[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well accept for all the supplier awards from most of the major auto manufacturers... And no company is going to manufacture to two different specs between OEM and aftermarket for the same part. The price difference wouldn't make up for the logistics costs of keeping to processes running in the same plant. You are just paying for the Roundel.

You think BMW builds cars in China to a different specification in China vs. the US vs. South Africa vs. Germany?

I'm certain of it. Cars sold in Canada are a different spec from cars sold in the US. Cars in the EU are different from those in the US.

It's almost guaranteed that certain parts that do not need to meed strict EU standards will be replaced by lesser parts in other markets.

The China market is enormous, and they even make Chinese only BMW models (like the stretch 5 series) that are specific to that market.

It makes no sense from a business standpoint to make cars that meet EU crash standards, when all that's required is Chinese standards. You can increase profits by tens, if not hundreds of millions.

No big corporation leaves that kind of money on the table.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

I'm certain of it. Cars sold in Canada are a different spec from cars sold in the US. Cars in the EU are different from those in the US.

It's almost guaranteed that certain parts that do not need to meed strict EU standards will be replaced by lesser parts in other markets.

The China market is enormous, and they even make Chinese only BMW models (like the stretch 5 series) that are specific to that market.

It makes no sense from a business standpoint to make cars that meet EU crash standards, when all that's required is Chinese standards. You can increase profits by tens, if not hundreds of millions.

No big corporation leaves that kind of money on the table.

I disagree. To build a 3 series in China and for the EU to different specification means redesigning the entire car. Use different gauge sheet metal? means redesigned tooling and production engineering. Use thinner glass? redesigned tooling and re-sized A-pillars, door glass mechanisms. It is more expensive to redesign the car (parts) than just build to one world-wide spec. Minor derivatives are market-specific and cost effective to implement, but the major design of the car is designed and built to a world-wide specification.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I disagree. To build a 3 series in China and for the EU to different specification means redesigning the entire car. Use different gauge sheet metal? means redesigned tooling and production engineering. Use thinner glass? redesigned tooling and re-sized A-pillars, door glass mechanisms. It is more expensive to redesign the car (parts) than just build to one world-wide spec. Minor derivatives are market-specific and cost effective to implement, but the major design of the car is designed and built to a world-wide specification.

I agree, it could be that China has sub 320i models, and that the same model could have different features, obviously xenons, leds, halogens, etc., but unlikely door panels, oem glass, etc.

But I can honestly say the 328i F30 feels like lesser of a car than my E92...so in that case yes maybe some stuff is cheapified when compared to a 335i E92.

[MrSteak]

Originally Posted by John 070

Not sure if it's all in my head or what. But once I realized that all the glass on the 328i I'm driving was made by Fuyao, it's like the car didn't handle as well anymore and the motor was kind of rough even for a four banger...

It's more about quality materials than poor engineering.

I love my 335i, but they clearly skimped on a lot of interior trim pieces compared to older generation BMWs.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You think BMW builds cars in China to a different specification in China vs. the US vs. South Africa vs. Germany?

Yes & No.

It's possible that BMW may just build a cheaper model for the Chinese market. Fewer or different regulations/standards in China can lead to cost cutting and an inferior product. Or it's simply the chinese workers.... Who knows?

If you remember back a few years when Toyota/Lexus had massive recalls; the problems were isolated to vehicles manufactured in the US, while those made in Japan were unaffected. Again, the vehicles were probably designed to the same specifications, but the problem was isolated to vehicles manufactured by the US.

Or just look at the Takata airbag recall.... A Japanese company that probably designed a great product, but it's ruined by manufacturing in Mexico.

[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I disagree. To build a 3 series in China and for the EU to different specification means redesigning the entire car. Use different gauge sheet metal? means redesigned tooling and production engineering. Use thinner glass? redesigned tooling and re-sized A-pillars, door glass mechanisms. It is more expensive to redesign the car (parts) than just build to one world-wide spec. Minor derivatives are market-specific and cost effective to implement, but the major design of the car is designed and built to a world-wide specification.

Ride in one in Beijing and it's pretty clear.

But this NYT article makes it pretty clear that Brilliance (who makes the BMW's in China under license) isn't making the same car that's coming out of EU and US factories:

"FRANKFURT — The German automaker BMW said Wednesday that it would significantly expand its operations in the fast-growing Chinese market, doubling the number of models it produces there and extending its alliance with a local partner, Brilliance China Automotive Holdings.

BMW said it would increase the number of models it produces in China to six from three, including a new, lower-price model positioned below the company’s flagship 3 Series and designed specifically for China. And during the next two years, BMW will increase capacity at two Chinese factories, both in the northeastern city of Shenyang, to 400,000 vehicles per year, from 300,000.

While lucrative, China is also a highly competitive market, with dozens of domestic brands, pushing automakers like BMW to more closely tailor their products to local demands rather than simply copying cars designed for Europe and the United States."

This thread is way past hijacked now. :/

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

Ride in one in Beijing and it's pretty clear.

But this NYT article makes it pretty clear that Brilliance (who makes the BMW's in China under license) isn't making the same car that's coming out of EU and US factories:

"FRANKFURT — The German automaker BMW said Wednesday that it would significantly expand its operations in the fast-growing Chinese market, doubling the number of models it produces there and extending its alliance with a local partner, Brilliance China Automotive Holdings.

BMW said it would increase the number of models it produces in China to six from three, including a new, lower-price model positioned below the company’s flagship 3 Series and designed specifically for China. And during the next two years, BMW will increase capacity at two Chinese factories, both in the northeastern city of Shenyang, to 400,000 vehicles per year, from 300,000.

While lucrative, China is also a highly competitive market, with dozens of domestic brands, pushing automakers like BMW to more closely tailor their products to local demands rather than simply copying cars designed for Europe and the United States."

This thread is way past hijacked now. :/

Where in that article does it indicate the Chinese market BMWs are built to a different quality standard? Not sure the term "flagship model" applies to the 3-series... 7-series is BMW's "Flagship". And BMW is introducing a "lower priced" 1-series model below the 3-series for world sales. It's front drive and based off the Mini.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by John 070

I agree, it could be that China has sub 320i models, and that the same model could have different features, obviously xenons, leds, halogens, etc., but unlikely door panels, oem glass, etc.

But I can honestly say the 328i F30 feels like lesser of a car than my E92...so in that case yes maybe some stuff is cheapified when compared to a 335i E92.

BMW has always sold high-end market (i.e. lots of standard content) versions of it's cars in the US as compared to Europe. But the base quality attributes of the cars is the same between them. The vehicle content and market tolerance of price is the variable in the sales price of the same car sold in different countries.

[John 070]

what one could do is to use one of them fancy Brother label makers with the laminated TZe tape. Print "Saint Gobain Sekurit" and just stick it on your windshield, 6 windows (assuming sedan), and rear glass, and totally cover Fuyao. This is the only way that I think you can restore the lost torque and prestige....

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW has always sold high-end market (i.e. lots of standard content) versions of it's cars in the US as compared to Europe. But the base quality attributes of the cars is the same between them. The vehicle content and market tolerance of price is the variable in the sales price of the same car sold in different countries.

Actually, even as a kid, I thought about this...say you buy a base 320i for 35k. You likely are getting many of the underpinnings of a 340i that costs 60k. Kind of like when you buy a less expensive/smaller home in a nice neighborhood.

[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Where in that article does it indicate the Chinese market BMWs are built to a different quality standard? Not sure the term "flagship model" applies to the 3-series... 7-series is BMW's "Flagship". And BMW is introducing a "lower priced" 1-series model below the 3-series for world sales. It's front drive and based off the Mini.

I've actually ridden in a Chinese built BMW in China. I'm not making this shit up. They are not made by BMW, they are made by a company jointly owned by BMW, the Chinese govt. & Brilliance. The joint venture is called BMW Brilliance Automotive, Ltd., China.

Here's an article about one of the non-BMW Brilliance cars tested 3 years after they built the first Brilliance BMW's, and it wasn't good news.

Here's a bit more on this as well, and note the special attention paid to the fact that they are basing Chinese models on older models to keep from leaking current tech to Chinese companies known for stealing foreign tech.

This thread is way off topic at this point.

[sunny]

I highly recommend Mercury insurance.
they approved original front windshield for my car.
but you don't want the original windshield because they don't have tint on them.
aftermarket windshield has tint on them so I went with aftermarket windshield.

Originally Posted by MrSteak

$3,200/year (for 8 years!) w/ glass.... and they won't cover an OEM windshield replacement.

Also, a while back my water pump died, and although the policy says they'll tow a car up to 100 miles, they wouldn't tow my car 8 miles to my local shop (because there was a BMW dealer 5 miles away).

[MrSteak]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

I've actually ridden in a Chinese built BMW in China. I'm not making this shit up. They are not made by BMW, they are made by a company jointly owned by BMW, the Chinese govt. & Brilliance. The joint venture is called BMW Brilliance Automotive, Ltd., China.

Here's an article about one of the non-BMW Brilliance cars tested 3 years after they built the first Brilliance BMW's, and it wasn't good news.

Here's a bit more on this as well, and note the special attention paid to the fact that they are basing Chinese models on older models to keep from leaking current tech to Chinese companies known for stealing foreign tech.

This thread is way off topic at this point.

EXACTLY!

Like I've been saying all along. It's laughable how naive people are to believe that Chinese built BMW's are remotely as well manufactured as those in Germany...... Let alone "the same".

Still not THAT off topic. It went from Abraham Lincoln's all glass is created equal, to all BMW's are created equal, when in fact neither is true.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

I've actually ridden in a Chinese built BMW in China. I'm not making this shit up. They are not made by BMW, they are made by a company jointly owned by BMW, the Chinese govt. & Brilliance. The joint venture is called BMW Brilliance Automotive, Ltd., China.

Here's an article about one of the non-BMW Brilliance cars tested 3 years after they built the first Brilliance BMW's, and it wasn't good news.

Here's a bit more on this as well, and note the special attention paid to the fact that they are basing Chinese models on older models to keep from leaking current tech to Chinese companies known for stealing foreign tech.

This thread is way off topic at this point.

So one article said BMW had no involvement with production of the car that failed the crash testing. The other article stated BMW is forced to build cars in China using a Chinese manufacturer due to tax regulations, but somehow you think that this disproves my statements that BMW doesn't build its cars built by BMW in a BMW corporate factory to two different specifications... LOL.

Neither car you point to is built by BMW. Both are built by Brilliance of China.

[NiNeTyOne]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So one article said BMW had no involvement with production of the car that failed the crash testing. The other article stated BMW is forced to build cars in China using a Chinese manufacturer due to tax regulations, but somehow you think that this disproves my statements that BMW doesn't build its cars built by BMW in a BMW corporate factory to two different specifications... LOL.

Neither car you point to is built by BMW. Both are built by Brilliance of China.

#facepalm

BMW does not MAKE cars in China. They are partners in a concern that manufactures on their behalf, even if BMW has a major stake in it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NiNeTyOne

#facepalm

BMW does not MAKE cars in China. They are partners in a concern that manufactures on their behalf, even if BMW has a major stake in it.

Exactly.

[Peilor]

This is quite an old thread but has been so useful to read. Thanks everyone for sharing their experience. I've just has my X5 2012 windshield cracked due to a snowstorm in Tahoe, California. Spoke to Geico and as many have already explained here, I asked not to go through Safelite. So, I'm wondering if someone knows of any reliable shop I could go to in the Bay area / San Francisco that'd be using good quality labor.

Geico quoted me $806 reimbursement for the glass and $40/h labor. Do you think that's fair?

I'm planning on getting a quote from the dealer where it was serviced just for reference.

Best