[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

...while I was exercising as much fun as possible out of the 135i

It was fun for me to watch, I can only imagine how much more fun it was to actually do it, and with manual to top it off, losing that "precious" 0.1 sec. or whatever it is these days.

Great driving, pretty impressive.

[M5essex]

Very cool. You can certainly drive! You were
Loving those apexes and using all the track

[cb4]

Classic move. Saves face by pitting rather than giving you a legitimate point by. This guy is a bit of an ass hat.

Nice driving!

[marcva]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

It ended up working out fine and still had a great time...

I should say Sonoma tends to slow down even experienced drivers who may be pretty fast on other tracks. There are plenty of guys I know who don't avoid this track because they are terrified of it. (I tell them to go to Nurburgring lol)

I call this track The Great Equalizer! Power is less rewarded here than most others, which is one major reason I love this circuit

If you ever get East, Mid Ohio is like that in the rain. It has lots of pavement changes with concrete patches, and you're never really going straight or on camber. Just add water, and you've got a great skidpad exercise.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by jgoens

Oh..this is Sonoma..didn't even recognize it or notice you are in the Silicon Valley. I grew up in Sonoma and now live in San Mateo.

Have you visited this circuit?

Originally Posted by Bbb34

It was fun for me to watch, I can only imagine how much more fun it was to actually do it, and with manual to top it off, losing that "precious" 0.1 sec. or whatever it is these days.

Great driving, pretty impressive.

Originally Posted by M5essex

Very cool. You can certainly drive! You were
Loving those apexes and using all the track

Thanks!

Originally Posted by cb4

Classic move. Saves face by pitting rather than giving you a legitimate point by. This guy is a bit of an ass hat.

Nice driving!

The McLaren driver came across the video and is claiming the blue flag was for the Miata. I may refrain from responding to him - it's pretty clear in the video who the flag was for.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by marcva

If you ever get East, Mid Ohio is like that in the rain. It has lots of pavement changes with concrete patches, and you're never really going straight or on camber. Just add water, and you've got a great skidpad exercise.

Sounds like a fun track! Added to my list of circuits to visit.

[1spirit]

Discovered some articles written on the video. Here are couple that I'd like to share:

CarBuzz.com:
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2016/12/...675LT-7736684/

CarThrottle.com:
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wat...omments_page=3

Wow it's an honor!

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Have you visited this circuit?


.

No, I've never tracked a car. Been to a race there many years ago.

[M3Dimi]

Yea great driving but that mclaren idk the driver obviously but it seems like you say he was exercising caution or just didn't have the experience to push the potential in some of those corners you were catching him on because that car can easily make those corners quicker. Again great driving that was enjoyable to watch I hope I can get to that level when I start hitting the track in my M3 whenever that will be

[SGsurgtech]

Helluva great driving!!!

[DrShimmy]

lovely driving and as the guys mentioned beautiful footwork. Thank you for drawing a big smile on my face after such a long day.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by M3Dimi

Yea great driving but that mclaren idk the driver obviously but it seems like you say he was exercising caution or just didn't have the experience to push the potential in some of those corners you were catching him on because that car can easily make those corners quicker. Again great driving that was enjoyable to watch I hope I can get to that level when I start hitting the track in my M3 whenever that will be

Thanks. You have a great car to be enjoyed on the track

Originally Posted by SGsurgtech

Helluva great driving!!!

Originally Posted by DrShimmy

lovely driving and as the guys mentioned beautiful footwork. Thank you for drawing a big smile on my face after such a long day.

Thank you, glad to hear - that means a lot.

[R12ax7]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Not a stupid question at all - I wish Laguna was offered backwards or clockwise! It's Sonoma Raceway, formerly known as Sears Point or Infineon.

Ah yes of course Infineon...I knew it felt familiar... from Gran Turismo.

[TheMirror]

Fun video to watch, thanks for that!

I can kind of see both sides to the equation there. Infineon is not a horsepower track; having driven a R8 4.2 around it in anger I can say that a big mid-engined wedge with significant power can feel a little claustrophobic around an undulating twisty course like that. In contrast to say, Laguna with its longer straights and big sweeping turns, Infineon rewards precise braking and apex clipping which can be tough for a new driver in a big cruise missle like the McLaren. I'm not surprised he was uber-conservative with the braking and cornering speeds.

My guess is that he was a bit worn out mentally after several laps, easy to do when you're maybe not used to track days.

Obvious the OP knows what he's doing a track tuned 135i is perfect for that place as well!

[chillindrdude]

i dislike people like this.

especially when the blue flag is shown to them. this is pretty blatant, and not heeding corner worker flagging.

i'm normally pretty laid back guy, but you can bet i'd be talking to that driver about it privately in the pits afterwards.

[1spirit]

Originally Posted by R12ax7

Ah yes of course Infineon...I knew it felt familiar... from Gran Turismo.

Yeah... too bad it's no longer in the game. I think it's been gone for the past few iterations

Polyphony Digital, please bring it back!

Originally Posted by TheMirror

Fun video to watch, thanks for that!

I can kind of see both sides to the equation there. Infineon is not a horsepower track; having driven a R8 4.2 around it in anger I can say that a big mid-engined wedge with significant power can feel a little claustrophobic around an undulating twisty course like that. In contrast to say, Laguna with its longer straights and big sweeping turns, Infineon rewards precise braking and apex clipping which can be tough for a new driver in a big cruise missle like the McLaren. I'm not surprised he was uber-conservative with the braking and cornering speeds.

My guess is that he was a bit worn out mentally after several laps, easy to do when you're maybe not used to track days.

Obvious the OP knows what he's doing a track tuned 135i is perfect for that place as well!

Glad to know - thanks for watching!

My 135i definitely has a better chance there than at other tracks like Laguna where power is favored.

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

i dislike people like this.

especially when the blue flag is shown to them. this is pretty blatant, and not heeding corner worker flagging.

i'm normally pretty laid back guy, but you can bet i'd be talking to that driver about it privately in the pits afterwards.

Fortunately the McLaren's astronomical power out of the corners was fun to see in person and that LT rear end was a bit mesmerizing

It's possible he wasn't aware of me... at least he removed himself from the track in the second lap...

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Yeah... too bad it's no longer in the game. I think it's been gone for the past few iterations

Polyphony Digital, please bring it back!

You might want to check out ProjectCARS. They have the GP, National, and Short layouts. It's not the kind of game that plays well with a controller though. You pretty much have to invest in a good FFB racing wheel to play the game without going out of your mind.

IMO, the tire grip model is a little on the slick side. It's hard to explain, but the FFB gives the impression that the car is always sliding. It doesn't feel exactly like a real car, but it makes it possible to ride the limit of grip. IMO, it helps make up for the fact that you're sitting in a static chair. It's almost like the FFB provides a feel for how the chassis is moving around. Hard to explain, but a lot of fun in practice.

FWIW, Sonoma is one of my favorite circuits in pCARS. Although I really wish Assetto Corsa would bring some more US circuits to the game. I really want Sonoma Raceway, Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta, Road America, VIR, and Sebring in Assetto Corsa!

[1spirit]

Good to know, bradleyland! I think I understand what you mean... so pCars makes up for the absent G-force sensations with additional/more sensitive FFB - which I can certainly welcome. Feeling the G-forces is absolutely essential and a sorely missed part of virtual driving/racing so I guess the slicker tire model may be a good thing for me. Let's just say my driving seems significantly worse (and not really fun) in these virtual worlds due to that missing G-force element

Do you like Assetto Corsa better? What wheel/pedal/rig setup do you use? Pardon me for going off topic in my own thread lol.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Good to know, bradleyland! I think I understand what you mean... so pCars makes up for the absent G-force sensations with additional/more sensitive FFB - which I can certainly welcome. Feeling the G-forces is absolutely essential and a sorely missed part of virtual driving/racing so I guess the slicker tire model may be a good thing for me. Let's just say my driving seems significantly worse (and not really fun) in these virtual worlds due to that missing G-force element

Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. It's like the game sends "extra" information through the FFB in a way that pushes you around in your seat. It ends up feeling more like you're in the car.

Originally Posted by 1spirit

Do you like Assetto Corsa better? What wheel/pedal/rig setup do you use? Pardon me for going off topic in my own thread lol.

I have the T300RS Ferrari Alcantara edition. It has a 30cm wheel (most wheels have a 28cm wheel) and the T3PA pedals (gas/brake/clutch) with a little rubber cone behind the brake pedal to give it a feel more like a real car. I don't have a rig, because my desk setup is actually really well suited to the task (photo below). And yes, that is live telemetry/timing/tire temps on the vertical display



The only thing I really need to change is to build a pedal mount. When I heel-toe, my pedals sometimes lift off the floor. I'm going to build a board with:

- A dead-pedal for my clutch foot
- A "transmission hump" on the right side, so that my feet are constrained to the pedal area like a real car footwell
- A strap mount for anchoring my desk chair to the pedal board

It's sometimes easy to get disoriented with the pedals moving around a bit. I'm going to staple some rug gripper material to the bottom of the board, and the strap will keep my chair from pushing away from the pedals when I jam on the brake.

I've found different things to appreciate about both Assetto Corsa and ProjectCARS. IMO, the feedback through the wheel is more accurate in AC, but pCARS has more tracks, incredible dynamic weather, and day/night racing. I find myself switching between the two, playing each one for several weeks (contiguously) before switching.

One thing worth noting is that the online racing experience in pCARS is head & shoulders better than AC. AC has this really goofy online system of dedicated servers, where each server is locked to a specific car & track combo. This makes it really hard to race as a group. Any time you want to change car & track, you have to exit the server and try to find each other again. It doesn't help that you can't invite friends once you enter the session (even in qualifying). You have to sit in the car selection lobby and make sure everyone makes it in. It's inevitable that someone gets left behind.

When I play pCARS online, I usually get locked in with a solid group, who will join a party and work together to keep the lobby clean (kicking idiots and wreckers). Their online system lets the host change the car, track, time of day, weather, race and format, all from within the lobby. The entire experience is just worlds better in pCARS.

The only online aspect AC has going for it is the Nordschleife Tourist server. It's the Nords Tourist layout — you actually enter from the toll booth on Dottinger-Hohe — with a really long session time (18 hours, I think). Because there are separate start & finish lines (bridge & gantry, of course), it makes for a completely different kind of game play. Everyone kind of hangs out, going out for a lap here and there. It's really extraordinary to hook up with two or three people, and go out for a fun run on the ring. Because it's not a race, you don't have to push at 10/10ths the whole time, which makes for some good times just having fun.

I've been without a car (excluding the wife's X3) since my M3 went back in November, and sim racing is the only thing keeping me alive lol. It's given me the opportunity to take a step back and really understand what I like about driving, and it's even changed my perspective on what kind of car I want. I can't recommend it highly enough.

The last thing I'll say is that the E92 M3 is available in Assetto Corsa, and I kid you not, it is unmistakably the same car. The accuracy of how they depicted the car in the game is uncanny. Any time I miss my car, I can fire up AC and have a go around the Nordschleife, and I feel a sense of calm

[marcva]

I still run race07 simply for access to tracks...specifically, mid ohio and st jovite. Which are two of my favorite live tracks to drive. The physics, force and graphics are good enough. There are a lot of aftermarket tracks for race07, and the game itself is a bargain-bin purchase.

[1spirit]

bradleyland, thanks for sharing your setup and your plans to improve it. Are you running the sims via a virtual machine on the iMac? Which Windows version do you use?

I’ve got to play pCARS and AC sometime. Your detailed explanation of the differences is helpful - I can see now why you switch between the two. Seems like I’d do the same. Amazing to hear your car in a sim feels like the real thing! That is quite a feat by AC. And the Nordschleife Tourist sounds awesome.

I might have to give these sims another chance. I’m considering to get the sim hardware from Fanatec - any thoughts on this?

If you don’t mind, may I ask what kind of car you want now after sim racing? Very curious to know!


marcva, thanks for the suggestion about race07.

[bradleyland]

Sorry this is so long. As Mark Twain said, "I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead."

So, I actually run a PS4. I used to build gaming PCs, but I got tired of the constant driver issues and $400 graphics card upgrade cycle. The iMac runs a Windows 10 VM for telemetry apps. One downside to PS4 is that AC currently has zero telemetry support. pCARS offers a UDP streaming protocol that third party apps can connect to. pCARS users on PC are able to use something called "shared memory", which has a much higher refresh rate. I'm seriously considering jumping back in to the PC thing, mainly so I can go VR, and to get telemetry support in AC.

Fanatec makes some incredible kit. Their stuff is the best you can get without making the jump to full-blown commercial sim gear. It's quite a bit more expensive than the stuff from Thrustmaster though. I'm talking 2x to 4x more expensive. For example, you can buy the T300RS Ferrari Alcantara for about $480. A wheel base, wheel, and pedals from Fanatec will set you back $1,200. I think the quality is there, but it's a big commitment.

Fanatec has also run in to some serious licensing issues with Sony lately. Their very expensive wheel just got dropped from official support by Sony. Word is, they're going to release an officially licensed product some time soon, but it's horrifying to think of the PS4 people who spent >$1,200 on Fanatec gear, and are now out of luck. The lesson is that if you want to go Fanatec, stick with PC.

What sim racing has taught me is that what looks good on paper really doesn't translate directly to what you'll enjoy. A car can be capable of incredible lap times, and still be boring to drive. Or even worse, frenetic to the point that you can't enjoy it. My experience has turned out to be the opposite of what I thought it would be. I generally enjoy older, slower cars more, where I thought for sure I'd be all about the fast cars from Ferrari, Pagani, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the hell out of the fast cars, but there's something deeply enjoyable about a car like the 1966 Alfa Romeo GTA. When you're turning blindingly fast lap times, you brain is moving a mile a minute. Fast cars have incredible body control, so you end up far more focused on the technical aspects like nailing braking points to within a few feet, and looking carefully for your turn in points, so you don't end up early apexing and running wide... Or some such silly technical mistake.

I've learned that a slow car that moves around provides many more opportunities for you to manage the weight of the car. In a Ferrari 488 GTB, if you lift at the wrong point, the rear is going to pass you up. Your hands aren't fast enough; you tell yourself that they are, but they're not. In the GTA, you lift and the rear begins to step out, but slowly. As you correct, the slide scrubs off speed and all of the sudden the extra rotation is helping you stay on circuit. Yes, you've lost 0.3s of lap time, but you've enjoyed the hell out of the loss.

IMO, this is why older (er, mature?) enthusiasts swoon over cars like the E30 M3, classic 911s, and older Alfas. I've only driven most of these in sim racers, but I have spent some time behind the wheel of a '79 911SC with a carb'd 3.2 swap. I've never driven anything quite like.

Mechanical. Visceral. Terrifying.

I think that's what I want next. I'm not sure I can swing a classic 911 — prices are simply out of control — but something with this spirit. Of all the modern cars in Assetto Corsa, the Miata is probably the closest to these classic cars. I'll definitely get some seat time in the Miata before I buy another car. It strikes me that cars like my E92 M3 are great cars, but in part, you buy them for everyone else. The Miata is a car you buy for yourself. I'm just not sure if I can make that compromise completely. Interestingly, the Cayman 718 S is a car that I enjoy a lot in Assetto Corsa. It's fast, but it still moves around quite a bit and the balance is incredible. You have to trail brake a bit in order for it to rotate, but the rear will still come around if you aren't careful.

I may end up going completely bonkers and overspending on an E30 or a classic 911. We'll see. I am 100% confident that my next car will be slower than my E92 M3, but it will have more character, and it will be more fun to drive.

[1spirit]

Wow appreciate all the info, bradleyland

I wasn’t aware of those issues with Fanatec - thanks for the heads up. Now I’d rather wait for their product to be licensed and supported by Sony. Looking forward to Gran Turismo Sport on the PS4.

That is very invaluable stuff you’ve learned from sim racing - it seems to have enlightened you about what’s truly important in the driving experience and understanding the certain character of a car that best delivers joy to you as a driver. That's awesome

I drove a Miata for the first time last year on an autocross course, and I was so pleasantly surprised at how fun it was at the limit. The car rotates very nicely with such precision and control. Also being able to swing the rear out at extreme angles with just trail braking (aggressive) and at slow speeds was so satisfying. Afterwards I immediately wanted to own one, but then realized I didn’t fit comfortably when the roof was down. It may be low in power but has a lot of character.

I've heard good things about the cars you mention by fast experienced drivers and coaches. Especially the E30's which I would have overlooked if it weren't for their praise.