[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Em135eye

Disagree with the facts I just posted?
Sounds about right...

So let me get this right...you want to engage me in arguing facts over the internet? Yeah no

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Right assuming the guy just walks into your house through all your family and says, yeah sir no problem just stealing this tv/Rolex on the dresser and I'll be on my way everyone just go about your normal business or hey buddy relax I'm just busting this car window to get that cool backpack, if you would just keep walking I won't hurt you ok....

The problem is I'm not a mind reader. I have no idea why a man or men have entered my house or property illegally unannounced possibly at night....should I conversate with them and see if they just want to rob some valuables and then they will just go, and we can all go by our evening like normal....now I'll call the police right....
Negative, you come into my house unannounced especially with my family present, and you shall be introduced to an aggressive tactical response, and well within my rights to do so...in the beautiful country of Texas(I'm a native NYer by the way, escaped long time ago).
I have worked in some way or capacity with a firearm in my hand for over 17 years, and one of the reasons I moved to Texas was specifically because of their gun laws. I can even carry it fully open now more than ever.

Would I have shot that idiot in the G37 that day, almost positively not, but I may have been fully ready to while reading his body language, approach posture and hands as he walked up to my car. But I would have long before this aggressively de-escalated the situation. Flip me off, curse...roger, sorry sir I'm an idiot you're right, (now go away, thinking in my head)....
In my mind, I always have more to loose than the asshole in the street. There is a force continuum which you elude to, but that is immediately nullified in many cases by a person trespassing or violating personal space. And remember that this issue of proportionate force is very gray, what is proportional to me isn't to a 5' 130lbs female, so that creates more issues.....but not in Texas....you cross the line, I shoot....or "can" shoot. And believe me I've used my weapon before, I've had arguments and threats called out at me, they never knew I was armed. I'm not "proud" like that, have nothing to prove to an idiot. My pride and honor don't rest on an altercation in my daily life.
I'm no cowboy and would prefer at all costs that I don't use my weapon, It is a huge responsibility being a gun owner but sometimes there is a context for shoot first question later. I like it when the law supports this.

You're a NY transplant and TX and love it? How long ago and which part of TX?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Right assuming the guy just walks into your house through all your family and says, yeah sir no problem just stealing this tv/Rolex on the dresser and I'll be on my way everyone just go about your normal business or hey buddy relax I'm just busting this car window to get that cool backpack, if you would just keep walking I won't hurt you ok....

The problem is I'm not a mind reader. I have no idea why a man or men have entered my house or property illegally unannounced possibly at night....should I conversate with them and see if they just want to rob some valuables and then they will just go, and we can all go by our evening like normal....now I'll call the police right....
Negative, you come into my house unannounced especially with my family present, and you shall be introduced to an aggressive tactical response, and well within my rights to do so...in the beautiful country of Texas(I'm a native NYer by the way, escaped long time ago).
I have worked in some way or capacity with a firearm in my hand for over 17 years, and one of the reasons I moved to Texas was specifically because of their gun laws. I can even carry it fully open now more than ever.

Would I have shot that idiot in the G37 that day, almost positively not, but I may have been fully ready to while reading his body language, approach posture and hands as he walked up to my car. But I would have long before this aggressively de-escalated the situation. Flip me off, curse...roger, sorry sir I'm an idiot you're right, (now go away, thinking in my head)....
In my mind, I always have more to loose than the asshole in the street. There is a force continuum which you elude to, but that is immediately nullified in many cases by a person trespassing or violating personal space. And remember that this issue of proportionate force is very gray, what is proportional to me isn't to a 5' 130lbs female, so that creates more issues.....but not in Texas....you cross the line, I shoot....or "can" shoot. And believe me I've used my weapon before, I've had arguments and threats called out at me, they never knew I was armed. I'm not "proud" like that, have nothing to prove to an idiot. My pride and honor don't rest on an altercation in my daily life.
I'm no cowboy and would prefer at all costs that I don't use my weapon, It is a huge responsibility being a gun owner but sometimes there is a context for shoot first question later. I like it when the law supports this.

John McClain? Pew pew!

[MalibuBimmer]

Speaking of karma . . .

Last year I'm going to Jerry's Deli in Woodland Hills, just past the intersection of Topanga and Ventura. The left turn is into a signal controlled driveway. I'm heading east. Traffic going west is a bit heavy. I get my chance to turn left, into Jerry's driveway and start to cross the traffic in the other lane.

Everything is clear, but some jerk driving a small private-school bus decides I have offended her and speeds up to try to make my turn close and teach me a lesson. I complete my turn, but speed up slightly to avoid the bus, scraping the front end on the driveway.

And then I hear a crash. The westbound traffic had stopped for the light at Ventura and Topanga, and the school bus driver was paying attention to me, not the traffic in her lane. She hit the car stopped just after the driveway intersection and it hit the car in front of it.

While it was satisfying that the bad driver got in an accident, I did feel sorry for the two innocent victims who were completely stopped. I didn't wait around to see what happened.

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by C5driver

So let me get this right...you want to engage me in arguing facts over the internet? Yeah no

Are you a politician? Your "skills" in defending your position suggest so.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

You're a NY transplant and TX and love it? How long ago and which part of TX?

North of Houston. I actually prefer every state I've lived in over NY.
NY has one great thing and that's food, nothing like a NY slice of pizza.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

John McClain? Pew pew!

Actually know McCain. Purty cool dude.

Originally Posted by Em135eye

Are you a politician? Your "skills" in defending your position suggest so.

Lol, seems like you're definitely bored and have all your spreadsheets out ready to rebuttal anything. Facts, statistics, liberals....blah blah blah....you win.
I have the same position as below.

Originally Posted by C5driver

...you want to engage me in arguing facts over the internet? Yeah no

[Em135eye]

Yeah why let facts get in the way of an opinion.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

North of Houston. I actually prefer every state I've lived in over NY.
NY has one great thing and that's food, nothing like a NY slice of pizza.



Actually know McCain. Purty cool dude.



Lol, seems like you're definitely bored and have all your spreadsheets out ready to rebuttal anything. Facts, statistics, liberals....blah blah blah....you win.
I have the same position as below.

Obviously, you are not just a white male obsessed with guns, killing and being able to "save" the world in a terrorist scenario with your .40s&w. No, I'm sure you are equally prepared for situations you are more likely to encounter than a shootout, such as carrying a fire-extinguisher with you wherever you go, first-aid kit, epi-pen, extra batteries, fire-starting equipment, etc. Otherwise of course, you'd look ridiculous by claiming you carried a gun to be "prepared"....

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Obviously, you are not just a white male obsessed with guns, killing and being able to "save" the world in a terrorist scenario with your .40s&w. No, I'm sure you are equally prepared for situations you are more likely to encounter than a shootout, such as carrying a fire-extinguisher with you wherever you go, first-aid kit, epi-pen, extra batteries, fire-starting equipment, etc. Otherwise of course, you'd look ridiculous by claiming you carried a gun to be "prepared"....

Excellent post, well made points.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Obviously, you are not just a white male obsessed with guns, killing and being able to "save" the world in a terrorist scenario with your .40s&w. No, I'm sure you are equally prepared for situations you are more likely to encounter than a shootout, such as carrying a fire-extinguisher with you wherever you go, first-aid kit, epi-pen, extra batteries, fire-starting equipment, etc. Otherwise of course, you'd look ridiculous by claiming you carried a gun to be "prepared"....

I'm not any of the things you mentioned above. Although as a paramedic by profession I do carry a lot of life saving gear in my trunk, at all times, but yes not on my person. Nor do I carry a gun everywhere I go, actually I never take a gun with me except on long trips or while I'm in the woods.

But I like to have the freedom to do it as a law abiding citizen. I don't consider myself a hero nor do I ever carry if I carry to "save the world" from a terrorist or criminal. I simply carry in an effort to keep myself, family and property safe. That's my primary reason. I have ran to the sound of the guns for much too long in my life, you know nothing about me. In my personal life with my family by my side, I seek to run away from the sound of the guns.

As for all those silly things you lump into the same context of preparations as a defence scenario, that's just dumb. No one's ever been the victim of a criminal yellow jacket attack or robbed because they ran out of batteries in their iphone. Being prepared is as much a state of mind and situational awareness as much as carrying a weapon. I have worked with a gun in my hand for too long and when I'm off there's nothing more that I want to do than distance myself from work.

But if a law abiding tax paying citizen of this country(America) wants to carry a gun, why not, because criminals and mentally damaged people use them for wrong....what are the statistics for vehicular accidents and drunk drivers, I'm sure those stats are high, and those aren't even criminals, let's take cars away, put everyone on public transportation, lose your license after one accident, and there's even more training and legal procedures involved in getting a drivers license. But still, idiots exist there too.

[Em135eye]

So you have your gun. You are "safe" against criminals.
Or are you?
I'm British Army trained with high APWT scores yet my bro in law is an ex sniper and Army weapons tester. So you have your handgun and you come up against him. Or even me.
You honestly think a bit of range shooting will help you draw, aim and fire accurately enough? Because once that gun is drawn, you've raised the stakes to kill or be killed. And in that situation you'd better be very very sure of yourself in that ultra high pressure environment. I liken it to martial arts; you can train as much as you want and be the highest grade but how would you react in a street fight? The dynamics are COMPLETELY different and the stakes far higher.

It's like pulling a knife at a fist fight; suddenly you have raised those stakes to the highest level. You are giving your opponent permission to do the same or disarm you and kill you with your own knife.

Scary isn't it? Luckily it's a situation we don't have to deal with. Ever.

It's too late to "fix" America's broken gun laws and mentality; another school massacre; the standard answer? Arm the teachers. Oh my word, what has happened to the land of the free?

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Yep...it's the same cowboy mentality that has us going around the world saving countries like England from Hitler and stuff

you're taking credit for a team effort (I don't know what you've been taught in school though)

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by Em135eye

So you have your gun. You are "safe" against criminals.
Or are you?
I'm British Army trained with high APWT scores yet my bro in law is an ex sniper and Army weapons tester. So you have your handgun and you come up against him. Or even me.....

Bro, stop. Take easy killer. So you're a certified badass, and now you want me rebuttal and mention how badass I am. Not.

But first of all show me where I said I'm "safe" because I have a gun. Read my words carefully. I specifically and clearly said I don't even carry it in my daily life.

And all that jargon about who you come up on is silly, in that context I wouldn't do any martial arts, or anything in trying to prepare myself in life, besides what the hell would a British badass be doing coming into my house illegally at 0100 in the morning.

[fastaction]

the more you drive the less intelligent you are -Repo Man

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Em135eye

Are you a politician? Your "skills" in defending your position suggest so.

No, I'm just tired of you. Please...leave me alone.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

you're taking credit for a team effort (I don't know what you've been taught in school though)

Yes...I know it was a team effort. Hyperbole for effect, dude.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

I'm not any of the things you mentioned above.

As americans, and especially males, we are trained from an early age to be those things. We play "cops and robbers" and " cowboys an indians" from a young age, training ourselves to shoot others with guns. Go look at the toy-isle at any department store and tell me there are not dozens and dozens of toy guns. Whether you believe it or not, as americans and males, we are fascinated by guns. This is lagely responsible for the situation we are in, as we have flooded ourselves with guns. Why give flowers when you can give guns? And with so many guns, some will fall through the cracks, get sold in straw-man purchases, given to family and friends, and so on. It's the shear number that has screwed us over, and people want to tell us that even more guns will make it better? We're literally dying from all this freedom.

But I like to have the freedom to do it as a law abiding citizen.

There is no such thing as "law abiding", I guarantee there are laws that you break. Not only that, but freedom is a balance, of other people's freedom to not be shot by someone in domestic violence, impulsive anger, or affected by suicide, etc.

I don't consider myself a hero nor do I ever carry if I carry to "save the world" from a terrorist or criminal. I simply carry in an effort to keep myself, family and property safe. That's my primary reason. I have ran to the sound of the guns for much too long in my life, you know nothing about me. In my personal life with my family by my side, I seek to run away from the sound of the guns.

As for all those silly things you lump into the same context of preparations as a defence scenario...., that's just dumb.

Yes, this is how I determine that it's more about fascination with guns and insecurity, as all of those other scenarios are far more likely than needing your gun, so given that, I'd expect you to be prepared for those well before needing a gun.

But if a law abiding tax paying citizen of this country(America) wants to carry a gun, why not

Mainly, because there is no such thing. People are a spectrum, from one end of the scale (good) to the other (bad). Just because you obey most laws doesn't mean you won't snap and take someone's life, or attempt to, like the guy I posted above that ran down the kid long after the crime had been committed. It's because people aren't robots and capable of controlling their actions at all times. Because that gun is far more likely to be used in domestic violence or suicide than "getting the bad guys". Now, if there was an appropriate vetting process, required training and testing, the gun was registered to you, along with the bullets, and the bullets maybe cost around $100 each, then I'd be ok with it, since you'd probably be responsible with the ammo costing that much and all the other controls to ensure you would use it properly and safely. This wouldn't affect your ability to go "John McClain" in any situation, but it would help to ensure that it wasn't just some random criminal or soon-to-be criminal that got their hands on a gun. I'm definitely not against gun ownership, but it puts a lot of power in one's hands to be able to take a life by simply pointing and pulling a trigger. We have never addressed that. Sure, people get stabbed to death sometimes, but mass stabbings are almost unheard of. There was one a few months back in a london subway. Guess how many people died? Zero.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Em135eye

Wow, that was only 60 years ago.
Meanwhile in modern history...

165 school shootings since 2013.
294 mass shootings in 2015
12223 people killed in gun incidents in 2015.

Both 2015 figures didn't include December.

It baffles and horrifies the rest of the World how utterly blind the US is to this massive crisis.

Sadly, they lump suicides in most, 'gun incidents' statistics. Is this the case with yours?

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Sadly, they lump suicides in most, 'gun incidents' statistics. Is this the case with yours?

Also...accidental deaths? Good people shooting bad people? Cops shooting bad people? Bad people shooting good people? What about the ever popular bad people shooting bad people?

Whenever I see people arguing stats on the internet, my skin itches.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

you're taking credit for a team effort (I don't know what you've been taught in school though)

Everyone knows who did the majority of the heavy lifting. C'mon! Really?

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Sadly, they lump suicides in most, 'gun incidents' statistics. Is this the case with yours?

Yup that would be the case with his stats.. Self-defense kills are also lumped into that number. The vast majority of gun violence is inner city, gang related AND not caused by law abiding gun owners. Yes disarm the sum bag gang bangers but keep your fucking hands of off my Glock.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Yup that would be the case with his stats.. Self-defense kills are also lumped into that number. The vast majority of gun violence is inner city, gang related AND not caused by law abiding gun owners. Yes disarm the sum bag gang bangers but keep your fucking hands of off my Glock.

True.