[R3dLeader]

FCP has index 12 injectors for $294 each now. Seems like the price has come down a bit?

[Wes335XI]

Originally Posted by R3dLeader

FCP has index 12 injectors for $294 each now. Seems like the price has come down a bit?

When did the index 12 injectors come out? I thought I had the newest ones, as it was the only way I could hit my power goals without misfires. It was a huge issue early on. But I've also heard now overtime they will leak and cause more issues, a weird one being white smoke from a leaking injector. Which is something I may have in my rear bank.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by Wes335XI

When did the index 12 injectors come out? I thought I had the newest ones, as it was the only way I could hit my power goals without misfires. It was a huge issue early on. But I've also heard now overtime they will leak and cause more issues, a weird one being white smoke from a leaking injector. Which is something I may have in my rear bank.

Index 12 injectors aren't going to give you and more power, or flow any more fuel. They have been out for years. Injectors either work or they don't. I'm making close to 600hp on a mix of index 1, 7, and 12 injectors (yes, you can mix them). No issues...and the car runs like a top.

If I couldn't find new index 12's....I would be fine with any other index injector as long as it was brand new.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Index 12 injectors aren't going to give you and more power, or flow any more fuel. They have been out for years. Injectors either work or they don't. I'm making close to 600hp on a mix of index 1, 7, and 12 injectors (yes, you can mix them). No issues...and the car runs like a top.

If I couldn't find new index 12's....I would be fine with any other index injector as long as it was brand new.

Nice to hear of your experience and all is still going fine with the injector mixing. I'm going to do the same and just replace them as they break one by one.

[Wes335XI]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Index 12 injectors aren't going to give you and more power, or flow any more fuel. They have been out for years. Injectors either work or they don't. I'm making close to 600hp on a mix of index 1, 7, and 12 injectors (yes, you can mix them). No issues...and the car runs like a top.

If I couldn't find new index 12's....I would be fine with any other index injector as long as it was brand new.

I appreciate the info. I've had them replaced under warranty and out of warranty. But hopefully they won't need replaced again. No misfire issues at all, but I was curious when they did come out.

That help clarifies that index 12 injectors aren't the end all be all. Some have made it sound like they're the answer and a permanent fix if you were experiencing a leaky injector or misfires. But hey, cheaper to replace one and not 3 or all 6. Thanks again.

[Sgop335]

Bmw states that index 11 and up cant be mixed w less than 11 (in a bank). What do they know?
All of mine are less than 11, in fact most are index 1 and few are 9 bank2 iirc. Mix n match. Were purchased low milage USED from ebay

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Bmw states that index 11 and up cant be mixed w less than 11 (in a bank). What do they know?
All of mine are less than 11, in fact most are index 1 and few are 9 bank2 iirc. Mix n match. Were purchased low milage USED from ebay

While you are right, a few members here did so with no ill effects in real world so I'm going to give it a shot to considering the price of 6.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Bmw states that index 11 and up cant be mixed w less than 11 (in a bank). What do they know?
All of mine are less than 11, in fact most are index 1 and few are 9 bank2 iirc. Mix n match. Were purchased low milage USED from ebay

Yep...that's what they say, but my logs look great and I have no issues. Just make sure you code them in right and you are good to go. I have seen several guys do it..never heard of a single person that had any issues.

[Luper52]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

Bmw states that index 11 and up cant be mixed w less than 11 (in a bank). What do they know?
All of mine are less than 11, in fact most are index 1 and few are 9 bank2 iirc. Mix n match. Were purchased low milage USED from ebay

I've owned my N54 for the past 40k miles and at least in that time it's had at least one index 12 mixed with various other indexes. Runs fine. I also came to find out the spark plugs are NGK one step colder. I never would have noticed either had I not looked just out of curiosity.

[Shoooter_j]

Another data point for you guys - I’ve run my Index 12 on cyl1 for around 12k miles with what I believed to be Index 1’s for the rest. When diagnosing a leaky injector in cyl6 and chancing the aforementioned ebay injectors (prev post in this thread) that didn’t work out, it was to my surprise that cyl6 was an Index 9.

So now running 1 Index 12 in each bank (cyl 1 and 6) with Index 1’s with no issues for the last 1200 miles.

[Sgop335]

These anecdotal experiences are good to hear. Technically if bmw claims that the calib are diff for index 11 and up, when they are peperred in a bank w others, it is hard to pinpoint how the cylinder is doing since fuel trims and lamda are per bank.
So to keep the lamda banks happy when the fuel trims are adjusted, the injectors w diff calib may run lean or rich. Theres nothing one can do. If itis within few percent no biggie but if the calib is off 10% or so, it is basically masked by the other injectors in the bank, again since fuel trims are per bank. Guess that is why bmw cares about “similar” injectors per bank. Some of this may not even be captured by a log since the only cylinder specific is knock. Most others are per bank.
Then comes the point if the car is stressed or puttering along. All this probably has no relevance to lightly driven w a glory log once in a while. My poor 335i runs 11s and is stressed frequently w many acceleration runs. It misfires if not treated right lol. Worse i could cause other issues. So I would be a hesitant in my case.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Sgop335

These anecdotal experiences are good to hear. Technically if bmw claims that the calib are diff for index 11 and up, when they are peperred in a bank w others, it is hard to pinpoint how the cylinder is doing since fuel trims and lamda are per bank.
So to keep the lamda banks happy when the fuel trims are adjusted, the injectors w diff calib may run lean or rich. Theres nothing one can do. If itis within few percent no biggie but if the calib is off 10% or so, it is basically masked by the other injectors in the bank, again since fuel trims are per bank. Guess that is why bmw cares about "similar" injectors per bank. Some of this may not even be captured by a log since the only cylinder specific is knock. Most others are per bank.
Then comes the point if the car is stressed or puttering along. All this probably has no relevance to lightly driven w a glory log once in a while. My poor 335i runs 11s and is stressed frequently w many acceleration runs. It misfires if not treated right lol. Worse i could cause other issues. So I would be a hesitant in my case.

I have a question for anyone that has genuine injectors including 12s. Have you looked at the calibration values written on the injectors? Do the Index 12s have atypical values that could make them perform oddly when the DME tries to adjust fuel trims in a mixed bank?

[Luper52]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I have a question for anyone that has genuine injectors including 12s. Have you looked at the calibration values written on the injectors? Do the Index 12s have atypical values that could make them perform oddly when the DME tries to adjust fuel trims in a mixed bank?

I'm assuming this can be checked with MHD? I don't mind logging it tomorrow if so.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I have a question for anyone that has genuine injectors including 12s. Have you looked at the calibration values written on the injectors? Do the Index 12s have atypical values that could make them perform oddly when the DME tries to adjust fuel trims in a mixed bank?

Yeah, the 11s and 12s have the same typical calibration numbers that you need to code as usual but the issue is, and I think it's because of their different constructions, in the end there will be inheritably a percentage difference since it's built different. And you can't really code that into the car, it's just programmed to intake the calibration numbers of each injector.

But I guess that little difference isn't that of an issue if people are running good idk.

[iqraceworks]

Until someone actually has some data that shows an AFR issue when mixing Injectors....I'm going to say it's no big deal.

I'm running index 7's in one bank, and a 1,7,and 12 in the other. The AFR's on both banks are identical according to my logs. As long as you code the injectors in correctly (you need something like ProTool..MHD won't do it).....you are fine. Lots and lots of guys are running mixed injectors like that, and I have never...ever..ever read a report of anyone having issues.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by Luper52

I'm assuming this can be checked with MHD? I don't mind logging it tomorrow if so.

No...you need something like ProTool is read and code the injector values. MHD can't code injectors.

[Luper52]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

No...you need something like ProTool is read and code the injector values. MHD can't code injectors.

I have ProTool as well. Will look today

[Slade_]

Originally Posted by Wes335XI

When did the index 12 injectors come out? I thought I had the newest ones, as it was the only way I could hit my power goals without misfires. It was a huge issue early on. But I've also heard now overtime they will leak and cause more issues, a weird one being white smoke from a leaking injector. Which is something I may have in my rear bank.

Currently having this issue on my index 12s.

They were swapped into a new N54 and started leaking shortly after. The shop may not have installed them correctly or they were bad any way because I suspect they may have contributed to why the last owner spun a bearing.

Would installing a new coupler and o-rings remedy this? Or would I have to get new injectors?

Here’s a post I just made for more context:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1887499

[jzx_andy]

I would say the global semiconductor/electronics shortage is why we're seeing price hikes over the past year or so.

The current prices do suck, but I can guarantee you the cost of inflated injectors is far less money and labour than that of a proper DI delete controlled by a standalone. Used injectors are only good as a stop gap measure IMO - you're gonna have to pay one way or another eventually, whether it's index 12's, trial and error with used parts, or a heap on going PI-only.

[tej98]

Bringing this back up, but a recent price hike (it seems all the vendors) show them to be around $2644: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-13538616079kt

Anyone had luck with Bavarian Magazine? They seem to have the only reasonable rate on new index 12s: https://www.bavarianmagazine.com/pro...mw-13538616079

The drastic difference in price there kinda has me leaning towards the major vendors driving up the price due to supply shortages. Thoughts?

[R3dLeader]

$430 per injector on FCP and I don't see this getting better any time soon....

Man....I've seen the price of injectors nearly double in my short time owning an N54 (1 year).

[infinite_creations25]

Originally Posted by R3dLeader

$430 per injector on FCP and I don't see this getting better any time soon....

Man....I've seen the price of injectors nearly double in my short time owning an N54 (1 year).

yikes... at this rate, a set of injectors is going to cost more than the car itself