[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

So what you are basically saying is no girls are allowed on this board and that is according to you and your rules.

Who died and made you king.

P.S.

I think if you check, BMW employ a certain lady to drive their new M3 Taxi around the ring and I don't bet, I know she would comfortably whip your arse in a car but oh no that impossible because she's a girl.

T-Bone your Audi remarks are getting old and wearing thin.

Sabine is not really a girl but rather a demi-god.

I would love to see the demographics for people who buy the TT / TTS, it they were not 50+ year old males and women from 30-50, I would be surprised.

On the TTS vs. Z4M, I will take the Z4M on the track everyday. Yes, I have driven on the track with the Z4M, while the TTS appears to be nice from a power / weight perspective, you allude to most of the power going to the front wheels?? BARF!!! The Z4M is light, nimble and MOST importantly neutral (to a bit oversteer bias).

I will stop bashing Audi when they bring out a car that is fun to drive.

[TinkySD]

I'm not sure if anyone has answered this correctly but the TT-S motor is in fact a signficant upgrade over the normal 2.0T.

It uses a k04 turbo which can pass signficantly more air than the k03 in the standard 2.0T. It should put out similar numbers to the S3 which also uses a k04.

Tuner refalshes of a TT-S should result in similar gains as the normal 2.0Ts see... ~25-30whp and ~50 wtq

[TheAcAvenger]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Sabine is not really a girl but rather a demi-god.

I will stop bashing Audi when they bring out a car that is fun to drive.

I'd say that last turbocharged S4 at the end of the 90s was pretty fun to drive. That whole generation of Audis was a good one. I really think some people's driving styles just arent suited to enjoy awd. I'm one of them which is why I don't compare audi and bmw as I think they have their own advantages and disadvantages. You're not going to convince a track-obsessed rwd feind that awd is good for much of anything except taking the fun out of driving and getting places in bad weather. So for that T Bone, I don't blame your perspective.

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Sabine is not really a girl but rather a demi-god.

I would love to see the demographics for people who buy the TT / TTS, it they were not 50+ year old males and women from 30-50, I would be surprised.

On the TTS vs. Z4M, I will take the Z4M on the track everyday. Yes, I have driven on the track with the Z4M, while the TTS appears to be nice from a power / weight perspective, you allude to most of the power going to the front wheels?? BARF!!! The Z4M is light, nimble and MOST importantly neutral (to a bit oversteer bias).

I will stop bashing Audi when they bring out a car that is fun to drive.

I don't think, I know that the split of buyers for the new TT is nothing like the old car, it is mostly upwardly mobile men in their mid thirties.

I too would take the Z4M on the track purely from a entertainment point of view, whether it would be much quicker is yet to be seen. You seem to think that rwd automatically makes things quicker ...... silly opinion.

I agree that the Z4M is light and nimble but you clearly haven't driven one on a less than perfect road surface because if you had you would know that along with the comments of light and nimble would go nervous and edgy. Not things which fill with confidence.

Lastly you clearly haven't driven any Audis since the 90series because if you had you would know that cars like the TT Mk2, RS4, S5 and R8 are all fun to drive.

But like I say and keep saying, unless it has a BMW badge you aren't interested.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

I don't think, I know that the split of buyers for the new TT is nothing like the old car, it is mostly upwardly mobile men in their mid thirties.

I too would take the Z4M on the track purely from a entertainment point of view, whether it would be much quicker is yet to be seen. You seem to think that rwd automatically makes things quicker ...... silly opinion.

I agree that the Z4M is light and nimble but you clearly haven't driven one on a less than perfect road surface because if you had you would know that along with the comments of light and nimble would go nervous and edgy. Not things which fill with confidence.

Lastly you clearly haven't driven any Audis since the 90series because if you had you would know that cars like the TT Mk2, RS4, S5 and R8 are all fun to drive.

But like I say and keep saying, unless it has a BMW badge you aren't interested.

Upwardly mobile men in the 30's?? Is there a Metrosexual qualifer on these "men"?

Wanna showcase all the FWD cars that are better / faster than RWD cars? FWD cars are purely done for cost reasons. The best FWD car EVER is the Integra Type R.

I hit the turtles hard with the Z4M, perhaps you are confusing fast responding chassis with nervous? There is a 2007 Audi A4 Avant on my driveway, it drives like shit...... Next silly assumption you want to make?

I can't beat up on you too much since you are getting a M3 but stop defending Audi, they make shitty driving cars, period.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

I'd say that last turbocharged S4 at the end of the 90s was pretty fun to drive. That whole generation of Audis was a good one. I really think some people's driving styles just arent suited to enjoy awd. I'm one of them which is why I don't compare audi and bmw as I think they have their own advantages and disadvantages. You're not going to convince a track-obsessed rwd feind that awd is good for much of anything except taking the fun out of driving and getting places in bad weather. So for that T Bone, I don't blame your perspective.

Not just the track.... I have an A4 Avant (2007) on my driveway and hopping between my 335xi and the A4 is amazing, and it has nothing to do with power.....

[asdflkijd]

the front kind of resembles the m-tech front on a E90

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Upwardly mobile men in the 30's?? Is there a Metrosexual qualifer on these "men"?

Will ignore as you seem to have issues with your sexuality to keep bringing this up.

Originally Posted by T Bone

Wanna showcase all the FWD cars that are better / faster than RWD cars? FWD cars are purely done for cost reasons. The best FWD car EVER is the Integra Type R.

The Renault Megane R26 power for power, weight for weight will out handle any rwd production car, the Focus RS was another, the Lotus Elan was another...........trust me you would be surprised by the number that could be on that list.

Originally Posted by T Bone

I hit the turtles hard with the Z4M, perhaps you are confusing fast responding chassis with nervous? There is a 2007 Audi A4 Avant on my driveway, it drives like shit...... Next silly assumption you want to make?

You can not look at a family estate car which sole purpose was to ferry it's passengers in as much comfort and safety as possible and regard every other Audi product the same. As for the Z4M Coupe, I know the chassis is very capable I would place it ahead of the E46 M3 but I know a nervous chassis when I see it and on the road it is, simple as that, in fact all of the UK magazines even commented on this as well. Clearly I am not in a minority among knowledgeable people. Audi's skill with their performance cars is to give their drives added confidence in the knowledge that the chassis is capable, this is something that the Z4M Coupe in particular doesn't do, but if you had driven one of a rough road surface you WOULD has known this.

Originally Posted by T Bone

I can't beat up on you too much since you are getting a M3 but stop defending Audi.

I am getting an M3 and it purely down to the fact that it has improved it's daily driving manner to a point where I think it's as good as Audi cars are. I also enjoy a rwd chassis, never said I didn't but I will defend a quality product and cars which are enjoyable to drive and the S5, TT, RS4 and R8 are all amazingly good cars to drive and all are different to that of any BMW. It's great that there is so many different types of wonderful driving cars to choose from.

P.S.

Originally Posted by T-bone

they make shitty driving cars, period

That is the stupidest statement I have ever heard. The R8 is quite possibly the best handling car recently available, it has won numerous awards as such which is something no BMW has ever done, NONE, ZIP, NOPE, NOTHING. BMW make great driving cars as an entire range but they are not the ultimate driving machine that their adverts would lead us to believe.

Edit.

But they are possibly the closest an entire range of cars has come to such a title.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Will ignore as you seem to have issues with your sexuality to keep bringing this up.

My sexuality is not in question since I don't drive an Audi

Originally Posted by footie

The Renault Megane R26 power for power, weight for weight will out handle any rwd production car, the Focus RS was another, the Lotus Elan was another...........trust me you would be surprised by the number that could be on that list.

FWD is fundamentally flawed versus RWD....you cited some examples where they worked these flaws on specific low volume cars

Originally Posted by footie

You can not look at a family estate car which sole purpose was to ferry it's passengers in as much comfort and safety as possible and regard every other Audi product the same. As for the Z4M Coupe, I know the chassis is very capable I would place it ahead of the E46 M3 but I know a nervous chassis when I see it and on the road it is, simple as that, in fact all of the UK magazines even commented on this as well. Clearly I am not in a minority among knowledgeable people. Audi's skill with their performance cars is to give their drives added confidence in the knowledge that the chassis is capable, this is something that the Z4M Coupe in particular doesn't do, but if you had driven one of a rough road surface you WOULD has known this.

Other than reading what the press thinks, I don't even know what you are saying. The Z4M is a highly reactive car.....guess what the Minis before the current generation were even twitchier (I used to own one).

Originally Posted by footie

That is the stupidest statement I have ever heard. The R8 is quite possibly the best handling car recently available, it has won numerous awards as such which is something no BMW has ever done, NONE, ZIP, NOPE, NOTHING. BMW make great driving cars as an entire range but they are not the ultimate driving machine that their adverts would lead us to believe.

You mean the Gallardo that Lambo did. What grounds-up car has Audi even done that handles well? Don't worry, you don't need to search too long....because they don't exist.

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by footie

Long response but still interesting.

You are quite correct that when the Haldex system does transfer more power to the rear is will sap more power be the reality is it never takes as much as the true original quattro system which many believe takes 25% ,myself I seem to doubt this based on comparison tests RS4 vs M3 but for argument sake lets say it saps 20%. So in the 1s that the front wheels break traction that 50% of power is shifted to the rear before being shifted again to the front over the next say 1.5s the TTS will only be making 220hp for the first second and about 240hp for the further 1.5s before the full power is returned. The lose of power and the extra traction will cancel each other out, but the fact remains it will get to 60mph in 5.0s, still not quick enough to equal the Z4M but that was never my argument in the first place.

I was and still remains, that the TTS on anything other than a perfectly surfaced road will be as quick if not quicker than the Z4M Coupe. And I won't be surprised to hear if in the hand of SportAuto it's quicker than the Cayman S on the track.

i have to admit that my response was also overly complicated - i just wasn't sure how to scale it down into fewer words, but i think i have it figured out now .

as i said before, i certainly agree with you that FWD saps less crank HP/TQ than RWD does, and that the same goes for the Haldex AWD system while operating in "FWD" mode (i.e. as long as traction is not a problem and the front/rear power and torque split is still 95/5). what i have doubts about is how often the TTS's Haldex will remain in "FWD" mode. under normal daily driving conditions, i can see how it would almost always be "FWD" mode - hence applying 95% of all HP/TQ to the front wheels and maintaining as little as 12% drivetrain loss. but in a head-to-head comparison against the Z4M (or any other competitive car for that matter), i have doubts as to how often the Haldex will maintain its default 95/5 front/rear split. now granted AWD platforms are known for their lateral grip, it is in the twisties that the front wheels of the TTS will struggle to maintain 100% traction. hence, while entering and exiting turns, the TTS will have less than 95% of its HP/TQ applied to the front wheels, and likewise will have greater than 5% applied to the rear wheels. this implies that drivetrain loss will increase beyond the typical 12% or so of a FWD system while in the twisties. so while AWD may help the TTS [in the twisties] with respect to lateral grip, it may hurt the TTS with respect to temporarily increased drivetrain loss - and i can see how these two aspects might cancel each other out and result in a wash. thus its hard for me to speculate that the TTS will be any quicker in the turns than the Z4M. it add to that the fact that on the straights, even though the TTS's Haldex unit may only be sapping 12% or so, the Z4M is going to make more wheel HP - even with its greater percentage drivetrain loss.

who knows if i'm right - its all speculation at this point...and i certainly cannot say that your speculation is incorrect. we'll just have to wait and see when the TTS hits the market. when is this thing due out anyways?

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

FWD is fundamentally flawed versus RWD....you cited some examples where they worked these flaws on specific low volume cars

As you come from the US or Canada I will excuse your ignorance towards fwd technologies as they are alien to you. Unless it's a big block v8 with leaf springs it's useless, ain't that right.

Originally Posted by T Bone

Other than reading what the press thinks, I don't even know what you are saying. The Z4M is a highly reactive car.....guess what the Minis before the current generation were even twitchier (I used to own one).

T-Bone, I know by the way you are describing the Z4M that the only driving you have done in this car is on either at a track or mill pond smooth roads, anything other than that the car is among the most nervous road cars I have driven. I think it's me who knows this car and not you.

Originally Posted by T Bone

You mean the Gallardo that Lambo did. What grounds-up car has Audi even done that handles well? Don't worry, you don't need to search too long....because they don't exist.

Are you so stupid as to think that it wasn't Audi that developed the Gallardo as they had already owned the company for a few years by that time.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

As you come for the US or Canada I will excuse your ignorance towards fwd technologies as they are alien to you. Unless it's a big block v8 with leaf springs it's unless, ain't that right.



T-Bone, I know by the way you are describing the Z4M that the only driving you have done in this car is on either at a track or mill pond smooth roads, anything other than that the car is among the most nervous road cars I have driven. I think it's me who knows this car and not you.



Are you so stupid as to think that it wasn't Audi that developed the Gallardo as they had already owned the company for a few years by that time.

Come on Footie, why can't we get along mate? Now that you are going to become a BMW owner, things will get better for you.

Let me buy you a latte mate

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Come on Footie, why can't we get along mate? Now that you are going to become a BMW owner, things will get better for you.

Let me buy you a latte mate

I am looking forward to driving my M3 in the future but if BMW car club members are as narrow-minded as you then I won't be attending.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

I am looking forward to driving my M3 in the future but if BMW car club members are as narrow-minded as you then I won't be attending.

You need to distinguish narrow-minded and goading you

[koreez88]

I always liked TT's looks. This one looks amazing

[Hampi]

...have driven one this week end. Impressive little bastard . Turning is so much better than my 335xi, no wonder its almost 400 pounds lighter. S-Tronic is relly great, but manual for me just as in my Bimmer . Interieur is really top notch, way better than in my ex Z4MR. Power is nice, but not impressive, but things can change with a different software and exhaust.
Nice done audi.

a lowered one:

[footie]

Originally Posted by Hampi

...have driven one this week end. Impressive little bastard . Turning is so much better than my 335xi, no wonder its almost 400 pounds lighter. S-Tronic is relly great, but manual for me just as in my Bimmer . Interieur is really top notch, way better than in my ex Z4MR. Power is nice, but not impressive, but things can change with a different software and exhaust.
Nice done audi.

a lowered one:

You are a lucky fellow, I have been wanting to get a drive in one of these as soon as it was revealed. When you say the power isn't impressive, is that compared to the 335i or the Z4M? Because according to stats the TTS is meant to be almost as quick as both of them, well the 335i at least.

[albeik]

Originally Posted by Hampi

...have driven one this week end. Impressive little bastard . Turning is so much better than my 335xi, no wonder its almost 400 pounds lighter. S-Tronic is relly great, but manual for me just as in my Bimmer . Interieur is really top notch, way better than in my ex Z4MR. Power is nice, but not impressive, but things can change with a different software and exhaust.
Nice done audi.

a lowered one:

WOW! That looks great! When are these coming over?! Do you know what they used to lower that TTS?

[Hampi]

Well, its photoshopped, but Eibach and H&R will offer springs soon. Here is stock one:

[Hampi]

BTW: Lag is way better than in the S3 even though its the same engine. Also performance wise a TTS wins over the S3: Acceleration in test equals that of tuned S3`.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by Hampi

BTW: Lag is way better than in the S3 even though its the same engine. Also performance wise a TTS wins over the S3: Acceleration in test equals that of tuned S3`.

Nice. I would also like you confirm what you meant about the power not being impressive. Is that compared to the 335i or Z4?

[Hampi]

Well, its compared to my 335 xi with SSTT. It needs more torque (the TTS).