[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Evening Gibbo,are you taking up the £5er challenge then?
I must admit, I'm glad it's you, I won't have so far to travel to get my winnings
You could donate it to charidee though, I'm a generous kinda guy.

(It would cost me a fiver to get a fiver )

Oh yes please, do you need me to have a spirit level pictured across the road as well?

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

I hope it comes with FSC accreditation Gibbo, if not you'll have the tree huggers camping on your lawn, and tunneling under your house!

Not sure about that but I read that it's anti splinter if the car has an accident.

[sterogers]

Nice informative review/post.

I do think the M Sport models are nicer looking (aggressive) but when I got the E92 last December (ordered October) couldn't get M Sport. Now having an E91 after the E92 - I've had to compromise big time, less power, slightly softer suspension, smaller rims etc and for me this change was about getting space for the familly and the wife with the big stick and budget !

There is a lot I miss about the E92 and it's only been a week! But for me M Sport setup does seem harder on 18's over the 335d SE with sports suspension on 18's. But it's all personal as we know :-). The suspension is just good/proper on BMW's that my previous german cars.

Not had much chance to put the E91 through it paces, but it's a completely different beast (can I use that to describe my E91 SE? hmm) than the awesome E92 335d.

Steve

[Michael Cassel]

I driven both (E90 versions). Its the M-Sport for me all the time. Better spec, better drive.

[Hotcoupe]

Gibbo Quote:
Oh yes please, do you need me to have a spirit level pictured across the road as well?

Spirit level Gibbo!! Get with the times young man,only a laser leveller will do,or a tube of clear hose filled with water and a wooden peg for each end

Gibbo Quote:
Not sure about that but I read that it's anti splinter if the car has an accident.

^^^^^^ Not good enuff, expect a possee to arrive shortly.




Bit of clarity required chaps, as there are lots of differing models talked about here in respect of suspension.

I am comparing stock E92 335D's in terms of suspension,the M Sport 335D DOES sit lower then the 335D SE,and my fiver is up for grabs for anyone to disprove the above statement, capiche?

[RockIt]

Had it been available I would have bought an M Sport, but it wasn't so I couldn't. Instead I specced sports suspension and Sports seats.

M Sport is great and the report by MJH is excellent, but frankly the whole M Sport is better than SE theme is getting boring, rather like the 335i/d circular debate.

[dxb335d]

if everyone who has a M-sport seriously looks down and this SE 335d is not as good, i am disappointed.

[SDRX]

Originally Posted by RockIt

rather like the 335i/d circular debate.

I agree in the end it distills down to personal taste, both cars for different reasons excel to new limits. The SE vs MSport debate, which i have followed closely as a newcomer, is best resolved by simply realising that most new buyers would go for a MSport rather than SE - sales stats prove this. That is reflective of the dyanmic and increasingly younger customer base BMW is building, hence the the intense marketing of the 1 series since its launch.

[Hotcoupe]

dxb335d if everyone who has a M-sport seriously looks down and this SE 335d is not as good, i am disappointed.

Carl,I don't think anyone is suggesting that the SE is a lesser model then the M Sport,that is simply not the case.
People have differing needs and differing tastes.

You have a lovely car, period, as do others with SE models,don't get hung up on it.

[E92Fan]

OK, just to clarify.

The entire 3 series range use the same basic suspension setup/geometry setup, with the MSport models running on lower and stiffer springs. For instance, every single 3 series car (except the M3) uses exactly the same antiroll bars - 26.5mm at the front, and 13mm at the back. This is regardless of whether it's a saloon or coupe.

Each model individually has THREE possible damper selections, depending on the equipment specification of your car. The more options, the heavier, so the more robust the damping.

In addition, as time has gone on, BMW have continuously improved the damper rates and the sophistication of the suspension. Later iteration cars almost certainly ride better than early model cars, and that might explain the difference between the ride of the E90 and the E92. Also, tyre pressures on the Bridgestone runflats are absolutely critical and affect the way the car rides and handles quite dramatically.

The 335d and 335i SE coupes all use the SAME MSport suspension as the Sport model variations. There is no difference whatsoever, even down to the bushing.

It is most likely that the difference Helen is feeling between the previous E90 and the E92 is down to suspension development, and also the fact that the 335d engine is substantially heavier and therefore increases the perception of understeer.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, wants to improve the roadholding and cornering of the car without losing the compliancy and bump absorption of the standard suspension, then I suggest upgrading the antiroll bars, as I have done today... review post will be up shortly. As a teaser, I will say that it has, along with the LSD, totally transformed my car and has lost its tendancy to understeer, creating the most perfectly balanced and infinitely controllable handling...

[beemerbird]

Thank you Tony for the explanation.

I agree that tyre pressures are critical. I check mine regularly using the same pump as used on the E90. I could always tell with the E90 when the pressures were out slightly. Both the E90 & E92 shod with Bridgestones.

My E90 had a build date of October 2005, although I bought it 'new' in July 2006. Considering the E92 has a build date of August 2007, then it is more than feasible that BMW could have made improvements to the suspension between these dates.

Now that you have mentioned understeer - yes that is it. The E92 is just that bit vague in comparison to the E90 I had, it's still very good and provides feedback - just not as sharp. I also personally preferred the M sport steering wheel.

So then Tony, by the time you've finished altering your car, what will be left as OE - instrument cluster and carpets perhaps? Look forward to the write up

[creepy coupe]

Centre of gravity is lower in the coupe regardless of model over the saloon, so that might make things feel different.

[Evil Diesel]

Tyre pressures ........ Hmmmmm.

This could open up a post expolsion.

Do you check them when cold or hot? What happens if you overfill? Any videos available? Do you have to waer a tank top when checking?

[dxb335d]

Evil you plumb


Carlos

[Evil Diesel]

[Z4 Beemer]

Originally Posted by RockIt

Had it been available I would have bought an M Sport, but it wasn't so I couldn't. Instead I specced sports suspension and Sports seats.

M Sport is great and the report by MJH is excellent, but frankly the whole M Sport is better than SE theme is getting boring, rather like the 335i/d circular debate.

AGREED! I was in the same situation as you Gav- the M Sport wasn't available this time last year, but I went for the bigger wheels and sports seats.

Originally Posted by dxb335d

if everyone who has a M-sport seriously looks down and this SE 335d is not as good, i am disappointed.

Don't be disappointed Carlos. The last person to look down their nose at me ended up with it broken

[Cafe.Racer]

Jeez, would've had thought that a thread on this subject would jump off-topic and run to four pages in such a short space of time.

Out of interest, which wheels did the e91 SE and M-Sports have on?

The review makes me much happier that I got an e91 SE with sports seats, suspension and steering wheel (later changed for an M-Sport wheel and shortshift) and 17". Still want an M-Sport though.

Although I can tell you that mine also "suffers" from that random tramlining you mention - it doesn't consistently do it, but every now it's alarming.

My advice to anyone would be to price up the options on your SE then look at the price of an M-Sport. I think if I'd have done that (and someone hadn't made a mistake :angry: ) I would've been driving and M-Sport.

I had Xenon's on my last car (aftermarket ones, shocking I know) and they are brilliant, the standard headlights in the bimmer are very good for "flickering candles" but now it's dropped dark again I long for Xenon's again.

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by mjh93sa

The SE suspension, for me at least, is something of a quandary. It is not soft enough to qualify as a luxury cruiser in the manner of the sublime ride of an E60 and neither is it able to justify itself as a sporting vehicle as it is too soft and rolls too much. The MSport by comparison does not feel as compromised. With a focus on providing a car that feels planted and corners with minimal body roll (at the expected expense of some ride quality) it strikes what I believe to be a better and more acceptable balance.

I would argue that the MSport suspension is the one in a quandry - I already have little body roll and a fairly planted feel with the SE but still it has a tendency to be a little too firm for the rutted and broken road surfaces I get to drive on every day.

At the dyno day I heard two people complaining about the rear of their cars skipping and hopping on rough surfaces and I wonder why I would want to make this happen even more frequently by specifying the firmer MSport setup?

On UK roads I dont think either setup can be used safely to anywhere near its full potential so why not have a more comfortable ride instead?

The other MSport stuff is just a very, very minor bodykit - if you like it more and dont mind the cost buy it.

I'll give you the steering wheel though, the MSport one is way nicer and I might, when I get round to it, swap mine for an M wheel.

[dxb335d]

TBH like i said when the DXB was built M-sport wasnt available, But the DXB wouldnt be as awesome as she is if she was an M-sprt.

She couldnt have turned out Monaco Blue and couldnt have had the 230's.

Im glad she is what she is!

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by DaveC

At the dyno day I heard two people complaining about the rear of their cars skipping and hopping on rough surfaces and I wonder why I would want to make this happen even more frequently by specifying the firmer MSport setup?

That is very true - the back end of most BMWs have a tendancy to be a bit Tigger-ish - they bounce all over the place. Quite why BMW have kept this trait through previous iterations of the 3er I don't know. The primary ride is generally quite good, but the secondary ride is pretty awful, and gets worse with the MSport suspension.

One of the ways to create greater compliancy is to change the runflats for normal tyres - those who drove or were a passenger in my car over Dyno day I'm sure will testify to the fact that the ride is very noticeably smoother and quieter in my car.

I like the safety aspects of runflats, but can't find any other good reason to have them on a car. The Bridgestone runflats are much much heavier (just over 3.5kgs more per tyre), and these in particular harden up when temperatures drop which means that when it gets cold, wet and slippery (the exact conditions when you need maximum grip) the tyre has little compliancy and skips over bumps and ruts as opposed to moulding to and digging into the asphalt.

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

Tyre pressures ........ Hmmmmm.

This could open up a post expolsion.

Do you check them when cold or hot? What happens if you overfill? Any videos available? Do you have to waer a tank top when checking?

Were you awake when you typed the above - check the spelling

I bet some sad tosser has a video of checking tyre pressures (Not you Carlos)

Always check when cold, and overfill should be avoided at all times otherwise you get that rock hard, fit to burst sensation. The apparel is optional.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Were you awake when you typed the above - check the spelling

I bet some sad tosser has a video of checking tyre pressures (Not you Carlos)

Always check when cold, and overfill should be avoided at all times otherwise you get that rock hard, fit to burst sensation. The apparel is optional.

the dipstick wasnt my idea, and it was only for a larf.