[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by gthal

I'll rephrase for you... Porsche is very expensive.

Whether it is "overpriced" is subjective and suggests it doesn't provide value equal to price. My experience with the car is the high price is worth it for what you get. It won't be worth it to everyone and, yes, there is a brand premium IMO but, again, worth the experience.

160k for a turbo? That is overpriced.


160k i'll be in a gallardo.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

160k for a turbo? That is overpriced.


160k i'll be in a gallardo.

Many consider the 911 Turbo (S) to be like an exotic with great performance and much better reliability. So instead of buying an Italian car, they would go with Porsche.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Maybe it was the speed reading.

LOL. Touche!

All the best.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

160k for a turbo? That is overpriced.


160k i'll be in a gallardo.

160k does not get a new turbo, so we're talking used, right?

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

160k for a turbo? That is overpriced.


160k i'll be in a gallardo.

I'd be in a 12C

[fcman]

Originally Posted by John 070

160k does not get a new turbo, so we're talking used, right?

The only 2 for sale within 100 miles of me (Atlanta) are both under $170k ($165k and 162k)

[MiddleAgedAl]

Unless they move the engine to a place where it's mass is not fighting against you, then I can't see myself in a 911. Cayman GT4 perhaps, but not a 911.

In life, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You know you have a good idea when others copy it, in some form or another. How many other performance cars have that much mass hanging out behind the rear axle? I wonder why, when presented with a blank slate (CAD screen ?) to design a car, that nobody else does that....

All the track days that I've been to, 911's are disproportionately represented in the cars that leave the circuit on the back of a flatbed truck, after having slid ass first into something solid. Any Physics 10 student who is learning about mass moment of inertia can tell you why.

Yes, some pros like Patrick Long can use that to their advantage. I'm no Patrick Long. From what I've seen at track days, hardly anyone else is either !

[John 070]

Originally Posted by fcman

The only 2 for sale within 100 miles of me (Atlanta) are both under $170k ($165k and 162k)

Sounds like they wouldn't be heavily optioned....the 997 could be had equipped for 170.....

[oneup335]

I always wanted a 97 911 turbo, but its sooo damn pricey

[gthal]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Unless they move the engine to a place where it's mass is not fighting against you, then I can't see myself in a 911. Cayman GT4 perhaps, but not a 911.

In life, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You know you have a good idea when others copy it, in some form or another. How many other performance cars have that much mass hanging out behind the rear axle? I wonder why, when presented with a blank slate (CAD screen ?) to design a car, that nobody else does that....

All the track days that I've been to, 911's are disproportionately represented in the cars that leave the circuit on the back of a flatbed truck, after having slid ass first into something solid. Any Physics 10 student who is learning about mass moment of inertia can tell you why.

Yes, some pros like Patrick Long can use that to their advantage. I'm no Patrick Long. From what I've seen at track days, hardly anyone else is either !

I understand the physics but can tell you from personal experience, the 991 911 is MORE stable and less prone to oversteer than the M4. Porsche has done wonders tuning the suspension and chassis to use the weight over the rear to the car's advantage unlike older generations of the car. I have found the 991 be be incredibly stable, planted and easy to control.

How Porsche has done this is beyond me but they have. The ones I see having issues are older P-cars.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by gthal

I understand the physics but can tell you from personal experience, the 991 911 is MORE stable and less prone to oversteer than the M4 and easily as stable. Porsche has done wonders tuning the suspension and chassis to use the weight over the rear to the car's advantage unlike older generations of the car. I have found the 991 be be incredibly stable, planted and easy to control.

How Porsche has done this is beyond me but they have. The ones I see having issues are older P-cars.

I've not driven a 991 yet, but I can't say I'm too shocked to hear this. Just when you think they have reached the limit of what suspension tweaking and electronic nannies can do to compensate for the "flawed" engine placement, the next gen comes out and is somehow even more stable. Did they cure the understeer you get under certain dynamic loads due to the lack of weight over the front ?

I think I read somewhere that they have actually moved the engine an inch or two farther forward with the 991, perhaps the engineers way to implicitly acknowledging that there's only so far you can go when the center of mass is behind the rear axle. If they let the engine creep another inch or two forward with the next gen, I'd be open to considering it. 991 excluded, my limited experience tells me I prefer the way the Cayman drives, but since it's not their halo car, they will always ensure it can't beat it's older brother.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

160k for a turbo? That is overpriced.


160k i'll be in a gallardo.

Uh no.

[bogdan]

I'd like to have one at some point. There is always a Porsche 911 itch, and they are fantastic to drive in all generations, even if they're not the fastest variant.

[PSUSMU]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Unless they move the engine to a place where it's mass is not fighting against you, then I can't see myself in a 911. Cayman GT4 perhaps, but not a 911.

In life, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. You know you have a good idea when others copy it, in some form or another. How many other performance cars have that much mass hanging out behind the rear axle? I wonder why, when presented with a blank slate (CAD screen ?) to design a car, that nobody else does that....

All the track days that I've been to, 911's are disproportionately represented in the cars that leave the circuit on the back of a flatbed truck, after having slid ass first into something solid. Any Physics 10 student who is learning about mass moment of inertia can tell you why.

Yes, some pros like Patrick Long can use that to their advantage. I'm no Patrick Long. From what I've seen at track days, hardly anyone else is either !

The rear-engine is what makes the 911 so interesting. Porsche put the engine in the back and has spent the past 50 years making it perfect.
If you can learn to master driving a 911, it's more rewarding than probably any other car and the benefits outweigh the thought of the engine being in the wrong place.

[JasonCSU]

I always thought I'd have some generation of an air cooled 911 in my garage some day. However with how quickly those cars are appreciating, I think a better option would be to pick up a nice 997.

[SunnyD]

Thought about a GT3, but I can't escape my gut feeling that all Porsches are overpriced.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

Thought about a GT3, but I can't escape my gut feeling that all Porsches are overpriced.

Of course they are but oddly they have no trouble selling them. I don't get it either.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by justpete

Of course they are but oddly they have no trouble selling them. I don't get it either.

Because people see "value" differently.

I always thought they were overpriced (and they are, I guess) but after spending some time in one at the track and then driving a GTS, I decided that the feel of the car, the sound of the car, the way the car reacts to your input, etc are actually worth $50,000 more than my M4

I actually think that Porsche has created a car that just feels different and special when you drive it. I might describe it like this... luxury like my M4, more raw and responsive like my C7 Corvette, more refined than both. It's almost like someone took all of the great things from the M4 and the C7 Z51 Stingray and put them together... and then made that even better.

I may sound like I'm gushing but, I guess, it is because I am... the more time I have spent with 991 Porsches, the more their price premium doesn't matter to me. It is, largely, a subjective thing.

P.S. The M4 is still awesome and I am still completely in love with it. I just see how the extra $$ of a Porsche are worth it if someone can handle the financial commitment.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by gthal

Because people see "value" differently.

I always thought they were overpriced (and they are, I guess) but after spending some time in one at the track and then driving a GTS, I decided that the feel of the car, the sound of the car, the way the car reacts to your input, etc are actually worth $50,000 more than my M4

I actually think that Porsche has created a car that just feels different and special when you drive it. I might describe it like this... luxury like my M4, more raw and responsive like my C7 Corvette, more refined than both. It's almost like someone took all of the great things from the M4 and the C7 Z51 Stingray and put them together... and then made that even better.

I may sound like I'm gushing but, I guess, it is because I am... the more time I have spent with 991 Porsches, the more their price premium doesn't matter to me. It is, largely, a subjective thing.

That was a joke. Yeah, a crappy one, sorry...

Doesn't matter to me either but I can see how some could see it that way. It is the only factory stock car I can find less than a hundred and fifty grand that doesn't need a boatload of mods to not suck compared to what it could be. And refined is the perfect description, imho, thanks for that.

[NEFARIOUS]

Well, among other things of course, my buddy has been eyeballing 996s flooding my email and FB messages (not shown) with them. Since they're cool cars, I've actually been considering them... Not to mention when I was hanging out with him I saw 2 996s in a 15-minute timespan... Is this thread a sign I SHOULD get a Porsche??

Also not to mention my granduncle did own a 930 and it was a pretty sweet car; I'd always like going places with him as a kid, even though my dad was a hardcore liberal and hated his guts

[GotE46M]

Yes.. 997 GT3 or 991 GT3 within the next 2-3 years hopefully.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

Well, among other things of course, my buddy has been eyeballing 996s flooding my email and FB messages (not shown) with them. Since they're cool cars, I've actually been considering them...

For what its worth IMO the 996 is one of the least rewarding 911s to own.
I bought one new and had it for a couple of years, I didn't miss it for a second after I'd sold it. Would a 997 be out of reach?