[Lups]

Originally Posted by SCHMOUPE

Hmmm having lived through a similar situation, I'd say no. Bought my Z4M fresh out of college at 23 for 29K. I was living at home at the time and was making 60K and had no student loans.

Now fast forward 7 years and triple the salary and add in a mortgage and a car payment on a beater and cost of "life", I don't dare looking at a new car or anything that costs more than 40k. I think I would have to double my salary to be ok to spend 70-80 on a car.

I get it. I was once 23 and had no cares in the world and could spend half of my income on a car but priorities change and "life" happens.

My advice to OP, that is too much car for you. Go for something cheaper ~30-35K.

This was a very good post and the op should think about this and I honestly agree with you but.

Currently it is midnight here and first freezing night also has landed my fair city. It isn't first snow yet for the year yet but it is even more dangerous, black ice.

I have kids, dogs, loans, projects, charities I fund but right now I'm walking out from my front door just to go hunt down the first ice, next weekend we'll do the same with show (we hope).

When I was 23 I took up the first snow alone and in a beater. Tonight we'll go out in a thing that's not even rally legal and we will be going slower than anyone.

You ask why, we absolutely tell you that we do this to remember why to stay vigilant and our spouses make us go to the lot near a hospital.

The truth is, we think we are 23 and for one night we keep safe and act like teenagers with wallets.

I don't see a reason why a 23 year old should buy an M4/m6. The fun should come from challenging yourself and from cheap failures at that age.

Edit: Vetoed by spouses. All of us stay at home.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Please stop commenting on this thread - thank you.



I do have one yes. Sold a red snow camo box logo yesterday for $450, bought for $265.

I can't. I've been here since 2009 and you just signed up to ask advice, so now you're going to get it. Annual income is meaningless in a car discussion.

I've already schooled you in finance, now let me give you another lesson: Not everyone is going to tell you what you want to hear. You're in the real world now.

BTW, your salary is even lower in real earnings because of your location. You can't afford this car. I doubt you can even afford the apartment you're currently renting. You clearly couldn't afford college, but at least that was an investment in your future. Pay that off first and then come back and ask our opinion about the car. I'm helping you as you asked.

You want me to stop posting? Delete the thread and make a new one asking for what you want. Say, "I'm getting an M4/M6 tell me how great I am."

[yourcakeisready]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

I can't. I've been here since 2009 and you just signed up to ask advice, so now you're going to get it. Annual income is meaningless in a car discussion.

I've already schooled you in finance, now let me give you another lesson: Not everyone is going to tell you what you want to hear. You're in the real world now.

BTW, your salary is even lower in real earnings because of your location. You can't afford this car. I doubt you can even afford the apartment you're currently renting. You clearly couldn't afford college, but at least that was an investment in your future. Pay that off first and then come back and ask our opinion about the car. I'm helping you as you asked.

You want me to stop posting? Delete the thread and make a new one asking for what you want. Say, "I'm getting an M4/M6 tell me how great I am."

Schooled me in finance by stating.... what exactly? That I do not want to live to the 'norms' of society that keep many people from doing what they actually want to do?


It's funny, because you were getting to me at first. But the mere fact that you haven't even entirely read my first post by stating "I can't afford the rent in my apartment I'm living in". Did you completely forget to read my first post?

I couldn't afford college? Who the fuck can pay for college outright unless you're a trust-fund baby or went to a state school or received a full ride? Entertain me, I'll wait

[bimmette]

I worked 3 jobs, paid for university, never had a student loan and bought a house at 22. I was taught that I can only afford a car if I can pay for it in cash and I still follow this. (I've been bashed on this forum for saying that, but I just want to tell you that it's not impossible.)

[yourcakeisready]

Originally Posted by bimmette

I worked 3 jobs, paid for university, never had a student loan and bought a house at 22. I was taught that I can only afford a car if I can pay for it in cash and I still follow this. (I've been bashed on this forum for saying that, but I just want to tell you that it's not impossible.)

Why? That's impressive - I can get a house 'technically' if I wanted too, but it would be in the 350-400 range. I don't want a house now, nor could I afford one on a mortgage with student loans.

I really wanted to landlord and rent it out, or airbnb it, but it's inconsistent and time consuming. I do eventually want to do real estate and own a bunch of property and rent everything out, but I don't think I can right now. Next best thing is to just purchase a car that'll make me happy for a few years, (4-5 to pay off, and will hopefully pay off my student loans by that same timeframe assuming I continue with around 1.5-2k a month. My parents also contribute $500 a month to the loans I believe to help.

[DickBlisken]

Originally Posted by bimmette

I worked 3 jobs, paid for university, never had a student loan and bought a house at 22. I was taught that I can only afford a car if I can pay for it in cash and I still follow this. (I've been bashed on this forum for saying that, but I just want to tell you that it's not impossible.)

100%. Same boat. And that's saying something, in Vancouver lol.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Schooled me in finance by stating.... what exactly? That I do not want to live to the 'norms' of society that keep many people from doing what they actually want to do?


It's funny, because you were getting to me at first. But the mere fact that you haven't even entirely read my first post by stating "I can't afford the rent in my apartment I'm living in". Did you completely forget to read my first post?

I couldn't afford college? Who the fuck can pay for college outright unless you're a trust-fund baby or went to a state school or received a full ride? Entertain me, I'll wait

I cant say his advice, and the advice of others is bad, as it is generally sound financial advice to get most/all your debt cleared up and have a stable income/housing before jumping into an expensive car, but I also just had a guy i worked with at the same age i am have a heart attack, so Im in a you only live once phase for lack of a better term.

If you feel you will be able to make it work, then do it. If you are willing to sacrifice on other things if money gets tight a month here and there, then do it. If you dont want to sacrifice in other areas of your life, then probably not a good idea to stretch yourself thin right now.

[BimmerRookie]

OP: You're over reaching your means. In all honesty, you can do it, but it's so darn stupid. You have no idea how much money you're going to waste. There are so many people in this thread that were in your shoes at your age and giving you the same advice.

Given your responses, I think you've already made up your mind and you came here to look for support. What you haven't realized is that BimmerPost is the premier source for financial advice!

I'll put in my two cents....I too am fresh from college and make well over 120k pre tax (not bragging, just trying to prove a point) with 10k annual bonuses every year (knock on wood for the future). After maxing out HSA & 401K, and paying tax, I still walk home with plenty in the account. Like any other excited young grad, I wanted to buy a new (to me) car. First purchase to drown the signing bonus? M3. It wasn't new, but it still came with a price tag. I took a loan on it with decent payments, because I can manage it.

The point is that I can surely pay for my M3, but would I mind if I pocketed some extra cash and distributed my money elsewhere? I wish I would have waited to buy until I had a little more in my rainy day fund. What everyone above says about how 35k in savings is nothing, is absolutely true.

You live and you learn OP.

[lens]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Why? That's impressive - I can get a house 'technically' if I wanted too, but it would be in the 350-400 range. I don't want a house now, nor could I afford one on a mortgage with student loans.

I really wanted to landlord and rent it out, or airbnb it, but it's inconsistent and time consuming. I do eventually want to do real estate and own a bunch of property and rent everything out, but I don't think I can right now. Next best thing is to just purchase a car that'll make me happy for a few years, (4-5 to pay off, and will hopefully pay off my student loans by that same timeframe assuming I continue with around 1.5-2k a month. My parents also contribute $500 a month to the loans I believe to help.

It also depends on how hardcore of a car enthusiast you are as well. I personally have no problem spending that much on a car that will always put a smile on my face if I can afford the car with money left over per month.

Those who say wait and invest in houses blah blah, well, it's a long time. You don't have to get a house now, you don't have to keep living your life saving all your money for the future. Save some. Do what makes you happy, don't restrict yourself. I've been paying all my stuff for the past two years, saving 1k a month minimum without any problems.

[EricsE92]

Originally Posted by chaungo

It also depends on how hardcore of a car enthusiast you are as well. I personally have no problem spending that much on a car that will always put a smile on my face if I can afford the car with money left over per month.

Those who say wait and invest in houses blah blah, well, it's a long time. You don't have to get a house now, you don't have to keep living your life saving all your money for the future. Save some. Do what makes you happy, don't restrict yourself. I've been paying all my stuff for the past two years, saving 1k a month minimum without any problems.

EXACTLY! I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing to buy either of the said cars for that price point, but at 23 do you really know where you would like to own a home? Establish a family, hell even keep a long term career? NO, the only investment that takes is time and none of us are guaranteed that. Why live as if your twice your age if it's not promised. Some contributions to this thread want you to live as IF you have a mortgage (which isn't an always guaranteed investment) 3 children and a wife. THATS RIDICULOUS. Have fun but be smart about it, make sure you can be responsible, have a savings account and enjoy your youth, everyday it's becoming part of your past.

[NemesisX]

Being able to physically buy a car and being able to "afford" a car are two very different things.

My parents could go out and write a check for a brand new Bugatti Veyron right now if they wanted to. Such a purchase would not affect their standard of living either given that they live very frugally. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean they can afford it. It would be a colossally stupid purchase. The median Bugatti owner is worth north of $30M.

You asked about median numbers. There's some decent data about this for various car brands and car makes, and the M6 is one of them. The median M6 owner makes a little north of $300,000/year. Again, 50% make more and 50% make less (by definition of median), so it's up to you.

The median Porsche 911 owner makes $380,000/year. The average (not median) Ferrari owner makes $570,000/year (which, personally, sounded low to me but the number was from a fairly reputable car magazine), is predominantly male in his 50s, and has a liquid net worth just north of $5M.

Interestingly, the median Prius owner makes $90,000/year. At $90,000/year I'd personally spend no more than $30,000 on a car (new or used).

[yourcakeisready]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Being able to physically buy a car and being able to "afford" a car are two very different things.

My parents could go out and write a check for a brand new Bugatti Veyron right now if they wanted to. Such a purchase would not affect their standard of living either given that they live very frugally. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean they can afford it. It would be a colossally stupid purchase. The median Bugatti owner is worth north of $30M.

You asked about median numbers. There's some decent data about this for various car brands and car makes, and the M6 is one of them. The median M6 owner makes a little north of $300,000/year. Again, 50% make more and 50% make less (by definition of median), so it's up to you.

The median Porsche 911 owner makes $380,000/year. The average (not median) Ferrari owner makes $570,000/year (which, personally, sounded low to me but the number was from a fairly reputable car magazine), is predominantly male in his 50s, and has a liquid net worth just north of $5M.

Interestingly, the median Prius owner makes $90,000/year. At $90,000/year I'd personally spend no more than $30,000 on a car (new or used).

30k as in mortgage or 30k as in sticker price?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

I posted this same topic on personal finance forums and was absolutely slammed, (obviously - not sure what I was expecting), so I'm posting here because I feel like other people have been/are in my shoes. Also would like to know how much people generally make and how much they are financing for these cars.

Everyone's situation is different. Back when I was still making what you are currently making ($70k), I was driving a CPO Audi A4 I got for $35k, which is considerably cheaper than a new M3. Back when I was only making $90k I got a CPO Audi S4 for $45k. The difference being I had a condo at the time. So, is it possible to afford an M4 making only $90k? Sure! But also consider this: Just because you are selling your current car for $11k doesn't mean that it makes your M4 suddenly more affordable by $11k. That $11k you are getting for your current car is a net LOSS. You paid more for that car than you are selling... it's depreciated. You're just getting some of it back. So yeah, it helps, but you're still paying that $60k. You just made it in payments to that old car. Make sense?

One more thing... have you looked at CPO M4's?

Good luck with your purchase!

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Interestingly, the median Prius owner makes $90,000/year. At $90,000/year I'd personally spend no more than $30,000 on a car (new or used).

This is a good rule. I tended to stretch that a little! I wouldn't spend more than half my annual gross... but that's the "car guy" rule imho.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Yea - just a difficult decision for me financially. Plus, I don't want to invest a house before I pay off my student loans - to ME - that would be financially drowning myself, (IMO).

As an actual CPA, what you are saying is so gibberish it might actually be Klingon.

To get this straight, you have existing student debt, but you would willingly take on more debt for a rapidly depreciating asset (car) but would be uncomfortable taking on debt for an appreciating asset (house)...

To recap, you are more comfortable financing an asset that will be worth very little when you are done repaying the loan then you would be financing an asset that will statistically be worth more than you paid...

I just don't get it. Like I get that you want a car and seem to be able to cashflow it (although qualifying based on income around selling niche luxury hoodies at a 100% markup seems challenging) but how on earth do you figure that this makes sense?

Mark

Edit - also why do you keep calling it a mortgage? A mortgage is term debt secured by real estate. What you are talking about is a loan, ie other term debt secured by assets.

[yourcakeisready]

Originally Posted by lowside67

As an actual CPA, what you are saying is so gibberish it might actually be Klingon.

To get this straight, you have existing student debt, but you would willingly take on more debt for a rapidly depreciating asset (car) but would be uncomfortable taking on debt for an appreciating asset (house)...

To recap, you are more comfortable financing an asset that will be worth very little when you are done repaying the loan then you would be financing an asset that will statistically be worth more than you paid...

I just don't get it. Like I get that you want a car and seem to be able to cashflow it (although qualifying based on income around selling niche luxury hoodies at a 100% markup seems challenging) but how on earth do you figure that this makes sense?

Mark

Edit - also why do you keep calling it a mortgage? A mortgage is term debt secured by real estate. What you are talking about is a loan, ie other term debt secured by assets.

Mark - to answer your question as a whole - "yes". Taking on a 30+yr mortgage out on house is just not really "ideal" in my eyes in my position. Could I do it? Fucking sure I could. However - did you read any posts above? I'm 24, I don't want to tie down myself to one whole thing yet for 30+ years of my life just because it appreciates. Financially it makes sense I'm not arguing that. What fun is a house (I won't even purchase a house) it'll be more like a condo or apartment that I will rent out anyways. I don't know, I just don't really think I should be getting something that's even more expensive monthly that is not reasonable while I still have a student loans. I don't think I can afford that - whereas I can afford 650 a month for a car, pay off my loans more or less around the same time the M6 is paid off and THEN begin the housing search.

Sorry I'm not up to your CPA prowess and improperly defined the use of a mortgage

[PoorLurker]

Wow! You have a lot of nice Jordans and Yeezys to clear $50k if you sell it all.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Mark - to answer your question as a whole - "yes". Taking on a 30+yr mortgage out on house is just not really "ideal" in my eyes in my position. Could I do it? Fucking sure I could. However - did you read any posts above? I'm 24, I don't want to tie down myself to one whole thing yet for 30+ years of my life just because it appreciates.

Your first home purchase isn't necessarily a 30 year commitment. You can just hold onto it until it appreciates in a few years.

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Financially it makes sense I'm not arguing that. What fun is a house (I won't even purchase a house) it'll be more like a condo or apartment that I will rent out anyways. I don't know, I just don't really think I should be getting something that's even more expensive monthly that is not reasonable while I still have a student loans.

What's the interest rate on your student loan? They typically have a VERY low rate compared to other types of debt, so it's actually not a bad debt to have.

[PoorLurker]

Look at total cost of ownership.
Buy a Cayman GT4 for like $90k.

In 5 years if the market sucks, the car will be around $60k making a loss of $30k which is $6000 per year or $500 per month.

I do not foresee the market for the GT4 going much more below that given naturally aspirated and manual transmission.

Then, the longer you keep the car after it goes to $60K (worst case scenario) the cars value will only increase thereby cutting your losses even more.

If my wife let me buy a fancy car, this is what I would do. I may have to ride my bike to work for the next 10 years as I may lose my shorts speculating on cars, but...

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Why? That's impressive - I can get a house 'technically' if I wanted too, but it would be in the 350-400 range. I don't want a house now, nor could I afford one on a mortgage with student loans.

I really wanted to landlord and rent it out, or airbnb it, but it's inconsistent and time consuming. I do eventually want to do real estate and own a bunch of property and rent everything out, but I don't think I can right now. Next best thing is to just purchase a car that'll make me happy for a few years, (4-5 to pay off, and will hopefully pay off my student loans by that same timeframe assuming I continue with around 1.5-2k a month. My parents also contribute $500 a month to the loans I believe to help.

You CAN'T afford a house period, let alone in the 350-400 range, lol.

Thanks Bimmette....iPads....

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Schooled me in finance by stating.... what exactly? That I do not want to live to the 'norms' of society that keep many people from doing what they actually want to do?


It's funny, because you were getting to me at first. But the mere fact that you haven't even entirely read my first post by stating "I can't afford the rent in my apartment I'm living in". Did you completely forget to read my first post?

I couldn't afford college? Who the fuck can pay for college outright unless you're a trust-fund baby or went to a state school or received a full ride? Entertain me, I'll wait

If you can't figure out how me and several others have schooled you on finance, go back and read our posts. A car is going to $0 yet you have no problem spending your life savings to get one out of your price range but you're not interested in a house. Makes sense.

I paid for college myself by working.

Again, you seem to be upset by people telling you no.

1) you asked for help.
2) We are right, objectively speaking.
3) You told us what you make, where you live, and what assets you have.
4) You aren't even close, to be honest.
5) You are clearly stubborn and don't really want advice.
6) You can't handle the truth.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Look at total cost of ownership.
Buy a Cayman GT4 for like $90k.

In 5 years if the market sucks, the car will be around $60k making a loss of $30k which is $6000 per year or $500 per month.

I do not foresee the market for the GT4 going much more below that given naturally aspirated and manual transmission.

Then, the longer you keep the car after it goes to $60K (worst case scenario) the cars value will only increase thereby cutting your losses even more.

If my wife let me buy a fancy car, this is what I would do. I may have to ride my bike to work for the next 10 years as I may lose my shorts speculating on cars, but...

CPO that P Car yo!!!

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by yourcakeisready

Mark - to answer your question as a whole - "yes". Taking on a 30+yr mortgage out on house is just not really "ideal" in my eyes in my position. Could I do it? Fucking sure I could. However - did you read any posts above? I'm 24, I don't want to tie down myself to one whole thing yet for 30+ years of my life just because it appreciates. Financially it makes sense I'm not arguing that. What fun is a house (I won't even purchase a house) it'll be more like a condo or apartment that I will rent out anyways. I don't know, I just don't really think I should be getting something that's even more expensive monthly that is not reasonable while I still have a student loans. I don't think I can afford that - whereas I can afford 650 a month for a car, pay off my loans more or less around the same time the M6 is paid off and THEN begin the housing search.

Sorry I'm not up to your CPA prowess and improperly defined the use of a mortgage

You're 24 now? Thought you were 23 per your first post.

You have to order all wrong. You don't buy a luxury car out of your price range and more than your annual take home pay first. You buy appreciating assets first and then blow your money on fun things like cars and trips.

Tip you should never forget: Once you're done with school, your net worth should increase every day. If it's not, you're doing it wrong.