[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by JuniorB

I know they don't,but if you wanted a stronger block without the hassle,you could sleeves it. Since Hass is reading this also,I need to ask a question. My project is going to be putting the n54 in my car inplace of then52.. I bought a whole car for this. The donor car is a 08 535xi,its been rolled,but the drivetrain is intact,im only taking the motor and related electronics. Do i have to change my vin to the 08 and use that,use a 335 07 EC,or can my n52 EC be reprogrammed? Thank you for your experience on this.

As Hass explained many times in this very thread, you won't get the N52 DME to run an N54. MSV70 doesn't have the hardware to deal with direct injection.

You would have to use the MSD80 from the donor car. I don't think you'd have to change VINs or anything, but you'd have to copy the ISN from the DME onto your CAS modul.

[JuniorB]

My apologies,I should have reread the thread,👍

[hassmaschine]

Theres no way to copy the ISN on MSV80 AFAIK (nobody has BDM / boot mode on Siemens tricore that i know of). you need to use the matching DME, CAS and key from the donor vehicle.

I can't help but think you would be better off just selling and getting a 535i.. There's way more involved than swapping the engines.

[JuniorB]

That's a fact! I could sell my car,but it's modded and people seem to shun away from that,this all new turbo for the n52 Bpc is working on is going to be expensive,ans the super charger has its own issue. I'm an excellent wrench since I do it for a living,so I figured I do the swap. I know the whole sell than swap saying. It's an 07,still in awesome shape. I've been reading about this for a long time,a lot of parts interchange,but I just read that the blocks have different bolt patterns? The donor car is xi, mine is not.

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Theres no way to copy the ISN on MSV80 AFAIK (nobody has BDM / boot mode on Siemens tricore that i know of). you need to use the matching DME, CAS and key from the donor vehicle.

I can't help but think you would be better off just selling and getting a 535i.. There's way more involved than swapping the engines.

I've read of people taking the ISN from the MSV/D80 and copying it to the CAS module rather than the other way around (since the MS*80 has it in a OTP area).

Or since he has the whole donor car, he could probably just dump the ISN from that CAS and burn it onto his original one without worrying about key issues.

[JuniorB]

I thought it would be easier with the whole car,I originally bought a n54 cause it has so many power options. This tread had me thinking if it was possible for a head swap,I'm running nos now,and looking for the best way to get more power over selling. With all the treads that you read,it's hard to know what direction to go in.

[Hobbs64]

Not to just jump in, but what do you really gain by direct injection? I understand wanting to drop the entire N54 engine into you car, and then tune and treat the car like a N54, but what do you really gain in options? You don't have the hardware, or software for that engine. I think you can get more power out of the N52/n54 set up I'm proposing. Don has a very nice (powerful) DIY turbo set up. Are you shooting for more than 500HP? What are you looking for for torque numbers?

The N52 head flows better than any of the I6 BMW heads sans the S54. The S54 runs 35/30 valves. The N52 run 33+/28+ valves with great port and runner design. The N54/55 can't compare to those numbers.

I would like to see you do the entire swap. I was originally headed in the same direction. I came to the conclusion that it was too much work for the reward, and I am afraid of the CAS en ecu swap. I came to the conclusion that I wanted to keep my ecu and CAS if at all possible, while looking for something between the E46 M3 and the 335 performance. If there is an easier way to get there, I'm all ears!

[hassmaschine]

you get a bit more efficiency, basically. slightly more power, but not a lot (N53 makes what, 10hp more than highest output N52?). It's mostly for fuel economy and emissions. For that reason, you won't see a lot of port injection engines in the future.

It has drawbacks too, like the requirements of the high pressure fuel system, injectors that need to be coded to the car (and have a much higher failure rate than port injectors) , and the requirement to decarbonize the intake valves because they are no longer cleaned by the fuel spray.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you get a bit more efficiency, basically. slightly more power, but not a lot (N53 makes what, 10hp more than highest output N52?). It's mostly for fuel economy and emissions. For that reason, you won't see a lot of port injection engines in the future.

It has drawbacks too, like the requirements of the high pressure fuel system, injectors that need to be coded to the car (and have a much higher failure rate than port injectors) , and the requirement to decarbonize the intake valves because they are no longer cleaned by the fuel spray.

I thought the de-carbonizing was only an issue with Direct injection only, Some manufactures use both direct and port inject on the same motor and they don't have these issues.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I thought the de-carbonizing was only an issue with Direct injection only, Some manufactures use both direct and port inject on the same motor and they don't have these issues.

And some engines run specific injector timing/valve events to avoid the issue, plus utilizing a better egr system. The N55 is an example, and supposedly so is Cadillac's 3.6

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you get a bit more efficiency, basically. slightly more power, but not a lot (N53 makes what, 10hp more than highest output N52?). It's mostly for fuel economy and emissions. For that reason, you won't see a lot of port injection engines in the future.

It has drawbacks too, like the requirements of the high pressure fuel system, injectors that need to be coded to the car (and have a much higher failure rate than port injectors) , and the requirement to decarbonize the intake valves because they are no longer cleaned by the fuel spray.

In the case of turbo motors, you can also safely run higher compression with DI since you can inject the fuel right before spark. And you can also run stoich at WOT more safely.

[hassmaschine]

yeah but neither of those are huge performance benefits - they mainly affect emissions and fuel economy. Even a higher compression ratio doesn't make as much of a power difference as people think it does.

[CobraMarty]

1 point compression increase will on average increase power 3%.

But you need the octane to prevent detonation at that higher CR and need to avoid timing retard with knock as this will lose more power than that 3% increase due to the higher CR..

[JuniorB]

Honestly its acrapshooter.The 54 makes the power with all the related high cost of maintaining, the 52 is reliable,but tow out. Since I have nitrous already, ill see whit she can top out at. A soiled 400rwhp is perfect.

[JuniorB]

Sorry, the 52 is tapped out.

[JuniorB]

How you make out with your findings? I wee reading a post about this swap,the 52 head won't bolt up as Bpc had mention. It seems BMW done treakw so nothing goes together with all three n motors. My question is about what are you running for a trans? The 07 335 autos the same as the 08? Will the 52 trans bolt to 08 54? Thank you,

[Hobbs64]

I'm waiting for parts to arrive. I know there will be a couple of issues. The N52 runs a vacuum pump where the HPFP is located on the N54. I also expect a couple of small jacket alignment issues on the head. Other than these issues I don't expect more. I'm prepared to do a little machine work on my project.

As I explained before, I don't think pistons will be an issue. The pistons in the N54 are not domed, they are flat tops and the performance pistons CP sells are dished. I will have to check the clearance on the valve pocket, but the deck height will remain the same as a stock N54.

As for the transmission, I run a manual. Don has addressed my issue. The trans from a 54 will bolt up to a 52 with some minor tweaking. I have no idea regarding the auto trans. I am also awd, so my attention has been focused there. With the above in mind, I think you will have the same issue with the auto trans. Your top two bolt holes will be slightly off. If you test this fit issue, please let us know.

[JuniorB]

I read when one guy had to massage his n52 when he went manual,I don't know about the auto,I thought both the 07, and 08 were the same trans,but went lci,and different dme. Do the 52 and 52 share the same rods? The n52 pistons could be used.

[Hobbs64]

Junior,

There is no change in transmission in pre v. post LCI cars. I believe that in changing auto transmissions you will have to massage to two uppermost bolt holes. If the manual can ne made to fit, so can the auto!

The rods length is the same in the N52 as the N54, but the rods are not interchangeable. I thought about using the N52 pistons but the stroke and bore are not not the same. Once you corrected the bore issue, you would run into deck issues. The forged piston for the M54 might work as the combustion chamber configuration is close to the N52 and the block dimensions is identical to the N54, but the rod length is different. CP's dished pistons seem to be my answer. The valve reliefs are big enough to clear the N52 valves, but the piston is a dish, not a dome. I have intentions to go FI at some point.

[hassmaschine]

it's actually the pin height on the N52 that is different from the N54. The rods are the same length (and actually, you could interchange the rods, unless the pins are different diameter). The N54 has a very slightly longer stroke, so with the same deck height they changed the pin location on the pistons.

Also, I don't think N54 pistons are "forged". Billet pistons on a mass produced engine? The cost would be astronomical.. Not to mention there are drawbacks to forged pistons and compromises to be made (things like cold piston slap). They are almost certainly cast, but you have to understand, modern cast pistons are of extremely high quality. The difference in N52 and N54 pistons are the N54 will be thicker and heavier to deal with boost.

Why not just get custom pistons? Instead of off the shelf? The cost will be about the same, and you can tailor it to the N52 combustion chamber.

[Hobbs64]

Hass,

All of your points are valid. I don't think big end rod journal diameter is the same between N52 and N54. I know the rod length is the same so is the small end. N52 rods are cracked metal but the bolts are 8mm rather than 9mm on the N54.

Pistons on the N54 are forged Mahl units. They are not great pistons, but they are infact forged units. I like Cp and Ross personally. J&E and Diamond are also fine. I probably will go straight custom pistons. I like using standardized items whenever possible. The fact that they have been tried and used successfully makes things easier. There is nothing like putting 30k in parts and machine work into a motor only to collapse a piston skirt 100 miles into break-in. That is the kind of stuff that happens when you're trying the new and untested, despite having really good people involved. LOL...Trust me, I've been down that road before...

Back to the task at hand, my shortblock has arrived. I'll tear things down this weekend, check fit and get it to machine next week.

[hassmaschine]

They are the same on the big end. Look up part numbers for bearings - they're all the same. This also means you can use VAC coated N54 bearings on an N52.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...35&series=E90N

Mainly the N52 rods are smaller/lighter and use smaller cap bolts.