[eluded]

I drove the rwd model 3. Was terribly disappointed. Nice but not what I expected. Thought it would be faster. Steering was opposite of the f30. Great center feel but as soon as you turn the wheel.... meh.

[Machinebuilder]

I have two BMW's but I think that Tesla's and electric cars are the future. Anyone who drives them can attest that the immediate torque is addicting. Tesla is leading the way but all other car makers will need to offer similar products or be left behind. ICE cars sipping dino juice are going to lose their values and then slowly get phased out. I am still driving a 6 speed manual but after getting out of a Tesla I felt like I was still using the first Nokia phone. The future is here and it will be fast and torque.

[pjkbrit]

Tesla's still "sip Dino juice". They just export the noise smell and pollution to a power plant. Solar chargers would be different but so far they are still another Musk pipe dream.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by pjkbrit

Tesla's still "sip Dino juice". They just export the noise smell and pollution to a power plant. Solar chargers would be different but so far they are still another Musk pipe dream.

You forget about industrial wind, solar, and hydro. And in more forward-looking countries they provide a much larger percentage of power compared to the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ewable_sources

[FastF30]

Until the battery technology is to par with the same time of filling up your car with petrol.... I'm not buying one..... Lipo batteries tesla is using is junk.... then you guys say Ooooh supercharger etc.... supercharging deletes the batteries service length more than anything.... so will be interesting to see these new super capicators that are coming out... I figure 10years ...

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Until the battery technology is to par with the same time of filling up your car with petrol.... I'm not buying one..... Lipo batteries tesla is using is junk.... then you guys say Ooooh supercharger etc.... supercharging deletes the batteries service length more than anything.... so will be interesting to see these new super capicators that are coming out... I figure 10years ...

Do you know how many times I had to use a supercharger in the 4 months of ownership?

2.

(I especially like the combination of "fast" in your name and all the ellipses in your text.)

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Do you know how many times I had to use a supercharger in the 4 months of ownership?

2.

(I especially like the combination of "fast" in your name and all the ellipses in your text.)

Unfortunately a big percentage of drivers don't have overnight charging available... me being one... So right now it's impractical for me anyways... if you lease and/ or have overnight then I could see it... the batteries have a shelf life... I have a few dozen very expensive lipos I don't use anymore and have been sitting on the shelf deteriorating for my 700 size electric helicopter (1500mm dia swinging carbon fiber blades... )... they are only good for 2 years then the power is not there to even try risking flying with them like this.... this is my 14s (51.8v) set-up.... Same so-called technology tesla is using... So I'm a little familiar with eletric setups... ... don't get me wrong..... I'm pro electric all the way.... just not right now...

[FastF30]

Now that you got me going... lol... I would like to see some type of graphene wound motor... something that's about 1/3 less the weight of todays motors... same with the batteries weight.... battery wise the technology has been around the corner for a little while now... last I checked something big on the horizon is coming so 7-10 years the bugs hopefully are worked out... charge your phone in seconds... and yes your car in the same time as filling up on petrol...batteries that last forever... great times to be a driving enthusiast...

Tesla as a car in whole... I gotta give them credit but could be doing a lot better manufacturing wise obviously... they have the market/ sales... just gotta deliver... and support and .....

Infrastructure is what really needs to catch up now...

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Unfortunately a big percentage of drivers don't have overnight charging available... me being one...

You're judging based on a sample of one (yourself). Homeownership in the U.S. is at 65% right now. I'm pretty sure Elon is not losing much sleep not having access to 35% of the households or even more specifically you.

I have a few dozen very expensive lipos

Why do you keep bringing up LiPo batteries in a conversation about Tesla cars? Panasonic 2170s are LiNiCoAlO2 aka NCA.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

You're judging based on a sample of one (yourself). Homeownership in the U.S. is at 65% right now. I'm pretty sure Elon is not losing much sleep not having access to 35% of the households or even more specifically you.

Why do you keep bringing up LiPo batteries in a conversation about Tesla cars? Panasonic 2170s are LiNiCoAlO2 aka NCA.

that includes condos and apartments...

Do the batteries have lithium in them.... last I checked ...yes... no good...

[FastF30]

P.s.
NYC has 3.9million cars.... probably 95% don't have access to charging overnight.... I'm sure there is somebody that is worrying about who's gonna get that share.... not to mention all the other major cities...

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by FastF30

that includes condos and apartments...

You have a point: I found you the wrong number. However, the right one is almost the same: 60%. https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hous...ric/units.html

And this is basically the floor for the availability of self-charging: virtually all detached houses should have the means to set up a charger, but this is also going to be true for many townhomes and mobile homes; apartment buildings are now starting to offer CHAdeMO or similar charging stations on premises too.

Do the batteries have lithium in them.... last I checked ...yes... no good...

Nope nope nope. You've basically just confirmed you don't understand battery tech at all. This is almost like saying that all cylindrical batteries work the same.

Originally Posted by FastF30

P.s.
NYC has 3.9million cars.... probably 95% don't have access to charging overnight.... I'm sure there is somebody that is worrying about who's gonna get that share.... not to mention all the other major cities...

I suspect you don't fully realize the diversity of housing in NYC Metro.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

You have a point: I found you the wrong number. However, the right one is almost the same: 60%. https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hous...ric/units.html

And this is basically the floor for the availability of self-charging: virtually all detached houses should have the means to set up a charger, but this is also going to be true for many townhomes and mobile homes; apartment buildings are now starting to offer CHAdeMO or similar charging stations on premises too.
Nope nope nope. You've basically just confirmed you don't understand battery tech at all. This is almost like saying that all cylindrical batteries work the same.

I suspect you don't fully realize the diversity of housing in NYC Metro.

do the batteries catch on fire.... yes.... they are nothing special... just high end lithium junk just my opinion... tesla batteries are still subject to the rules that go with my batteries...

I guess there will be only a couple of million extension cords across the sidewalks to charge the cars here in the city... lol...

but hey if your happy that's all that matters...

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

You have a point: I found you the wrong number. However, the right one is almost the same: 60%. https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hous...ric/units.html

And this is basically the floor for the availability of self-charging: virtually all detached houses should have the means to set up a charger, but this is also going to be true for many townhomes and mobile homes; apartment buildings are now starting to offer CHAdeMO or similar charging stations on premises too.
Nope nope nope. You've basically just confirmed you don't understand battery tech at all. This is almost like saying that all cylindrical batteries work the same.

I suspect you don't fully realize the diversity of housing in NYC Metro.

The retrofit costs of existing homes to support NEMA 14-50 may not be cheap, so it is not a realistic assumption that the 60% floor will all be EV capable.

And in a metro like NYC, if 30% of cars(that travel 10k/yr, 333kW/mile) need night-time charging, just imagine the kW capacity required. Basically the city needs to build a parallel infrastructure similar to the water supply.

And as advanced as Tesla battery goes, is it good enough? There are Telsa(and other makes too) lithium ion battery fires that burn for hours(and reignite hours later too). Tesla and lithium ion battery industry have been quiet about the fire hazards, and that is not too confidence inspiring.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

The retrofit costs of existing homes to support NEMA 14-50 may not be cheap, so it is not a realistic assumption that the 60% floor will all be EV capable.

If you have 200A, you're set. If you don't, the upgrade is typically under $2K, or you can choose to charge at lower amps - in real life use, even something like NEMA 6-20 that gives you 15 miles/hr is plenty enough.

And in a metro like NYC, if 30% of cars(that travel 10k/yr, 333kW/mile) need night-time charging, just imagine the kW capacity required. Basically the city needs to build a parallel infrastructure similar to the water supply.

This is a totally valid concern. But assuming the ellipsis guy's 3.9M cars figure is correct, 30% would equal to 1.08M cars. Even if Tesla doesn't sell cars anywhere but NYC it would take them 3 years to make that many. In other words, something needs to be done there, but there's plenty of time to get it done. There's also a lot that can be done simply by offering discount rates at night time when the demand is low and the grid has plenty of spare capacity.

And as advanced as Tesla battery goes, is it good enough? There are Telsa(and other makes too) lithium ion battery fires that burn for hours(and reignite hours later too). Tesla and lithium ion battery industry have been quiet about the fire hazards, and that is not too confidence inspiring.

Did you hear about BMW getting fined by S. Korea? Over 50 fires in a pretty short period of time, in a relatively small market. How many Tesla fires have we heard of over the years? Comparing the two numbers, which car would you conclude to be a bigger fire hazard?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

If you have 200A, you're set. If you don't, the upgrade is typically under $2K, or you can choose to charge at lower amps - in real life use, even something like NEMA 6-20 that gives you 15 miles/hr is plenty enough.
This is a totally valid concern. But assuming the ellipsis guy's 3.9M cars figure is correct, 30% would equal to 1.08M cars. Even if Tesla doesn't sell cars anywhere but NYC it would take them 3 years to make that many. In other words, something needs to be done there, but there's plenty of time to get it done. There's also a lot that can be done simply by offering discount rates at night time when the demand is low and the grid has plenty of spare capacity.

Did you hear about BMW getting fined by S. Korea? Over 50 fires in a pretty short period of time, in a relatively small market. How many Tesla fires have we heard of over the years? Comparing the two numbers, which car would you conclude to be a bigger fire hazard?

You meant 20A to 30A, right? It would be quite scary to have 200A at home .... My dryer plug is 30A 220V(or 240V?), so for now a hybrid with 12KWh battery@40 miles range like G20 330e seems to be a good fit.

As far as 1.08M cars, in addition to Tesla, there are also Chevy and Nissan (with much deeper manufacturing capacity than Tesla) churning out their 200-mile range EVs, let alone the German conglomerates putting their manufacturing muscles behind EVs, so the days of 1.08M EVs may not be that far off. There is truth that Bolt and old-gen Leaf are not hot sellers, but in general EV sales, and hence demand on the EV infrastructure is ramping up.

Any make(including BMW) who does not address safety issues deserves to be reprimanded. And in BMW's 1.6m recall of diesel fire risk, BMW offers an explanation how the failure occurred and can occur, so owners can have some ideas what to watch out for.

The issue with lithium ion battery fire is that, it is a different type of fire that overwhelms firefighters. The lithium ion battery manufacturers(e.g. Panasonic in Tesla's building, or LG, etc, etc) plus the automakers who use these batteries have not presented any resolution nor explanation, while tens of thousands of these cars are pushed out to the roads.

Comparing the two contexts, which car would you conclude to be a bigger fire hazard?

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by 3A53

200A service...

Well my main is an impeccable 125A, so running nightly AC + cloth dryer + 50A to 60A EV charger probably may push the envelope.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by sr5959

Well I really mean Tesla are in trouble not just from the Jag but also the other EV competitors from upmarket makes about to hit the showrooms...this is just the first of many Tesla alternatives.

Small trunk and no frunk.

[FastF30]

I don't know the specifics but from what I read there to be a carbon battery from Japan ticks all the right boxes...

Lithium batteries fires in my hobby is caused by a cell going bad and being charged... how many cells are in a Tesla battery.... that's what is scary

Like I said... I'm 100% going EV... just not with lithium batteries

Ps... anything over a trickle charge (1c charge rate) increases the risk...

Ps my heli draws spikes of 293amps during certain maneuvers

[Antec800]

Recently test drove a model 3, im beginning to think most people who purchased this car came from a cheaper econo car, or a Prius. The instant torque was fun but the car still doesn’t feel fast, ride isn’t great, interior felt cheap, doors didn’t feel solid and didn’t close very solid either im just not sure what’s the deal.

[Wgosma]

Originally Posted by Antec800

Recently test drove a model 3, im beginning to think most people who purchased this car came from a cheaper econo car, or a Prius. The instant torque was fun but the car still doesn't feel fast, ride isn't great, interior felt cheap, doors didn't feel solid and didn't close very solid either im just not sure what's the deal.

You might be correct about previous owners vehicles. I've not driven a Tesla but the lack of solid feel, build quality, fitment issues and such would put me off at the price point the Model 3 is currently at. I've walked around a couple of Tesla Cars and it's visually off-putting to see the irregular gaps in the body panels- not what I'd expect to see on car that carries a $40K+ price tag.

I suppose if one had never owned a solidly built Euro car (BMW, Benz, etc.) they may well not realize what they missing. I have a buddy who just acquired a used Benz AMG ride after umpteen years of driving an Infiniti G35 sedan...in just couple days time in the Benz he remarked to me about how much more solid the car felt compared to the G35.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Well my main is an impeccable 125A, so running nightly AC + cloth dryer + 50A to 60A EV charger probably may push the envelope.

That's why I mentioned 6-20. It's even less than what your dryer consumes, but you still get 15 miles/hr charge that will be plenty to recharge the battery for your next morning's commute (unless of course you drive 50+ miles each way to work, in which case we need to talk about your other life choices).

Originally Posted by Wgosma

I suppose if one had never owned a solidly built Euro car (BMW, Benz, etc.) they may well not realize what they missing.

I wonder if you somehow missed the subject of this thread...