[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I posted that the OP should disclose that he got a free unit in exchange for PR. I've talked to him before in person. Does knowing this and saying that make me a scumbag?

Before that, I posted that you can't emulate the PID system in the PROcede when you only have 1 way control over the wastegate DC. Instead of anyone asking, "why?" or actually wanting to discuss tech, this turns into a crying session. Aren't we all adults here? Aren't we all trying to make our car faster and drive better?

Instead of asking me question and getting actual answers, why start with the drama?

Shiv

No one is trying to "emulate" the procede, but the JB3 has two way functionality over the solenoids. The only hardware limitation is with running less boost than stock. The JB3 can only run around 2psi less than stock, while I imagine the V3 could run zero boost.

Mike

[fizzle]

listen shiv is the master of the n54 so apparently anything anyone makes is shivs design. God even the n54 is shivs design. you know what? i think shiv owns BMW. hell he might be God.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by fizzle

listen shiv is the master of the n54 so apparently anything anyone makes is shivs design. God even the n54 is shivs design. you know what? i think shiv owns BMW. hell he might be God.

Actually, I find your comments way more annoying than Shiv.

[J.P.]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Actually, I find your comments way more annoying than Shiv.

+1

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

No one is trying to "emulate" the procede, but the JB3 has two way functionality over the solenoids. The only hardware limitation is with running less boost than stock. The JB3 can only run around 2psi less than stock, while I imagine the V3 could run zero boost.

Mike

Mike,
Can the JB3 reduce the wastegate duty cycle? No. It can only increase it. So it does NOT have two-way control.

What you refer to as being able to reduce boost by 2psi is a function of the factory boost control system. If you increase the MAP signal instead of decrease it, the DME will target a lower effective boost pressure. Which is achievable, to a small degree (1-2psi) until the wastegate DC drops below the min allowable value.

You are misrepresenting what the JB3 is capable of. Either you are posting misleading info that has been provided to you by Terry. Or its coming from you and you don't have a strong understanding of the tech at hand.

Shiv

[ultimateendz]

MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.P.]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Mike,
Can the JB3 reduce the wastegate duty cycle? No. It can only increase it. So it does NOT have two-way control.

What you refer to as being able to reduce boost by 2psi is a function of the factory boost control system. If you increase the MAP signal instead of decrease it, the DME will target a lower effective boost pressure. Which is achievable, to a small degree (1-2psi) until the wastegate DC drops below the min allowable value.

You are misrepresenting what the JB3 is capable of. Either you are posting misleading info that has been provided to you by Terry. Or its coming from you and you don't have a strong understanding of the tech at hand.

Shiv

I don't understand a fucking thing you just said, but it sounds legit!

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Just have to say again, 1.3 should be called 2.0, it's a very big change. I honestly didn't tell that much of a difference with 1.22, didn't think it deserved the hype, but this new firmware is great. It pulls and pulls with no lumpiness in the power delivery. Biggest change since going to the JB3. Some more changes in the pipeline before it's ready for public consumption, just going to be that much better

I beta tested 1.22 and found what you say to be generally true except for map#6.

It was definitely different and represented much more mid range power and a lag-fix that was very noticeable off the line.

I remember posting that map #6 was going to be a definite winner and sure enough, most JB customers agreed.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Mike,
Can the JB3 reduce the wastegate duty cycle? No. It can only increase it. So it does NOT have two-way control.

What you refer to as being able to reduce boost by 2psi is a function of the factory boost control system. If you increase the MAP signal instead of decrease it, the DME will target a lower effective boost pressure. Which is achievable, to a small degree (1-2psi) until the wastegate DC drops below the min allowable value.

You are misrepresenting what the JB3 is capable of. Either you are posting misleading info that has been provided to you by Terry. Or its coming from you and you don't have a strong understanding of the tech at hand.

Shiv

The JB3 increases the wastegate DC and just as easily reduces it. 0% is the factory DC and 100% would be 100%. There is no reason to ever run less than the factory DC, but that can be achieved by offsetting a static amount and letting the ECU learn out that offset.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

Enough drama...So why? and how do you know that the jb3 is trying to copy this system?

Because Terry said so. He is trying to address the throttle closure issue that we address earlier with our Torque Targeting logic. First, he said it was complete BS and nothing more than a marketing driven "placebo". Then when that didn't work, he poo-pooed it by saying how dangerous it was and that he doesn't agree with it. When that stopped working, he played the fear card and knowingly spread misinformation about how it interferes with factory safety strategies which is completely nonsense. All the while selling 1.22 chips to unwitting customers who believed they were getting a issue-free tune. Only to later disclose there were shortcomings that were to be to be corrected with a brand new chip (1.3) which was under development while 1.22 was selling.

Same goes for the closed loop PID system is is trying to implement right now. What he is trying to emulate right now is what we've had implemented since v3 came out last year. Of course, he initially claimed that it was a dangerous "band aid" which, to this day, I still don't get. Now he's trying to implement it in platform that doesn't isolate input DC from output DC. Which is like software filtering intercooler pipe pressure provide a psuedo-boost pressure signal. Oh wait... he's doing that to and no one will figure it out until the shortcomings are brought up weeks/months from now.

I'm pretty well versed at the tech behind all this. So I'm not easily swayed by the marketing bullshit that runs so rampant in this forum by those who have something to gain (free parts, commission, etc,.) I'm not exactly unbaised/unmotivated myself but I do a pretty good job of trying to keep things factual.

shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The JB3 increases the wastegate DC and just as easily reduces it. 0% is the factory DC and 100% would be 100%. There is no reason to ever run less than the factory DC, but that can be achieved by offsetting a static amount and letting the ECU learn out that offset.

Mike

Seriously Mike. Do you know what you just wrote? And how little sense it makes?

shiv

[runningman]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Seriously Mike. Do you know what you just wrote? And how little sense it makes?

shiv

I think a professional would reply with his counter argument rather the insult above. Actually a professional would not be digging around in threads like this. He would be improving his product, like fixing the knocking your customers are experiencing and posting about in the "V3 vs JB3 Road Test" thread.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by runningman

I think a professional would reply with his counter argument rather the insult above. Actually a professional would not be digging around in threads like this. He would be improving his product, like fixing the knocking your customers are experiencing and posting about in the "V3 vs JB3 Road Test" thread.

While I don't think I was insulting him, I don't take well to people purposely posting misinformation. Whether it's a manufacturer or a dealer. I think the community (the people spending the actual $) deserves more than that.

shiv

PS. My suggestion for the knocking customer was to run premium fuel. And it worked.

[SfValley335i]

FWIW

I've yet to see Terry implement something into his JB3 that has not already been done by Vishnu. I think its pretty obvious that terry for the lack of a better word 'copies' Shiv's features.

Terry seems to be 2-6 months behind Shiv in releasing new features.

Examples:

Shiv was working on a meth map... a few days/weeks later Terry says hes beginning to work with meth.

Same goes for 'lag fix'...

I dont think its wrong to copy, but we must give credit to shiv even if Terry wont admit it. Without Shiv's work your JB3 would still be v1.0...


Wow nlakind got a FREE jb3? Damn I'm pissed... I had to pay Terry $300.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

FWIW

I've yet to see Terry implement something into his JB3 that has not already been done by Vishnu. I think its pretty obvious that terry for the lack of a better word 'copies' Shiv's features.

Terry seems to be 2-6 months behind Shiv in releasing new features.

Examples:

Shiv was working on a meth map... a few days/weeks later Terry says hes beginning to work with meth.

Same goes for 'lag fix'...

I dont think its wrong to copy, but we must give credit to shiv even if Terry wont admit it. Without Shiv's work your JB3 would still be v1.0...


Wow nlakind got a FREE jb3? Damn I'm pissed... I had to pay Terry $300.

Competition breeds innovation. Where do you think the Proceed would be without Terry.

Competition is great for the end user. This Tuner war crap and trolling of JB threads by Shiv is not!

Mike

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Competition breeds innovation. Where do you think the Proceed would be without Terry.

Competition is great for the end user. This Tuner war crap and trolling of JB threads by Shiv is not!

Mike

Shiv has always put in work on his product always trying to make it better since Procede v1... well before even Terry came about. I'd say its safe to say Shiv would still be pushing the envelope even if the JB3 wasnt around.

But I couldnt say the same thing about Terry. In all other cases, competition does breed innovation.


It seems to me that this Jb3 1.3 update or PID/WG update is for better driveability or throttle response and even for the up coming turbo upgrades.

Nonetheless, both Shiv and Terry are great guys, I dont see how anyone that knows them or has met them could call them "scums" etc.

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by ultimateendz

MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Inserts crappy techno song

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Shiv has always put in work on his product always trying to make it better since Procede v1... well before even Terry came about. I'd say its safe to say Shiv would still be pushing the envelope even if the JB3 wasnt around.

But I couldnt say the same thing about Terry. In all other cases, competition does breed innovation.


It seems to me that this Jb3 1.3 update or PID/WG update is for better driveability or throttle response and even for the up coming turbo upgrades.

Nonetheless, both Shiv and Terry are great guys, I dont see how anyone that knows them or has met them could call them "scums" etc.

You are right, he would have continued development of the procede, but if you think that he would to be level that he has so far without BMS pushing him and vice versa, you are mistaken. You'd also still be paying exorbitant upgrade pricing as well as over $1k for the units in question. Everybody was ecstatic to pay 1300-1500 bucks, or whatever it was, for 1.3 and then I got a $100 dollar JB2H which equaled it's performance. That setup was poo-poo'd by vishnu for a host of "tech" reasons in relation to the procede, and now they have their own unit which does not even bias 02 voltage and makes as much or more power...and of course is completely safe. Times change. Competition is good. I'm glad for both of them. Flashing soon

Tuners can piss and moan about who did what first, etc, etc but in the end we as the customers win regardless...and frankly that's what I care about.

[J.P.]

Originally Posted by SfValley335i

Shiv has always put in work on his product always trying to make it better since Procede v1... well before even Terry came about. I'd say its safe to say Shiv would still be pushing the envelope even if the JB3 wasnt around.

But I couldnt say the same thing about Terry. In all other cases, competition does breed innovation.


It seems to me that this Jb3 1.3 update or PID/WG update is for better driveability or throttle response and even for the up coming turbo upgrades.

Nonetheless, both Shiv and Terry are great guys, I dont see how anyone that knows them or has met them could call them "scums" etc.

Calling Shiv a scumbag is flat out classless and out of line.
Same goes with calling Terry a scumbag.

[2point3]

As normal the obvious conclusion is apparently a given tune has not been moving as well as its competition is unit sales and on the track. Again this tune will not gain any sales due to the owners lack of charisma even with the new impressive features.

[bubbletea 4 me]

so again, JB3 related thread is down the shit hole. can we just have a thread without all the bickering and shit? oh wait, i guess that's not possible here on e90 anymore. guess it's time to check out N54tech.com for some JB related updates/reviews.

i dont give a rats ass about what the fan boys think nor what each vendor has to say. i want to know how the 1.3 performs, that's it. and that's what this thread should be about and not "my tune is better than urs", "u copy me, no u copy me..", "my dick is bigger than urs".. all just crap to me. whether 1.3 performs similar, worse, or better than proceed... i'll find that out for myself when the production run comes out but for now, i just want to read about how 1.3 performs overall and how it comes to 1.22 and whatnot. let's stay on topic for once, ok?

[i2iSTUDIOS]

I've been really happy with my JB3