[igzekyativ]

I reached out to a Euro/BMW shop near me, just to see what he had to say about the 328xi trans. Here is what he came back to me with:

"Has anyone retrieved diagnostic codes from the transfer case (VTG)? How many miles are on the car? The reason that I asked about mileage is because that transmission is not a particularly robust unit. If you have more than 100,000 miles and you can't be sure that the transmission fluid has been serviced with OE fluid, then we would not want to do the job. I would hate to charge anyone $4000.00 dollars and have the transmission crap out 6 months later (a real possibility) because the new fluid flushed out all the sediment that was providing friction. Thin ice..."



I sent the above to a friend of mine (service advisor) and asked him Should I have any concerns about changing out the TC and fluid? He told me:


"I understand his hesitance. It's a complex drivetrain and no matter what course of action you take at this point its going to be a pricey repair with results that can't be guaranteed.

The VTG was scanned during one of the initial visits as documented on the attached invoice. If I recall correctly, those codes were related to some work you had recently done (transfer case fluid change and replaced the transfer case actuator motor) and after clearing & calibration they did not return.

Obviously I can't say whether or not the fluid had been changed prior to you owning it (I bought the car at 98,000), but the fluid we put in was the OE (AC Delco Dexron VI) fluid. Of course there are varying opinions on changing trans fluid on high mileage cars. Some techs don't recommend it over 100K if it had never been serviced before due to similar concerns mentioned above regarding flushing out friction-providing sediments. In your case it was kind of a last resort option and seemed to be beneficial, albeit temporarily. But with that in mind, in addition to the frequency of problems BMW had had with the torque converter (enough to issue that TSB), I would be of the opinion that it's safe to rule out the VTG as a cause of your issue."

[xthejuicex]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

You trusted the jack stands at their highest setting? How tall are the 3 ton stands you have (I'd like to compare to my 2 ton)?

They are much bigger all around than the 2 tons. I had them at 2 steps up and that was as far as my jack could get the car up. No where near the highest setting. They are very solid.

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

the liftstands guy recommended this specific jack - http://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-l...ump-60678.html

That is the jack I use most often myself, it works very well.

[rothwem]

I vote manual swap.

[igzekyativ]

So i pulled the transmission and replaced the torque converter... the issue happens less often, for sure, but it still happens some times. so NOT a complete fix. next step is to replac the trans.. not sure I am going to do that.

power delivery feels better and gas mileage has gone up though!

[Willsbma]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have a similar problem that is engine related, I'm a manual transmission.

I want to swap my gas pedal and see if that helps. Just an idea

[igzekyativ]

I guess the TC had a break in period because I do not have any shudder anymore.. finally, yay!

[GearHead335i]

Bought lubegard shudder fix and was wondering if I can just open up the fill plug when the car is cold without any fluid pouring out? Or do I have to drain and your do an entire transmission fluid change?

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by Quinnhogue7

Bought lubegard shudder fix and was wondering if I can just open up the fill plug when the car is cold without any fluid pouring out? Or do I have to drain and your do an entire transmission fluid change?

The old "mechanic in a bottle" solution, good luck with that.

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by JETmn

The old "mechanic in a bottle" solution, good luck with that.

Yea, the stuff worked for a few weeks, but ultimately I needed a new torque converter...

[sonofsun]

So where did you buy the torque converter from and what part number.

[igzekyativ]

i got a re-manufactured one from here http://www.torqueconverter1.com/Quick_Quotation.html

I will note, that after a year (and I don't think they all would do this) but my re-manufactured TC is having issues (I believe). The car lurches forward when I release the brake from a stop, and the car is hard to hold still at a stop (have to press the brake harder than normal to keep it still). This started to happen after 2 very hard accelerations from lights one random day. Everything way great until I did that. The shop i took it too thinks its the TC and that somehow it is gripping too much and that is why it is hard to hold still at a light. If i throw it in neutral at a stop, everything is fine.

I bought my re-manned TC for just over $300 inc shipping, $900 to install it (tried myself, but ended up having the shop do it b/c of time limitations). A new brand new TC is $2500+. So the dilemma now is do I try again for the re-manned TC and save a ton of money or go for the real deal and be out $3500...

I did email the seller b/c the re-manned TC has a 1 year warranty, but I'd have to pull the TC, send it to him, and then once he reviews it, he would let me know if he would replace it under warranty. Otherwise, I could buy another one, swap them, send it back, and he would issue a refund if it was the TC. However, shipping the TC from east to west coast probably costs as much as the TC....

[R1blade75]

Just revisiting this thread. Are you still having problems with your remanufactured Torque Converter after 1 year?

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

i got a re-manufactured one from here http://www.torqueconverter1.com/Quick_Quotation.html

I will note, that after a year (and I don't think they all would do this) but my re-manufactured TC is having issues (I believe). The car lurches forward when I release the brake from a stop, and the car is hard to hold still at a stop (have to press the brake harder than normal to keep it still). This started to happen after 2 very hard accelerations from lights one random day. Everything way great until I did that. The shop i took it too thinks its the TC and that somehow it is gripping too much and that is why it is hard to hold still at a light. If i throw it in neutral at a stop, everything is fine.

I bought my re-manned TC for just over $300 inc shipping, $900 to install it (tried myself, but ended up having the shop do it b/c of time limitations). A new brand new TC is $2500+. So the dilemma now is do I try again for the re-manned TC and save a ton of money or go for the real deal and be out $3500...

I did email the seller b/c the re-manned TC has a 1 year warranty, but I'd have to pull the TC, send it to him, and then once he reviews it, he would let me know if he would replace it under warranty. Otherwise, I could buy another one, swap them, send it back, and he would issue a refund if it was the TC. However, shipping the TC from east to west coast probably costs as much as the TC....

Originally Posted by R1blade75

Just revisiting this thread. Are you still having problems with your remanufactured Torque Converter after 1 year?

If you read my post above it describes the issues I've had. I have not pulled the re-manned TC and replaced it, but I want to. My car still lurches forward when I release the brake from a stop, and the car is hard to hold still at a stop (have to press the brake harder than normal to keep it still).

[minihearse]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

Solution - Buy new (re-manufactured) torque converter and install.


2016.4.22 - I changed the transmission fluid and added two Lubegard additives. It's only been one day and so far so good. I will report back in a couple weeks time.

2016.4.27 - Everything is still good, the shudder has not returned.

2016.5.20 - Shudder returned

2016.6.18 - broken leg.. repairs will have to wait

2016.11 - ordered remanufactured TC and installed. Shudder is less, but still present

2016.12 - TC has broken in and I do not have any shudder anymore.. finally, yay!


Original Post:
Hello, looking for some help to diagnose my 328xi Shudder/Shaking Issue

Here is the info on the car:
2007 BMW 328xi Wagon
~101,000 miles

I already took the car to an indy shop Sterling, VA and they could not correctly diagnose the problem. I've taken the car to BMW and they told me it was software and coils, which we fixed, and they did not solve the problem. The indy shop told me I needed new driveshaft flex discs, and that while doing that job they could take a look at the transfer case (it was leaking oil) as it could be a contributing factor. They also said the engine does not seem to be the problem and they ruled out coil packs causing the issue. They noted that the engine mounts seem to be ok, but that with a prybar they were able to move the engine, so there is signs of wear. BMW said it was an engine problem and not drivetrain.

I bought this car a few month ago and it needed work right away. I replaced the battery, water pump, thermostat, valve cover gasket, valve cover, valve cover screws, spark plugs, and eccentric shaft sensor.

Now on to the problem. After the car has reached full operating temperature, the issue starts to present itself. Basically, the car shudders/shakes when applying the throttle just a little (~1-8%). It happens at all speeds, and only in the 1200-2500 RPM range. It happens in non-sport mode and in sport mode, but more so in non-sport mode, due to lower RPMs. It does not happen when the car accelerates at a good pace, and does not happen at WOT. I am also noticing that the shaking/vibrations happens during shifts under light load.

The indy shop said they could replicate the problem when they were cruising at about 40 mph and then applied 2-5% throttle. For me it happens constantly on my 25 mile commute to and from work. It takes about 10-15 miles of driving before the problem really starts to show up and the stop and go traffic intensifies the shaking. It feels as if I am going over rumble strips, but there is no noise. Going up a hill exacerbates the issue and the stuttering/shaking happens more frequently.

After taking the car to the indy shop:

1 - I replaced the front and rear guibos and the center bearing on the rear driveshaft.
1.1 - This did not resolve the issue.

2 - I removed the front driveshaft and drove around.
2.1 - The issue was still present.
2.2 - I re-installed the front driveshaft.
2.3 - Issue must reside within the rear drive-line or engine.

3 - I replaced the rear output shaft seal (item #3 in the image) as well as the o-ring (item #5), drained and filled the transfer case fluid, replaced the fill and drain plugs, had the transmission learning reset, and had the transfer case programmed for its new oil.
3.1 - This did not solve the problem.
3.2 - The transfer case was leaking from the o ring, and not the seal.
3.2.1 - I suspect do to the shaking/vibrations.
3.2.2 - Replaced the seal anyways.
3.3 - I thought maybe the fluid was low due to the leak and the clutches in the transfer case were not working properly.

Not knowing what to do and not wanting to waste money, I took the car to BMW for diagnostics. They told me the entire car needed to have its software updated because it was still running its original 2006 software and that the ignition coils were causing the shaking. The tech's notes said, "Vehicle let idle at operating temperature, with slight tap on gas pedal, vibration was felt on engine. Vehicle test drove and vibration felt at all speed around 1800 RPM with light load on engine. Smooth running value checked to verify erratic spike on reading for cylinder 1 and 3 after short test. Removal on ignition coil to verify vehicle has 2006 (possible original) ignition coils. Replacement of all ignition coils, plugs* and resealing valve cover* recommended." *I just replaced the plugs and valve cover less than 1,000 miles ago. All of this lead him to believe that it is an engine problem and not a drivetrain problem.

4 - I had BMW update all of the software on my car (took 10+ hours to do this).
4.1 - Did not resolve the issue

5 - I ordered and replaced all ignition coils.
5.1 - did not resolve the issue.

6 - Replaced the transfer case actuator motor
6.1 - this did not solve the problem
6.2 - the original motor gears show no signs of wear

I had 3 suspicions as to what the problem is before taking it to BMW:
A - The rear driveshaft is messed up (unbalanced, bad u-joint, etc) and needs to be replaced/refurbished.
i - I have read about “harmonic vibrations” where things hit a certain RPM which resonates the rotating piece and causes the vibration.
ii - Could be a bad u-joint causing the shaking.

B - Something with the transmission because the car sometimes shakes when shifting, but that could also be due to the driveshaft shaking at different RPMs.
i - This is just my own thoughts, not really sure about it, maybe a slipping torque converter?

ALL I WANT TO DO IS STOP WASTING MONEY ON SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T WORK.

Hopefully I've done a thorough job describing my issues, but please feel free to ask me for any additional details you think would be helpful.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

so we almost have the same car and mine is doing the same thing I just got a remanufacured t case and its still doing it I think I may have gotten a bad tc case but was the touque converter really helpful? when accelerating really slow it sometimes jerks aggressivly and once I let off and start again its good. if I drive it hard its way better, they have said softwear and all that too I'm about 5k into trying to solve this. when yours was sputtering did it feel like it didn't know where to put power to each wheel like they were almost fighting each other?

[328wagonmaster]

igzekyativ, did you ever replace the transmission filter ? If not that is the problem. I did a fluid change after getting some shutter/slip and it got better for a while and then returned. I then drained trans pulled the pan and did a new filter and fluid and the new filter fixed it. It was completely clogged and starving the pump for fluid. Also you need to reset adaptions on the transmission as well as resetting the Xfer case. The Xfer case reset is critical otherwise you will burn the clutch plates and they will seize. If you're steering became difficult especially at low speed it needs calibrating asap.

[amerqashou]

Hello igzekyativ,

Just wanted to get an update if your issue was fixed completely with replacing torque converter and no other issued came up or the original issue.

Thanks

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by amerqashou

Hello igzekyativ,

Just wanted to get an update if your issue was fixed completely with replacing torque converter and no other issued came up or the original issue.

Thanks

replacing the torque converter fixed this issue for me...

however, I went with a remanufactured one ($300) vs a new one ($2800) and one day I floored it from a light and some other issue came up, there is now extra grip in the system - when I am at a full stop, the engine is sending a little more power than normal to the wheels and I have to apply extra pressure to the brake to stay still. I've been dealing with this for several years without issue. I do plan to replace the TC again, but I just don't have the time/energy to do it myself again and labor is like $800-$1000

[StewtheBassman]

So my 2011 X5d (383,000kms) has been shuddering lately - it's when I am approaching 1500RPM and gently accelerate past that. It shudders and then when the revs get up to 1700 or so everything is fine. It is particularly annoying when I was doing a long trip on a two-lane highway recently that kept me at or around the 80km/hr zone. The engine likes being in that 1500rpm range, so it was shuddering a lot.

When I got out on the highway after 6 hours of driving in hot weather and hit a dip in the road where the highway joined a bridge, it revved up super high for a second or so and returned to normal.

I had the Transfer Case oil changed yesterday. I don't have any transmission fault codes (Carly for BMW) and the dealer's technician cleared all my old fault codes out yesterday (including the one for the bad Transfer case oil).

I don't have problems starting and the engine runs great, so probably not a camshaft sensor or Glow Plug.

Is my next stop a deep dive into Torque Converter Potential Problems?

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by StewtheBassman

So my 2011 X5d (383,000kms) has been shuddering lately - it's when I am approaching 1500RPM and gently accelerate past that. It shudders and then when the revs get up to 1700 or so everything is fine. It is particularly annoying when I was doing a long trip on a two-lane highway recently that kept me at or around the 80km/hr zone. The engine likes being in that 1500rpm range, so it was shuddering a lot.

When I got out on the highway after 6 hours of driving in hot weather and hit a dip in the road where the highway joined a bridge, it revved up super high for a second or so and returned to normal.

I had the Transfer Case oil changed yesterday. I don't have any transmission fault codes (Carly for BMW) and the dealer's technician cleared all my old fault codes out yesterday (including the one for the bad Transfer case oil).

I don't have problems starting and the engine runs great, so probably not a camshaft sensor or Glow Plug.

Is my next stop a deep dive into Torque Converter Potential Problems?

I would, it helped me

[perplexedbeemerowner]

As for the stuttering I have a 2007 BMW 530xi with the same problem. I took it to Aamco because I thought it was the transmission. They told me it needed plugs and coils. S0 1200 dollars later the problem is still there. So Aamco tells me the torque convertor is bad and flooded the trans with bits of metal. Okay so $5,200 to rebuild the trans. The problem is still there. I go to BMW paid for the diagnostic and other then my wiper pump and a few gasket leaks, My torque convertor is bad and my mechatronic seal is leaking. So I go back to Aamco. Now he tells me the trans is okay but he found another issue but he was busy and will call back.

[GearHead335i]

Originally Posted by perplexedbeemerowner

As for the stuttering I have a 2007 BMW 530xi with the same problem. I took it to Aamco because I thought it was the transmission. They told me it needed plugs and coils. S0 1200 dollars later the problem is still there. So Aamco tells me the torque convertor is bad and flooded the trans with bits of metal. Okay so $5,200 to rebuild the trans. The problem is still there. I go to BMW paid for the diagnostic and other then my wiper pump and a few gasket leaks, My torque convertor is bad and my mechatronic seal is leaking. So I go back to Aamco. Now he tells me the trans is okay but he found another issue but he was busy and will call back.

Aamco is a chain, so there should be some form of recourse here. First and foremost I would stop excepting the BS that they are telling you. You were most certainly overcharged for plugs and coils. If you paid $1200 for them, even for parts and labor, that’s way too much. Next, $5200 for a transmission rebuild is absurd, especially for a car that is barely worth $5200. You could’ve just gotten a used transmission on eBay for less than $500 and had someone install it.

At the end of the day if I put myself in your situation I would march back into AAMCO and tell them to either rebuild your transmission once again, because obviously the work they did was shotty at best if the torque converter is already bad and they obviously installed the Mechatronic sleeve incorrectly. If they refuse or try and tell you some other BS tell them you can’t have any more communication with them and that your lawyer will be reaching out as you will be taking them to small claims court to get your $5200 back.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I hate when mechanics, or anyone for that matter, try and take advantage of people. Good luck man

[perplexedbeemerowner]

My 2007 530xi would stutter once warmed up and around 2500 RPM. I had the sparkplugs and coils changed, the solenoids changes, the transmission rebuilt and a replaced torque converter because the new one was defective.
When I went to BMW for diagnostic (Now it's at AAMCO) they tome me of leaking seals and bad torque converter. That's 2 days after I got it back from AAMCO. They mentioned in their diagnostic that the "transfer Case" should get a fluid change however... FLUID CHANGE MAY RESULT IN TRANSFER CASE FAILURE.... WHAT?? Every site I go to tells me to change the fluid after so many miles. I bought this boat anchor December 24th. and had it in my possession for 12 days total. The rest of the time it's been at BMW, AAMCO, and the local garage where I started this journey.
Today AAMCO tells le it might be my transfer case. Why not? It's the only thing not replaced or rebuilt. He said when it was disconnected the car ran with no stutters or jutters. It ran smooth. So now what? Another $3,000.00 into this car? Since I bought it for $3,200.00 I've put in $11,000.00 dollars and counting. Washer pump still doesn't work and CV Boot is torn. SO there you have it. It's the transfer case. The only thing I didn't fix or replace so I narrowed it down. Hope it helps someone