[Squawks]

We may eventually see another Kings vs Lakers rivalry matchup in the Conf Finals! Kings evened it up against the Spurs 2-2, woohoo!

[rchanou]

huchung please stop drinking that hatorade.

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by huchung

"Mr. Clutch":

Add a couple more for sunday...i'll throw in a couple more freebies since the site hasnt been updated since 4/13/2006, and you get:

7/32 + 2/2 + 2/2 (freebies)= 11/36 ==> 30.6%.

from 82games:
"Kobe Bryant meanwhile has indeed had seven such made shots over the past three seasons (including playoffs), but at a pretty low conversion rate, even factoring in his free throws.

The other thing with Kobe and a number of go-to guys is that they are not looking to pass the ball! Zero assists in these "final possession" states for Bryant with 32 shots taken (the most for any player with zero assists) says something. "

Dont wanna bring up bad memories, but this is also the team, er....player, that has a losing record in games decided by <4 pts.

"You knew he was going to shoot it," said Sun Coach Mike D'Antoni, sighing. "And you knew he was probably going to make it."
30.6% of the time...
Think about that.

It's sad you can't enjoy this moment with the rest of us. I feel for you. If you'd like to manipulate stats and numbers to show how bad of a player Kobe is, and that if we were to replace with any other player, this Laker team would be doing better... go right ahead. The fact is, watch the game and you know this Lakers team has been riding on his back. Can the other MVP candidates in the league carry this team any further than Kobe? Let's examine.. Lebron James? He has a better team surrounding him and they're tied 2-2 in the series... against a much worse team then the Suns. Dwayne Wade... not even close, tied against the BULLS, WITH Shaq! Elton Brand couldn't carry the Clippers to the playoffs without Cassell and Mobely. Steve Nash, he probably would come the closest, but I doubt he can carry a team with starters such as Kwame, Odom and Smush. Even if his percentage of making game winning shots are only 30.6%, tell me who else in the league has a better percentage? Carmello? I wouldn't trade Kobe for that kid in a 100 years. Lebron? He doesn't even have the guts to take that shot, or he travels when he does. 1 in 3 chance Kobe will win the game? I'll give it to him as that's a better percentage then anyone else on the team, or in the league.

"You knew he was going to shoot it," said Sun Coach Mike D'Antoni, sighing. "And you knew he was probably going to make it." You knew it's going to happen because he did it so many times before. Seriously, you would rather have Odom taking that shot? Hating Kobe is one thing, but now you're just hating greatness, and honestly, it's pretty pathetic.

[rchanou]

There is a reason USA Basketball picked Kobe as the centerpiece for the national team, and it's not because Nash is Canadian.

[huchung]

rchanou, theres not much to hate on but some images put out by the NBA and Nike Public Relations to endorse him to the casual fan...I was once on the Kobe bandwagon (when he was traded to LA), but his situation with shaq, and his at any cost mentality (a la AI) has made me weary of his game. Hes the best HORSE player in the league, but basketball isnt a game of HORSE or A**. There are shot selections, game flow, schemes, attack points, etc etc. Take out the shot selection because he'll jack up any shot over 5 defenders...Take out the game flow, cuz its the black hole when you give it to him...

Hes a great individual player, a la a young MJ, but if he keeps jacking up shots, thats all he'll ever be. Hes shown some sign in the playoffs by being more team oriented and "passive" (ONLY taking 19.25 shots/game), but I dont judge a player by ONE series. To be great like Mike, he needs to make his teammates better, which weve only seen glimpse of in this series. If he improves his team game, then hell, i'll admit hes got TEAM game. Til then, I'll stop 'hating' and admit that hes the best HORSE/1-on-1 player in the league...In the meantime, if you buy that hes a great team player, then I got snake oil I think you'd be interested in.

Note: Regarding his 8 assist game, he also had 7 Turn Overs. Very harmful considering they're playing the team that likes to run.

[huchung]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

It's sad you can't enjoy this moment with the rest of us. I feel for you. If you'd like to manipulate stats and numbers to show how bad of a player Kobe is, and that if we were to replace with any other player, this Laker team would be doing better... go right ahead. The fact is, watch the game and you know this Lakers team has been riding on his back. Can the other MVP candidates in the league carry this team any further than Kobe? Let's examine.. Lebron James? He has a better team surrounding him and they're tied 2-2 in the series... against a much worse team then the Suns. Dwayne Wade... not even close, tied against the BULLS, WITH Shaq! Elton Brand couldn't carry the Clippers to the playoffs without Cassell and Mobely. Steve Nash, he probably would come the closest, but I doubt he can carry a team with starters such as Kwame, Odom and Smush. Even if his percentage of making game winning shots are only 30.6%, tell me who else in the league has a better percentage? Carmello? I wouldn't trade Kobe for that kid in a 100 years. Lebron? He doesn't even have the guts to take that shot, or he travels when he does. 1 in 3 chance Kobe will win the game? I'll give it to him as that's a better percentage then anyone else on the team, or in the league.

"You knew he was going to shoot it," said Sun Coach Mike D'Antoni, sighing. "And you knew he was probably going to make it." You knew it's going to happen because he did it so many times before. Seriously, you would rather have Odom taking that shot? Hating Kobe is one thing, but now you're just hating greatness, and honestly, it's pretty pathetic.

Thats not even my site, and Im MANIPULATING the stats? Hold off man, do you realize that this is the same SUNS team thats lost their whole interior defense before the playoffs! Youre acting as if this is a steaming hot team with 1 (Arenas) first options and three (Butler, Jamison, Daniels) second options that Lebron has to face in the wizards! Who do ythe SUNS have? Barbosa, Diaw, House, Bell, J. Jones, Thomas, Marion? With the exception of Nash and Marion (2nd option), none of those guys are even third option guys; they are ROLE players.

"Hating Kobe is one thing, but now you're just hating greatness, and honestly, it's pretty pathetic."

Greatness? Youre giving him that title already? Maybe I should sell you some snake oil.

[rchanou]

Even with the lost of Thomas and Amare a lot of people expected the Suns to dispatch the Lakers in six. I think timzerofive is trying to say that Nash has solid role players around him who produced all season long. We have only seen this solid play from Kwame, Lamar, Walton for the past month, after the all-star break. As for the Cavs vs. Wizards, Lebron has an underachieving supporting cast - so it's a wonder how people say he makes his teammates better. Lebron is a freak but their offensive schemes are really bad.

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by huchung

Hes the best HORSE player in the league, but basketball isnt a game of HORSE or A**. There are shot selections, game flow, schemes, attack points, etc etc. Take out the shot selection because he'll jack up any shot over 5 defenders...Take out the game flow, cuz its the black hole when you give it to him...

Based on this comment alone, I'll have to conclude that you have not been watching this series at all, as he's been doing the EXACT opposite. If you're saying he has not been doing this all season long, so what, he got the Laker's into the playoffs at a great position when no one thought they could make it, and he set a few NBA records along the way. He's the best all around player in the NBA and he has brought this Laker team to a new level.

Originally Posted by huchung

Thats not even my site, and Im MANIPULATING the stats? Hold off man, do you realize that this is the same SUNS team thats lost their whole interior defense before the playoffs! Youre acting as if this is a steaming hot team with 1 (Arenas) first options and three (Butler, Jamison, Daniels) second options that Lebron has to face in the wizards! Who do ythe SUNS have? Barbosa, Diaw, House, Bell, J. Jones, Thomas, Marion? With the exception of Nash and Marion (2nd option), none of those guys are even third option guys; they are ROLE players.

"Hating Kobe is one thing, but now you're just hating greatness, and honestly, it's pretty pathetic."

Greatness? Youre giving him that title already? Maybe I should sell you some snake oil.

That wizard team will not be able to beat this Sun's team. That cavalier team will not be able to beat this Sun's team. Role player is the keyword, they play their role extremely well, while the lakers' role players are not as efficient. I'll give to the Sun's that they are not at full strength, but inside presence has never been part of their main concern.

Yes, greatness, enjoy it while you can. There's no bandwagon here, there's no hype here, just pure great basketball. It's a great day to be Lakers and Kobe fan. It's like that Jordan shot to put the Bulls over Utah, its one for the ages that ANY basketball fan can enjoy.

[timzerofive]

Haha look at what I found.

[huchung]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Based on this comment alone, I'll have to conclude that you have not been watching this series at all, as he's been doing the EXACT opposite. If you're saying he has not been doing this all season long, so what, he got the Laker's into the playoffs at a great position when no one thought they could make it, and he set a few NBA records along the way. He's the best all around player in the NBA and he has brought this Laker team to a new level.

Based on this comment, I can tell that you either a)dont remember what i said in prior posts, or b)havent read anything i wrote. Let me emphasis again, ONE SERIES does not determine a player's game:

Originally Posted by huchung

Hes a great individual player, a la a young MJ, but if he keeps jacking up shots, thats all he'll ever be. Hes shown some sign in the playoffs by being more team oriented and "passive" (ONLY taking 19.25 shots/game), but I dont judge a player by ONE series. To be great like Mike, he needs to make his teammates better, which weve only seen glimpse of in this series.

[timzerofive]

double post

[timzerofive]

Your first said that Kobe is not the MVP for his team this series (claiming Lamar is), and then you turn around and claim that it doesn't matter what he has done this series, "one series does not determine a player's game"... somewhat contradictory. Perhaps you didn't read what you wrote yourself. He proved himself to be the most valuable player on his team in the regular season one way, and he again proved himself to be the most valuable a different way in this series.

If you want to bring out basketball "philosophies" and start claiming how Kobe did not do this and did not do that in the regular season and thus he is not the MVP, I got an easy one for you. In almost any sports, especially basketball, defense wins the game, defense wins championships. Plain and simple philosophy that every coach goes by (although not always implement). Steve Nash does not have a strong defensive game, and therefore he's not the MVP. This is easily evidenced by one simple fact, Nash's Suns team never got the finals, never won a championship, and chances are, they never will.

[gohawks23]

I think the Suns take the next three to win the series...the Lakers can't keep playing this far over their heads...the real Kobe (a very lame version of a wannabe MJ) has to come out soon and he will start bombing from wherever...

[NaTuReB0Y]

steve nash wins 2nd consecutive mvp award.....unbelievable!!

[kobechrome]

It doesn't matter if the whole Kobe being a team player is a sham. He has everyone on his team believing it and playing alot better so up till now in this 3-1 series, that's all that matters. If it is a sham, he deserves an Oscar for this performance.

The Suns admittedly limped into the playoffs and are without Amare and Kurt Thomas... even so, they are still a 50+ win team. If anything, the Lakers seem to have karma on their side.

Finally - Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA. If he continues to play with the attitude he is playing with now for the rest of his career - he will win more titles and more than his first MVP trophy.

Anyone is who is ripping into him now is just plain bitter.

[NaTuReB0Y]

he won those nba titles because shaq was his savior......

without the big man....the lakers are a below average team.....

even the clippers are the better team......

[huchung]

Somehow, someone from ESPN managed to MANIPULATE (as timzerofive likes to put it) numbers and shown that Lamar is the key, and not Kobe.

Enjoy the reading:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index?...lid=gn_NBA_NBA

From ESPN:
" Hidden Key
The Lakers are up 3-1 because Kobe's sharing the ball, right? Uh-uh. John Hollinger says it's not working, but something else is. "

"he won those nba titles because shaq was his savior......"

Couldnt agree more. HALLWAY series, here we come!

[timzerofive]

And Shaq the savior has won HOW many championships since he left the Lakers???

Why don't you answer this for me, you're saying this Lakers team would be where they are today without Kobe?

[gohawks23]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

And Shaq the savior has won HOW many championships since he left the Lakers???

Shaq's dominant years were spent with Ko-baby in LA. Ko-baby would have no rings without Shaq...ANYBODY can see that.

[timzerofive]

Actually Shaq's most DOMINANT years were in Orlando, with Penny. When he had 2% body fat and could pull down the entire basket. When he got to the Lakers, he was already overweight and plagued with injury. Yes, it is obvious that those 3 glorious Lakers championships that Kobe has were not possible without Shaq, but it's the same vice versa. Shaq couldn't do it with Penny (when he was good), and can't even get close with Wade.

[Squawks]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Actually Shaq's most DOMINANT years were in Orlando, with Penny. When he had 2% body fat and could pull down the entire basket.

Actually Shaq's most DOMINANT years were in LSU - he was a speedy freak dunking like Clyde Drexler back in the days!

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by kobechrome

It doesn't matter if the whole Kobe being a team player is a sham. He has everyone on his team believing it and playing alot better so up till now in this 3-1 series, that's all that matters. If it is a sham, he deserves an Oscar for this performance.

The Suns admittedly limped into the playoffs and are without Amare and Kurt Thomas... even so, they are still a 50+ win team. If anything, the Lakers seem to have karma on their side.

Finally - Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA. If he continues to play with the attitude he is playing with now for the rest of his career - he will win more titles and more than his first MVP trophy.

Anyone is who is ripping into him now is just plain bitter.

You know what would be a great playoff match up for finals, Cavs and Lakers. Wouldn't that be something. And you're right, Kobe haters will hate him forever, but he'll still have the 3 rings plus however many more he'll win. He'll have the NBA's second highest scoring accomplishment in a game. He'll go down in history as one of the greatest that ever played the game, get inducted into the hall of fame, and the haters will just have to live with their bitterness forever. Let's go Lakers!

BTW, my friend has 2 tickets for sale to series B, Game 1 (home) section 118. Anyone interested?