[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

This is a legitimate concern, especially for someone like me who spends a lot of time in stop and go traffic. However this would be my second car, and Hyundai/KIA offers a huge warranty. I probably wouldn't let this fear stop me in my particular case.

Beware though, Hyundai/Kia service is one of the worst in the industry, i've heard many horror stories where many dealers have denied warranty claims despite the 5/60 factory and 10/100 powertrain warranties.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I'm finding it tough to find anything better FOR ME at ~$25k new than the Forte GT. It appears to be the sportiest sedan with ACC at that price point. I want to research the Forte GT's ACC system to make sure it's full featured (offering stop and go). Also I need to get in one and make sure it's comfortable.
Just as I was at the above I learned about that comma system mentioned earlier. I want to dig into that deeper to see how much/little bit will influence my shopping.

I wonder how much of a mechanical clone the Veloster is? They just announced a DCT for it. Friend had one a few years back and I was quite impressed how adults were able to sit in the back of it (high roofline). More space than I thought there'd be.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I wonder how much of a mechanical clone the Veloster is? They just announced a DCT for it. Friend had one a few years back and I was quite impressed how adults were able to sit in the back of it (high roofline). More space than I thought there'd be.

As much as I hate to admit it, the new Veloster N is quite cool, even if it is a weird 3 door hatch. Great competitor to the CTR but much cheaper.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I wonder how much of a mechanical clone the Veloster is? They just announced a DCT for it. Friend had one a few years back and I was quite impressed how adults were able to sit in the back of it (high roofline). More space than I thought there'd be.

Edit: Nevermind, we get the Elantra GT/N, same exact thing as the Forte 5.

[stein_325i]

The Veloster isn't the best daily. 3-doors is a bit weird, the interior is all plastic, visibility is slim, and suspension is harsh. The Veloster N is a riot to drive though!

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

This is a legitimate concern, especially for someone like me who spends a lot of time in stop and go traffic. However this would be my second car, and Hyundai/KIA offers a huge warranty. I probably wouldn't let this fear stop me in my particular case.

I'd just go into this eyes wide open. My friend had reported initial weirdness with the car around how it shifted. Then it took this catastrophic failure to get action on the issue. She sent me some videos on the failure of her trans. She was cruising at highway speeds when the engine revs just shot up and the car wasn't accelerating but decelerating. Ended up having to have the car towed to the dealership.

I also did some research on the Kia Soul forums and found out she's not the only one with issues with this trans.

My issues with my DCT revolved around low speed stop and go driveability which has mostly gone away with some tweaks done by the dealership and adaptation resets. But never have I experienced issues at higher speeds. My friend's experience would scare me big time.

[adc100]

Check out the Subaru Crosstrek or Forester. Their system is one of the best. I don't have it on either of mine. And you have to really work on getting either of them stuck.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by adc100

Check out the Subaru Crosstrek or Forester. Their system is one of the best. I don't have it on either of mine. And you have to really work on getting either of them stuck.

I like the aesthetics of the Crosstrek but neither of those options come close to the sportiness of the Forte GT.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I like the aesthetics of the Crosstrek but neither of those options come close to the sportiness of the Forte GT.

That and the Crosstrek has a CVT.

[RM7]

Looking at the Elantra GT N (same as Forte 5), it needs the tech package to have the ACC, but says that it has "stop and go", so I'm assuming it does.

I'm open to used as well, something like a BMW touring, volvo V (not XC), audi sportback (regular a5 cargo too restrictive) or another 4-GC. Even in the last couple years, it seems that the ACC option is never added. I just have to think that not enough drivers have experienced it. It also seems to be added standard to more and more packages with new vehicles, rather than being required to add as a "stand alone". We get crazy traffic on highways in the summer and man, it's just so outstanding to be able to let the vehicle cruise on it's own and follow the vehicle ahead, rather than constantly work the brake and accelerator. Just as a clutch gets annoying pretty fast, so does accelerating, stopping, repeat, over-do it, then have to stop abrupt, etc. I'd like the smooth engine and ride of something like a BMW, so that kind of makes me skeptical of the hyundai and GTI, but I think the GTI is just too small (3" shorter than Elantra N-line). Skepticism aside, the only way to get something halfway sporty with some carrying capacity might be that hyundai, new.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

That and the Crosstrek has a CVT.

Its available in manual.
But the CVT in subaru uses a chain not a belt. CVT is good bc it keeps the engine in its maximum power band. Latest generation CVT vehicle will beat a manual every time. Subaru has the paddles which is nice.

I drove manual trannies for 50 years. I'm tired of shifting.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I like the aesthetics of the Crosstrek but neither of those options come close to the sportiness of the Forte GT.

So I was trying to give the 228i GC a fair shake, it seemed to be buildable with the options that I want, but all the time I had assumed it was a hatchback like the 430 GC. WTF? I don't consider it a GC without that important feature. Really disappointing BMW.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

So I was trying to give the 228i GC a fair shake, it seemed to be buildable with the options that I want, but all the time I had assumed it was a hatchback like the 430 GC. WTF? I don't consider it a GC without that important feature. Really disappointing BMW.

You have identified one of my problems with that car. By its name, one expects it to be a hatchback version of a regular 2 series. It is none of those things. It is not a hatchback and it is front wheel drive. More like a 1 series. But buyers who are not as sophisticated as you are think they are getting a 4 door hatch version of a 2 series.

At a minimum, confusing; certainly misleading if not deliberately so. I would expect better of BMW.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

I like the aesthetics of the Crosstrek but neither of those options come close to the sportiness of the Forte GT.

Going to test drive the Hyundai DCT and ACC tomorrow. Unfortunately not a GT N-line, but hopefully it gives me an idea. They do have a GT, but that's all it is, which won't even have the multi-link rear suspension I think. I'll drive that too, but it won't tell me much. Further research shows that Hyundai and Kia's ACC is basically a carbon copy of BMW, will resume from a stop if within 3 seconds, if not hit the resume button, etc. I like that. VW will stop, but won't resume unless you hit the accelerator. I don't like that nearly as much, but it's not a total deal-breaker. Deal-breakers are the ones that won't stop and kick off at a slow speed (because then you accelerate into the car ahead). Sized out the GT last week, size is ok.

Frustrating finding something that has good cargo capacity and isn't a giant SUV or cross-over with 10 miles of ground clearance. Truly a shame that wagons have been eliminated from the market. I might go for a low-miles A4 allroad with all the bells and whistles I'm looking for. An S5 sportback or 4-GC may also do, but the 4-series can't get remote start...which is a lot closer to a deal-breaker. Keeping my eyes on the dealer inventories and used stuff, but man ACC is such a rare feature and then wagons and decent hatchbacks....same thing.

When you use ACC in a blizzard or heavy rainstorm with limited visibility you really start to love how brilliant it is.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Going to test drive the Hyundai DCT and ACC tomorrow...

So dealer was able to find a Kona with the 1.6 turbo and DCT drivetrain. That was definitely a nice drivetrain, smooth, etc. Compared back to back with a Elantra GT base (all they have in the Elantra). The difference between the 1.6T DCT and 2.0 NA with auto was huge. Lots more vibration from the 2.0, rough feeling, shifts not anywhere near as smooth, etc. I wouldn't say the 1.6T was quite as smooth as my BMW...but it's close. Transmission smoother though. The 2.0 on the other hand can't be compared. DCT doesn't lurch forward as much as auto. The ACC on the Kona didn't seem to be the same as what would come on the GT N-line. It kicks off at around 5mph and it was my understanding that the N-line actually has a stop-n-go function where if the car ahead stops for 3 seconds or less, it will resume. The one thing that wasn't as bad as other cars was that when it did pop off, it didn't lurch forward nearly as bad as others (due to the DCT not rolling as fast at idle compared to an auto trans). The last thing you want when approaching a vehicle coming to a stop is to accelerate into them. Otherwise the ACC was exactly what I expected, it has to "lock onto" a moving car ahead, shows a car picture when it does, etc. HUD in the Kona was crappy, not even on the window, but in front of it. All in all, I think putting that drivetrain into the Elantra would be a winner. All of the N-line improvements turn it into a liveable car in terms of tech and niceties and that drivetrain would be a great fit.

The bad news though is that my state can't "order" any Hyundais. Not because of COVID or any shut downs, but in general Hyundai considers this state to be another country and they don't allow for any ordering of cars with specific configurations. This really sucks. I gave my number to the salesperson and said to call me if they find one somehow...but he was pretty bummed about it too and it doesn't look very hopeful.

So that kind of puts me back to square one. I think the GTI/R is just a hair too small. I'll definitely be sizing it out though soon. This possibly brings me to something like a Q3/5 X2 or something. I really didn't want to go down the SUV road, but these appear to be possible to get with for a decent price. If a used stinger comes along again (there was one recently...maybe should have jumped on it) or A5 sportback with the right features, those would be contenders. Even an A4 allroad and then lower it, but all of these are fairly long-shots...The GTI/R would work if big enough, but it just seems a little too short and the Sportwagen 1.8 can't get ACC, in fact it's stripped.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

So dealer was able to find a Kona with the 1.6 turbo and DCT drivetrain. That was definitely a nice drivetrain, smooth, etc. Compared back to back with a Elantra GT base (all they have in the Elantra). The difference between the 1.6T DCT and 2.0 NA with auto was huge. Lots more vibration from the 2.0, rough feeling, shifts not anywhere near as smooth, etc. I wouldn't say the 1.6T was quite as smooth as my BMW...but it's close. Transmission smoother though. The 2.0 on the other hand can't be compared. DCT doesn't lurch forward as much as auto. The ACC on the Kona didn't seem to be the same as what would come on the GT N-line. It kicks off at around 5mph and it was my understanding that the N-line actually has a stop-n-go function where if the car ahead stops for 3 seconds or less, it will resume. The one thing that wasn't as bad as other cars was that when it did pop off, it didn't lurch forward nearly as bad as others (due to the DCT not rolling as fast at idle compared to an auto trans). The last thing you want when approaching a vehicle coming to a stop is to accelerate into them. Otherwise the ACC was exactly what I expected, it has to "lock onto" a moving car ahead, shows a car picture when it does, etc. HUD in the Kona was crappy, not even on the window, but in front of it. All in all, I think putting that drivetrain into the Elantra would be a winner. All of the N-line improvements turn it into a liveable car in terms of tech and niceties and that drivetrain would be a great fit.

The bad news though is that my state can't "order" any Hyundais. Not because of COVID or any shut downs, but in general Hyundai considers this state to be another country and they don't allow for any ordering of cars with specific configurations. This really sucks. I gave my number to the salesperson and said to call me if they find one somehow...but he was pretty bummed about it too and it doesn't look very hopeful.

So that kind of puts me back to square one. I think the GTI/R is just a hair too small. I'll definitely be sizing it out though soon. This possibly brings me to something like a Q3/5 X2 or something. I really didn't want to go down the SUV road, but these appear to be possible to get with for a decent price. If a used stinger comes along again (there was one recently...maybe should have jumped on it) or A5 sportback with the right features, those would be contenders. Even an A4 allroad and then lower it, but all of these are fairly long-shots...The GTI/R would work if big enough, but it just seems a little too short and the Sportwagen 1.8 can't get ACC, in fact it's stripped.

Just curious, are you looking at new Audi's and BMW's or used? I'm assuming used since your cross-shopping with much cheaper vehicles.

An A4 Allroad w/ Painted Cladding would be a very nice vehicle. Practical, Comfortable, Roomy, Nice Materials and Great Technology, although I imagine the Sportback is much easier to find. Q3 is also nice, but would have to be new, the first gen is not a good vehicle, and the X1 isn't as nice and completely lacks features like Blind-Spot Monitoring at any price, despite every new econobox having it standard.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Just curious, are you looking at new Audi's and BMW's or used? I'm assuming used since your cross-shopping with much cheaper vehicles.

An A4 Allroad w/ Painted Cladding would be a very nice vehicle. Practical, Comfortable, Roomy, Nice Materials and Great Technology, although I imagine the Sportback is much easier to find. Q3 is also nice, but would have to be new, the first gen is not a good vehicle, and the X1 isn't as nice and completely lacks features like Blind-Spot Monitoring at any price, despite every new econobox having it standard.

Yep, but I don't really want to go out and buy another 50K car. I could afford it...but I wouldn't be driving it enough to justify the depreciation.

So I'm definitely considering a used A4 Allroad, A5 SB, etc. Those are particularly good because they can be had with ACC and remote start...but the kicker is two-fold, ACC is an incredibly rare feature/option and there aren't any used A4 allroads, the dealer doesn't even stock any! There are a few used A5 sportbacks around, but since the model is so new, they are still well north of 40K, no ACC.

But if what I want to transport fits, a GTI or R may still be the best. I have a spreadsheet where I've stacked everything up and weighed the features, those come out pretty high on the scoreboard, assuming used from 2016 and on. I just wish you could have at least GTI performance in a sportwagen size. It's like they are intentionally trying to make that model suck, you can only get the 1.8 awd in the stripped model with no features, and it's still not much power, or you can go to the lifted alltrack thing, but then it's back to being a crossover.

For something like a Q3/5 or X2, yeah, I'd be within the last couple years, some do have the features, but not exactly what I'm looking for, I'd be a hell of a lot nicer to have at least an A4 allroad with it's real-wagon size.

It's frustrating, but if I spend more time and don't find something with the features I want, I may just fly down to Seattle, but it on the spot, drive back through Canada, take some vacation on the way. That may actually work well for me.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yep, but I don't really want to go out and buy another 50K car. I could afford it...but I wouldn't be driving it enough to justify the depreciation.

So I'm definitely considering a used A4 Allroad, A5 SB, etc. Those are particularly good because they can be had with ACC and remote start...but the kicker is two-fold, ACC is an incredibly rare feature/option and there aren't any used A4 allroads, the dealer doesn't even stock any! There are a few used A5 sportbacks around, but since the model is so new, they are still well north of 40K, no ACC.

For something like a Q3/5 or X2, yeah, I'd be within the last couple years, some do have the features, but not exactly what I'm looking for, I'd be a hell of a lot nicer to have at least an A4 allroad with it's real-wagon size.

Yes, Audi annoyingly packages ACC usually on the Prestige trim but sells more Premium Plus trims and more of those tend to end up on the used market. Ever think about a Stinger or G70, used or new? Or even a Tesla? The $35k Model 3 technically exists if you contact a Tesla store.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Yes, Audi annoyingly packages ACC usually on the Prestige trim but sells more Premium Plus trims and more of those tend to end up on the used market. Ever think about a Stinger or G70, used or new? Or even a Tesla? The $35k Model 3 technically exists if you contact a Tesla store.

Tesla is right out because I want to use the car for long road trips into Canada, not a lot between here and there.

Stinger is possible, again, don't want to get a new one, it needs to be built in at least GT1 spec to get the ACC, so again, it's a 50K car and I wouldn't drive it enough splitting between two to really justify the depreciation. There was a used one recently and I just wasn't quite ready to be shopping yet. If one pops up again, it's a definite contender, but also needs to be significantly cheaper than the original MSRP. On the other hand, maybe if things get bad enough the dealer will want to sell the ones they have (3) for cheaper. Things would have to get pretty bad...

Needs to be at least a hatchback, like the Stinger/A5 SB/4 GC.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yep, but I don't really want to go out and buy another 50K car. I could afford it...but I wouldn't be driving it enough to justify the depreciation.

So I'm definitely considering a used A4 Allroad, A5 SB, etc. Those are particularly good because they can be had with ACC and remote start...but the kicker is two-fold, ACC is an incredibly rare feature/option and there aren't any used A4 allroads, the dealer doesn't even stock any! There are a few used A5 sportbacks around, but since the model is so new, they are still well north of 40K, no ACC.

But if what I want to transport fits, a GTI or R may still be the best. I have a spreadsheet where I've stacked everything up and weighed the features, those come out pretty high on the scoreboard, assuming used from 2016 and on. I just wish you could have at least GTI performance in a sportwagen size. It's like they are intentionally trying to make that model suck, you can only get the 1.8 awd in the stripped model with no features, and it's still not much power, or you can go to the lifted alltrack thing, but then it's back to being a crossover.

For something like a Q3/5 or X2, yeah, I'd be within the last couple years, some do have the features, but not exactly what I'm looking for, I'd be a hell of a lot nicer to have at least an A4 allroad with it's real-wagon size.

It's frustrating, but if I spend more time and don't find something with the features I want, I may just fly down to Seattle, but it on the spot, drive back through Canada, take some vacation on the way. That may actually work well for me.

You can get 380hp out of the 1.8t with an IS38 turbo and tuning. The 4Motion wagon with some basic tuning is pretty impressive. I'm fine with the GTI, but understand wanting a little more space, and the wagon is pretty nice.

There are tuners that use the JB4 platform that's certainly more flexible than APR, but here's an idea of various tunes for the 1.8t.

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_u..._gen3_mqb.html

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

You can get 380hp out of the 1.8t with an IS38 turbo and tuning. The 4Motion wagon with some basic tuning is pretty impressive. I'm fine with the GTI, but understand wanting a little more space, and the wagon is pretty nice.

The 4 motion is the only way to get the 1.8 and ACC...but again, basically a cross-over lifted ride height...not stoked on that. If the VW 1.8 was available in a sportwagen varient with ACC...then that'd at least be a contender. Not looking to do a bunch of modding either, rather keep it reliable vs. something that may cause an issue on a trip.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The 4 motion is the only way to get the 1.8 and ACC...but again, basically a cross-over lifted ride height...not stoked on that. If the VW 1.8 was available in a sportwagen varient with ACC...then that'd at least be a contender. Not looking to do a bunch of modding either, rather keep it reliable vs. something that may cause an issue on a trip.

Understand. Haven't they already stopped building the wagons? The APR Plus tune includes a powertrain warranty. There really aren't many reliability concerns with tuned EA888's though, aside from the absurdly weak factory clutch if you go the manual route. There are a few APR certified VW dealers too, sort of like Dinan is to BMW. I'm not using APR, just aware that they're a good outlet for the risk averse.