[minn19]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

That is what Ford "claims" but has that ever been substantiated? The GT3 also pulls 1.11g whereas the 350R is less at 1.09 despite wearing wider tires. I also doubt the ford has more stability in high speed corners. Id have to see a track time with cornering speeds compared but again I'd bet In favor of the GT3. How much time do you have on track with a GT3? It's not rear grip limited at all.
I don't see any direct comparison where I can see cornering speeds but if the Ford was so much better and in fact produced so much more downforce I would think the N'Ring time wouldn't be a whopping 7 seconds off the pace of a GT3. I don't know what I don't know but I find much of that hard to believe without data and proof.

And the 350R is a whopping 7-8 seconds faster than a GT4 on the ring. I find almost all track times to meaningless for the most part, but the 'Ring ones have to be about the most meaningless to average and even intermediate drivers. I have no idea how a GT3 handles as I've never been near one. But, realistically for a lot more money (probably double) the GT3 better be much better and by a clear margin. Not sure if that is the case for average Joes. For pros yes, I can see the GT3 beating the GT350R regularly. By how much on regular tracks, probably not a ton.

As for the GT4 vs GT350R, unless you have to have PDK and the Porsche name/luxury, I would think you could get a GT350R for thousands less and it is more capable on the track. But, again I agree, for average Joes a PDK GT4 would probably be a little bit easier to put down fast lap times. But, the power band on the GT350R is very big and usable so you are not shifting all the time unless on a very tight track. On paper the R is much more capable as well in objective performance metrics.

As for the overall experience, that is up to the individual and their preffered tastes in a car.

Edit: So if you are using both a GT4 and a GT350R purely for track fun and both are 100k. I'd say the GT350R is worth a 100k if the GT4 is IMO. Again, that is up to the individual.

Edit #2; Forgot the GT4 is manual only so no advantage there on the track.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It makes me kinda sad to read that. sort of like when dct removed need for heel/toe downshift. I should improve my coding. Fast laps in future are gonna be based on coding skills not driving skills at this rate.

But more importantly I'm sad because mdm sucks and you definitely lose pace for using it. booo bmw for having worse TC than ford or gm

I would also say (after having both an M4 and regular a GT350 now) that the GT350 is much more stable with traction control off as well. The M4 gets into the corner better, but the GT350 doesn't dance as much in the corner. It also definitely gets out of it better as in you can put the power down sooner and smoother. Especially for the average track guy such as myself.

[arsenalrocks]

I have the regular GT350, on the back straight mosport with instructor besides me the GT4 can be passed easily. 2 passengers are almost 400lbs, 400lbs of weight on a 3000lb GT4 is a lot compares to 400lbs of weight on a 3780lb GT350.

in the corner GT4 is faster for sure, but he is on cup 2s, I am on PSS. on the same tires I am not sure GT4 is even faster than 350.

bottom line is the GT350R on CF wheels, is a full step above GT4, and specially true on big tracks where HP matters more.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Possibly?

I was at an HPDE at mosport recently and the GT4 and 991 GT3 were close (depending on driver). I thought GT350R was roughly equivalent to a GT3, so I'm not 100% sure how GT350R vs. GT4 would go down. My GUESS is that for average joes it will be close

Not trying to put down the GT350R, just not how I'd spend my money

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

That is what Ford "claims" but has that ever been substantiated? The GT3 also pulls 1.11g whereas the 350R is less at 1.09 despite wearing wider tires. I also doubt the ford has more stability in high speed corners. Id have to see a track time with cornering speeds compared but again I'd bet In favor of the GT3. How much time do you have on track with a GT3? It's not rear grip limited at all.
I don't see any direct comparison where I can see cornering speeds but if the Ford was so much better and in fact produced so much more downforce I would think the N'Ring time wouldn't be a whopping 7 seconds off the pace of a GT3. I don't know what I don't know but I find much of that hard to believe without data and proof.

I still find skidpad cornering Gs somewhat useless as well. The GT350R is also heavier than the GT3.

Ive raced a 997 GT3 Cup, 991 GT3 (911 America's) have a few track days in a 997 GT3, a few in a 997.2 GT3, and TONS of days and laps in 991 GT3 and GT350/Rs.

Yes the 991 GT3 is aero loose and rear grip limited in high speed transitions, especially compared to the 350R.

There are no official GT350R ring laptimes. Just internet heresay.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by arsenalrocks

I have the regular GT350, on the back straight mosport with instructor besides me the GT4 can be passed easily. 2 passengers are almost 400lbs, 400lbs of weight on a 3000lb GT4 is a lot compares to 400lbs of weight on a 3780lb GT350.

in the corner GT4 is faster for sure, but he is on cup 2s, I am on PSS. on the same tires I am not sure GT4 is even faster than 350.

bottom line is the GT350R on CF wheels, is a full step above GT4, and specially true on big tracks where HP matters more.

Sounds like a lot of fun! What times appx were you running?

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Billj747

I still find skidpad cornering Gs somewhat useless as well. The GT350R is also heavier than the GT3.

Ive raced a 997 GT3 Cup, 991 GT3 (911 America's) have a few track days in a 997 GT3, a few in a 997.2 GT3, and TONS of days and laps in 991 GT3 and GT350/Rs.

Yes the 991 GT3 is aero loose and rear grip limited in high speed transitions, especially compared to the 350R.

There are no official GT350R ring laptimes. Just internet heresay.

Interesting you say that because I have never felt that way in a GT3, and way say the RS is even more so planted.
I've not been in a 350R so I have no basis there but I still find it hard to believe without having experienced it nor have a read anything that would suggest it has better grip than a standard GT3 given the times and g figures I've seen.
I'm sure only time will tell when they are in some kind of track car comparison.

Btw, I also feel like it's heresay when ford claims it has twice the downforce of a GT3 and as fast as "a GT3" but never specify which model and I'm sure that's done on purpose. As I said, there should be clear indicators once they are put on the same track at the same day. My guess, it's well off the pace of a GT3. I'd even bet a 991.2S is probably faster on most tracks than the 350R on like tires too.

Maybe EVO will even do some of their wind tunnel testing to show us what cars really have in terms of downforce and lift at the axles.

[RM7]

As we move further in the future, it gets harder and harder for Porsche to keep their rear engine layout competitive. They are cool cars for sure, but it takes ever increasing amounts of $$ and engineering to stay ahead or equal to superior layouts.

[nholmes]

It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. On the surface, it's basic supply and demand economics.

I'm sure some of this is mostly being driven by the aging collectors that are sitting on a lot of money and have nothing to spend it on. They already own a pristine classic Shelby (or two) and would be thrilled to get one of the new ones (or one for their son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter/etc).

In all honesty, after having ridden and seen a GT350 with the Track Pack, the R version is kinda overpriced and will mostly appeal to collectors. You can get a GT350 with the Track Pack and similar aftermarket mods for far less that will perform just as well.

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Saw one in person the other day for the first time. Beautiful, well performing car, but $100K for a Mustang just doesn't settle well with me.

[inTgr8r]

Just wait until they come out with a GT500 and the ass will fall out of these numbers.

[nholmes]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Just wait until they come out with a GT500 and the ass will fall out of these numbers.

Perfect.

Guess I'll be picking up a gently used GT350 in five years for cheap.

[larryn]

Some places are just nuts ($367k GT350R): http://www.marysvilleford.com/new-ca...TP8JZ7G5525600

I find it quite amusing that you get a pop-up of a $100 off voucher. $300k markup!

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by larryn

Some places are just nuts ($367k GT350R): http://www.marysvilleford.com/new-ca...TP8JZ7G5525600

I find it quite amusing that you get a pop-up of a $100 off voucher. $300k markup!

The owners can dream right?

[chillindrdude]

read today on CNN Finance that Ford sales and forecast are down.

i think they should attempt to double their production numbers for the GT350. GT350R, and Focus RS. if i was corporate, i'd also crackdown on markup gouging to prevent prospective buyers from moving on to other performance alternatives...

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

As we move further in the future, it gets harder and harder for Porsche to keep their rear engine layout competitive. They are cool cars for sure, but it takes ever increasing amounts of $$ and engineering to stay ahead or equal to superior layouts.

Can you elaborate on why you think that?

GT3s sell out as quick as Porsche can take the orders and the RS even faster with demand so high they're still selling for well over Msrp. Porsche as a brand is always going to be able to sell them for more money because the perform and handle and provide a driving experience second to none. I also think when you look at the rear layout in pro racing, it proves it is a great layout.
As you likely know, the layout moves more towards a mid engined platform and likely one day will be, though it won't be called such.
And just wait, the new GT2 RS is going to be my and large unbeatable while maintaining that "layout".
Ideally, I do agree Porsche knows that a mod engined car could be made to be better. I mean they do mid engine as good if not better than anyone. I think this will be seen in the upcoming 960 but that will be a car in the price range of the 488 and 675.

[RM7]

Porsche knows that for the max performance, use a mid engine. 918.

[scoobysaurus]

I wouldn't spend $100k on a Mustang the same way I wouldn't spend $100k on a BMW. Above $100k you get the high end Mercs and Porsches that start where BMW's range ends. Rather have a $110-120k S500/SL500 that looks like a $230k S65/SL65 than a $110-120k M6 that looks like a <$80k 640 lol.

Oh and since someone asked the question of what American car would you choose for over $100k, my answer is the Viper (GTC, GTS, TA, ACR) and from my own experience the interior quality seems to be on par with my 6 series with leather interior. Except for the Ford GT I doubt any other American car comes close to the Gen5 Viper in terms of uniqueness combined with driving pleasure and sheer performance. Worth every penny. The GT350 is a great car with a phenomenal engine for under $60k and I wouldn't even think about the "R" at whatever price unless I plan on taking it to the track regularly the same way I didn't go for a TA or ACR when booking my Viper.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I can't get myself to spend $60k on a "regular" GT350...

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I can't get myself to spend $60k on a "regular" GT350...

same could be said for bmw.

[DREW@SUPREMEPOWER]

I have seen them on Ebay for over 100k. Mustang for over 100k...idk

[trustbran]

Simple...No..

-Brandon

[mrkoven]

100k Ford... lolol