaoyuan, Chengdu, Sichuan.
On December 30, 2023, a fire broke out in the exhibition hall of a BYD 4S store in Changhua, Binzhou, Shandong.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/by...down-in-china/

[SteVTEC]

Honda Stands Firm on Full Electrification Efforts

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...ation-efforts/

• In a new roadmap showing Honda's investment and production plans moving forward, the automaker doubled down on full electrification, re-committing to 100 percent EV and FCEV sales by 2040.
• The automaker is putting a central focus on battery technology and plans to invest over $60 billion in electrification through 2030.
• Additionally, the company aims to reduce battery costs by more than 20 percent compared to today's pricing, while also reducing overall production costs by 35 percent.

Selling electric vehicles is hard. At least, it is in the United States where it's never been harder to buy a single-family home and some people's commute is equivalent to a small European country. Those roadblocks aren't stopping Honda though, with the automaker doubling down on electrification and re-committing to 100 percent EV and FCEV sales by 2040.

-----------------

Of all the automakers, I'm actually most eager to see Honda go full EV. From their lame naturally aspirated engines that have zero torque below 5000rpm, to their garbage automatic transmissions, to their even more garbage CVT transmissions, and now castrating their lineup by getting rid of the few good powertrains they might have had, they might as well just throw in the damned towel already and go EV!

The new Toyota Prius is faster than the damned Honda Civic SI. Come the f*** on Honda!!!!!

The CTR is about the only good vehicle they make at the moment, and even the Civic has turned into a massive car that's bigger than the Accord I used to have. Honda needs to rethink their entire lineup. Going full EV could only help them at this point.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Well, EV'ers rejoice, hydrogen car that will have a higher death by fire rate than EV's and a 1971 shitbox Pinto.

Nothing wrong with a 1971 shitbox Pinto. Everything is mechanical. I can get out of the car by opening the door in less than 2 seconds

[Car-Addicted]

The EU folks are stupid, the questions how stupid are we?

If They Let China Get Away with THIS They’re Crazy
This guy has it right!

Personally I'm all for a invasion of cheap Chinese EV's. This will finish this stupid EV boondoggle quickly. No soccer mom will touch a EV when the evening news is littered with burning Chinese EV's.
If a cheap EV burns to the ground, is it bad for the environment? Just asking for a friend.

[Car-Addicted]

Who would have predicted that a bunch of rental EV's were ridden hard and put a way wet?

Hertz's Used Teslas Are Glitchy, Damaged Nightmares
05/16/2024
Take Bijay Pandey of Irving, Texas. He went and purchased a 2022 Model 3 Long Range for just $25,000 for his wife earlier this year. Problems with it started not long after he purchased it.
After getting a temporary title, he found the car wasn’t reading voltage correctly. Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him.
The hole in the battery pack turned out to be damage that was classified as “exterior damage,” resulting in a repair bill of over $13,000. Of course, that amount wasn’t covered by warranty. Surprisingly, Hertz told Pandey they would let him swap the car for another.
The battery abuse these have received makes a purchase from Hertz a dealbreaker. My prior experience with purchase of a used rental does factor. Most rental cars don’t see much abuse, however many of these were Uber rentals, lots of fast charging, using all the range there is, the abuse is such it falls on the poor slob that buys one. I would buy a used Tesla from Tesla, that’s about it.
https://jalopnik.com/even-ford-is-wa...now-1851466376

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Who would have predicted that a bunch of rental EV's were ridden hard and put a way wet?

Hertz's Used Teslas Are Glitchy, Damaged Nightmares
05/16/2024
Take Bijay Pandey of Irving, Texas. He went and purchased a 2022 Model 3 Long Range for just $25,000 for his wife earlier this year. Problems with it started not long after he purchased it.
After getting a temporary title, he found the car wasn’t reading voltage correctly. Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him.
The hole in the battery pack turned out to be damage that was classified as “exterior damage,” resulting in a repair bill of over $13,000. Of course, that amount wasn’t covered by warranty. Surprisingly, Hertz told Pandey they would let him swap the car for another.
The battery abuse these have received makes a purchase from Hertz a dealbreaker. My prior experience with purchase of a used rental does factor. Most rental cars don’t see much abuse, however many of these were Uber rentals, lots of fast charging, using all the range there is, the abuse is such it falls on the poor slob that buys one. I would buy a used Tesla from Tesla, that’s about it.
https://jalopnik.com/even-ford-is-wa...now-1851466376

I am gobsmacked that buying a used car from a rental agency is a bad idea. Just floored.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Who would have predicted that a bunch of rental EV's were ridden hard and put a way wet?

Hertz's Used Teslas Are Glitchy, Damaged Nightmares
05/16/2024
Take Bijay Pandey of Irving, Texas. He went and purchased a 2022 Model 3 Long Range for just $25,000 for his wife earlier this year. Problems with it started not long after he purchased it.
After getting a temporary title, he found the car wasn’t reading voltage correctly. Soon, a body shop found a quarter-size hole in the undercarriage he hadn’t seen before, which led to revelations of deeper issues inside. “The high-voltage battery pack is damaged and could cause extreme safety concerns,” a Tesla technician texted him.
The hole in the battery pack turned out to be damage that was classified as “exterior damage,” resulting in a repair bill of over $13,000. Of course, that amount wasn’t covered by warranty. Surprisingly, Hertz told Pandey they would let him swap the car for another.
The battery abuse these have received makes a purchase from Hertz a dealbreaker. My prior experience with purchase of a used rental does factor. Most rental cars don’t see much abuse, however many of these were Uber rentals, lots of fast charging, using all the range there is, the abuse is such it falls on the poor slob that buys one. I would buy a used Tesla from Tesla, that’s about it.
https://jalopnik.com/even-ford-is-wa...now-1851466376

Should have done a PPI.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by N1rve

Should have done a PPI.

Should have gone to the Toyota dealer and purchased a Prius.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Should have gone to the Toyota dealer and purchased a Prius.

Hey now. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Go back and find it. I figured you had it memorized.

LOL that believing packing a 1,000-pound fuel vapor explosive device on the bottom of a car shouldn't result in fire deaths. They are literally self-immolating sitting still and you find it hard to believe a serious accident wouldn't have foreseeable consequences, you're funny. Insurance companies total the car if ANY damage to the exterior battery shell is discovered, why? because insurance companies are about the RISK!

Need data.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Lazy.

Even if you were motivated I don't think you could find data supporting your claim that death by EV fire is higher than death by ICE fire. ICE fires are already occurring at ten times the rate of EV fires. Unlikely deaths in those events would be higher for EVs.

[Car-Addicted]

There are many articles showing that it is more expensive to insure EV's than it is similar ICE vehicles. No this is not due to all the EV fires or all the dead EV drivers, it due to the average loss's as determined by insurance actuarial tables. Insurance companies don't give a dam about YouTube fire videos. It's all about the loss pay outs and today's EV is more likely to be a total write off than a repairable wreck.

Are High Insurance Premiums Holding EVs Back?
May 8, 2024
But some consumers may be overestimating their potential savings. According to one analysis, while insurance for EVs varies a lot by make, EVs still cost around 20% more to insure in 2024 than internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles do.
While EV price tags are dropping, electric vehicles still have higher sales prices in general than ICE vehicles, which makes them more expensive to replace after accidents and more costly to insure. Between September 2022 and September 2023, the average price paid for EVs fell from $65,000 to $50,683, but that was still higher than the average price for all new vehicles ($47,899).

Repairs
EVs are more expensive to repair than ICE vehicles, for a handful of reasons. For starters, the replacement parts market hasn't kept pace with EV growth. There are also fewer repair shops and technicians qualified to work on EVs than on gas-powered cars. So parts cost around 25% more, and labor is more expensive, too. In 2023, EV repairs cost $1,322 more than ICE repairs on average.
On top of that, EVs have a major battery problem. While the battery in an EV accounts for the majority of the vehicle's value, it's more vulnerable to damage than the battery in an ICE vehicle and more expensive and dangerous to repair. The job can require a specialist.
EV battery issues are especially complex when it comes to Teslas, because some models have the battery parts glued together and sealed into the car, rendering them difficult to inspect and sometimes impossible to replace.
In 2023, the cost to replace an EV battery ran anywhere from $4,000 to $20,000, not including a labor bill that could be as high as $2,000. So even for an EV with minimal battery damage, a write-off could be more cost-effective.
https://www.insurancethoughtleadersh...lding-evs-back

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Pay attention, you might learn something.

Just seeing a guy with IBS.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

There are many articles showing that it is more expensive to insure EV's than it is similar ICE vehicles. No this is not due to all the EV fires or all the dead EV drivers, it due to the average loss's as determined by insurance actuarial tables. Insurance companies don't give a dam about YouTube fire videos. It's all about the loss pay outs and today's EV is more likely to be a total write off than a repairable wreck.

Are High Insurance Premiums Holding EVs Back?
May 8, 2024
But some consumers may be overestimating their potential savings. According to one analysis, while insurance for EVs varies a lot by make, EVs still cost around 20% more to insure in 2024 than internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles do.
While EV price tags are dropping, electric vehicles still have higher sales prices in general than ICE vehicles, which makes them more expensive to replace after accidents and more costly to insure. Between September 2022 and September 2023, the average price paid for EVs fell from $65,000 to $50,683, but that was still higher than the average price for all new vehicles ($47,899).

Repairs
EVs are more expensive to repair than ICE vehicles, for a handful of reasons. For starters, the replacement parts market hasn't kept pace with EV growth. There are also fewer repair shops and technicians qualified to work on EVs than on gas-powered cars. So parts cost around 25% more, and labor is more expensive, too. In 2023, EV repairs cost $1,322 more than ICE repairs on average.
On top of that, EVs have a major battery problem. While the battery in an EV accounts for the majority of the vehicle's value, it's more vulnerable to damage than the battery in an ICE vehicle and more expensive and dangerous to repair. The job can require a specialist.
EV battery issues are especially complex when it comes to Teslas, because some models have the battery parts glued together and sealed into the car, rendering them difficult to inspect and sometimes impossible to replace.
In 2023, the cost to replace an EV battery ran anywhere from $4,000 to $20,000, not including a labor bill that could be as high as $2,000. So even for an EV with minimal battery damage, a write-off could be more cost-effective.
https://www.insurancethoughtleadersh...lding-evs-back

In my area, tons and tons and tons and tons of cars are running around with body damage, often unrepaired. I just realized recently that I have NEVER seen a Tesla with body damage on the road ever. It seems they're just written off.