[StewtheBassman]

It's dishonest to join forum and start a controversial thread with only two posts. I bet he has done this on every forum too....Audi Mazda Honda etc...

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by StewtheBassman

It's dishonest to join forum and start a controversial thread with only two posts. I bet he has done this on every forum too....Audi Mazda Honda etc...

lol because mazda and honda are so similar to bmw and audi

eh, whatevs

[Vinobien]

I sent ///MML a PM and told him I would send over my Uncle Joey if he made another post. None of you want to meet my Uncle Joey!

[SROC3]

to each his own really........you make a choice and stick by it - it does NOT, however, give you an excuse for "barking" at people who did not go your way.

One thing that should be considered is that the MOST successful car companies actually benefit from the "tuning" world. It is in this "shadow-world" that new and better developments take place - because car companies do not want to push the reliability envelope. BMW did NOT create the 335i and expect that it was powerful enough not to be tuned further. PLEASE.

Your E46 (from the factory) came about from the the evolution of the 3 series from one generation to the next - each successive one improving from the "in-between" stages of people (outside of BMW R&D) modifying the cars. Think about how much you love your car now.....and know that it exists because people did not settle for what was sufficient at the time, but decided to make something better.

So, in conclusion, are we cheating? are we "fooling" BMW? I'd say, we're all contributing to making future versions of this car a better, faster, and more "consumer-made" automobile.

As for Vishnu Performance - They rock, they rock, they rock. Dedication has made them who they are today. That's innovation.

[longtran]

what a joke. this reminded me of the time i went to the dealer to ask about wheel sensors for the e92. i told them i was looking to buy some sensor so i can put them on some aftermarket wheels. to my right i hear this voice said "aftermarket wheels huh?, you are asking for trouble" i turn around and saw this old stuck looking man. he have the nerve to repeat it. i said " what the fuck do you know" got my sensors and left.

[BIGWILL]

Damn 4 pages is enough!!! we mod our cars get over it and stop lurking just enjoy the german technology with a little twist

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

I sent ///MML a PM and told him I would send over my Uncle Joey if he made another post. None of you want to meet my Uncle Joey!

hes that ugly

maybe my uncle vinny and ur uncle joey can duke it out

[StewtheBassman]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

lol because mazda and honda are so similar to bmw and audi

eh, whatevs

whatever you can think of LOL!

[ward]

if I use the C word for a womans private parts can I get this thread closed???

[Backattack]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

PROPER WOT?
thats simple, u have to treat the car as a car with a turbo, specifically allowing a cool off period, installing a turbo timer and the like. theres no issues STEPPING on the car, u just have to treat it correctly after.

the point u make about the stock car lasting longer, it might but only marginally. again i point out that there are plenty of chipped cars with over 100k miles on it, if treated properly the car will last. on the reliabilty, please remeber that stock cars and turbos have failed. ur undeniable certainty is questionable because of the track record of the car so far. but a modified car is a modified car, ur aftermarket components can break, this is not unheard of.

the point i was making is the "damage" tuning would do is MIN; and its going to be hard to disprove that fact. reservations about warranty and the like are again min. why? because the increase in boost is so little that one could call into question the "damage" it would cause.

damage to a modified car usually comes from the user rather than the tuning. thrash a 335i and tuned or not it will break because it has a turbo and it need to be treated with respect.

Someone needs to quantify respect... Formula 1 cars are treated with respect, but I don't think any drivers or teams use one engine for more than a season? And those engines are treated with a TEAM of mechanical surgeons, and I think with great respect and loving care...... LOL!

Bottom line, all engines have a MTF-Mean Time to Failure, or something like that. Turbos do too. If you produce more boost from a turbo by spooling it up more it will fail sooner, PERIOD. If you drive the car like you REALLY want to every day, a modded car will not last longer; I have a hard time believing that BMW hasn't put a large margin of safety when they build their cars... hence the 50K mile warranty on a vehicle you can CRUSH with your right foot on a regular basis... You see DOUBLE the warranty on an Mitsubishi EVO but there is a clause where if they catch or prove that you raced the car--to bad, so sad, warranty gone! I've never seen that type of clause on BMW. Sure if you drive like a PU$$Y i.e. "respect" your car it will respect you, LOL!

[Backattack]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

Undeniable certainty. ok, what is the failure mechanism that will occur as a result of the Vishnu mod.

We don't need a mechanical engineer to show that EVERY turbo will fail after a certain number of hours under a certain load. Increase time, load, or temp. you will get a failure sooner. Now I'm not saying this will happen in the first 50 or 75K miles... If you drive your car like shiv does in his videos all the time you will get that failure sooner. Probably at 80-100k miles... Knowing BMW that's when the extended Certified used car warranty expires, and I'm sure that a stock car will take it to 100-120k miles w/out . XEDE. You know the part that bothers me the most about XEDE is the GREY area where it's ALL GOOD, and NO BAD. There must be a few people on this forum that have some common sense and realize that something somewhere pays the price for this performance gain. If XEDE proves all good, I'll be the first to get it, but I won't be driving around with it on all the time. I had an M5 and when you drive it all the time you start to get desensitized to the performance... I know Shiv knows what I'm talking about... I'm sure he's the first to tell you that his 996 kicks the $hit out of a 335 modded...

[Backattack]

Originally Posted by Vinobien

I sent ///MML a PM and told him I would send over my Uncle Joey if he made another post. None of you want to meet my Uncle Joey!

Is he dating that girl on your avatar? Then F-NO!

[schneid4323]

ok this is the dumbest argument I have ever heard, but it is funny as shit what his reasons are

This really reminded me of something that PETA said, has about as many holes (lol PETA)

For the hell of it, some holes in the PETA argument
"In his book Animal Liberation, Peter Singer states that the basic principle of equality does not require equal or identical treatment; it requires equal consideration. This is an important distinction when talking about animal rights. People often ask if animals should have rights, and quite simply, the answer is “Yes!” Animals surely deserve to live their lives free from suffering and exploitation[Just wanna name some carnivores, lions, panthers, humans well hell dont they all rely on meat and, maybe, the food chain(incase you need an explination of what the food chain is, its put down as basic and child freindly as possible.)]. Jeremy Bentham, the founder of the reforming utilitarian school of moral philosophy, stated that when deciding on a being’s rights, “The question is not ‘Can they reason?’ nor ‘Can they talk?’ but ‘Can they suffer?’”[Mountain Lion>Buffalo, Mountain Lion eat buffalo, Mountain Lion relies on buffalo to survive, Humans = Mountain Lion, Cow = Buffalo, in the case of guns and such, according to Darwin all spieces evolve and adjust to their surrondings based on their needs fortunatly humans are able to communicate, unlike animals (just incase you belive the talking pig Babe is real) and communication allowed us to create technology (Posible thumbs help too) so its just a form of evolution] In that passage, Bentham points to the capacity for suffering as the vital characteristic that gives a being the right to equal consideration[Where was PETA durring the holocaust? and incase you don't know what the holocaust was]. The capacity for suffering is not just another characteristic like the capacity for language or higher mathematics[The average lifespan of a dog is about 7 years, we are about 72 im pretty sure that thats enough of a difference to make humans more important 72>7]. All animals have the ability to suffer in the same way and to the same degree that humans do[Animals cannot communicate, emotional suffering is not impossible but lessend because of this (ever had a girlfriend? animals do anything in heat, no marrige or relationships (There is alot more products when you change a multiple] They feel pain, pleasure, fear, frustration, loneliness, and motherly love. Whenever we consider doing something that would interfere with their needs, we are morally obligated to take them into account.[I highly doubt that lions are spossed to go extinct to save the live one, of a heavy populated speices, elk, Extinction, humans use meat, even red meat for many nutrients that help us, lets imagine the black death without a heavy source of protein pretty hard to fight a plague without a storng immune system]

Supporters of animal rights believe that animals have an inherent worth—a value completely separate from their usefulness to humans [I agree, we have no reason to kill the animals at the bottom of the sea which is why we don't]. We believe that every creature with a will to live has a right to live free from pain and suffering. [They do it to each other in a human-free environment too]. Animal rights is not just a philosophy—it is a social movement that challenges society’s traditional view that all nonhuman animals exist solely for human use [I agree, cow manuare is great fertilzation]. As PETA founder Ingrid Newkirk has said, “When it comes to pain, love, joy, loneliness, and fear, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. Each one values his or her life and fights the knife.”[survival of the fittest is a great topic]

Only prejudice allows us to deny others the rights that we expect to have for ourselves. Whether it’s based on race, gender, sexual orientation, or species, prejudice is morally unacceptable[prejudice, wow I never knew that we killed so many animals out of hatred for their existance]. If you wouldn’t eat a dog, why eat a pig? Dogs and pigs have the same capacity to feel pain, but it is prejudice based on species that allows us to think of one animal as a companion and the other as dinner."[Im just guessing dogs don't taste good, and the chinesse eat dogs...]

Now for ///MML's argument (even better)

"I have been a lurker on these forums for a while and following the 335's potential capability[This says nothing, proves nothing, or gives you credibility, I would really love to know your experiance with the mechanical side of a turbo'd engine]. As you guys are aware turbo cars give lots of options to build on [And so does BMW, hence their "experimentation" with twin-turbos]. I have been following Shiv's updates and it looks impressive, however, I don't know him or am familiar with his past car work.

Ok,where an I going with this.... I must admit I am very suprisied by the level of dishonesty people are willing to tolarate for the sake of money[Im increddibly worried that the multi-million dollar company BMW doesn't account for this before they market the car (sarcasim) weither you buy a Honda Civic or a 335i they both compensate for this, no way out of it]. Everyone knows BMW will void your warranty for doing modifications (which is their right) since you voluntarly buy the car and agree to the terms. I am amazed that nearly everyone doing Shiv's mod are willing to do whatever it takes to hide this from BMW if there is a problem with their car[If the problem is not related to the software, such as the A/C compressor breaking, then why the hell should someone who has the software have to pay for it?]. The question is why?

Life is a zero sum game guys, somebody pays no matter what[Somebody needs to take an economics course]. In fact we all pay since BMW must recoupe all costs and turn a profit. So if your car blows up we all pay the cost one way or the other[Im pretty sure neither my warrenty or my insurance pays for cars blowing up due to work done on them (un-certified aftermarket work)]. So why do the rest of us need to pay for your mod? Well we shouldn't [280,186 vehicles, 15,000 dinan mods sold a year, ill say about 4 times the amount of aftermarket work isn't Dinan so lets get a ballpark guess, so around 75000 have mods in them even if half, TOTALLY OVER THE REAL AMMOUNT, blow up because of it estimating the average cost to replace one at 60g to make you happy 2,250,000,000 is arround 8g's per car assuming that BMW pays for ALL of them and that 1/2 of the modded BMW's blow up or are still within warrenty, so a realistic figure would be about $200, which is still out there is a third of a percent of the cost of your 60g car]. I know what your thinking, prove the mod caused it? This is a flase arguement as you changed the probability of error with the mod [You must not gamble do you? then you would understand risk vs gain]. This makes it your responsibility to find out the true cause, not just BMW. I realize BMW is no angel when it come to proving fault. I drive a e46 M3 and when motors were blowing due to a oil problem they blamed the customer at first but eventually made it right.[I just want to point out that your last two sentences are completely worthless]

Many of you have bought shiv's mod want to be anonymous for fear of BMW finding out[Anonymous credit card purchases? Shiv has anyone paid 3g's in cash?]. Well I hate to tell you all information is public and they can find out if they want to, so don't fool yourself [Yeah BMW does alot of reasearch on it's clients purchases (more sarcasim)]. They can take you to court an if you continue to lie then you get into perjury and felony charges, sounds like fun uh [Im pretty sure no one is dumb enough to deny the mod if BMW found out about it and they simply say, "Not gonna happen" if they find it when they look for the cause of the problem, also I would like to know what legal education you have just for more credibility issues]? For those of you who lease, you must sign a statement when you turn the car in saying you didn't mod the car. So don't think your getting away with something " not my car, it's leased".[If you modify a leased car then you pay for the car, not BMW]

I guess my last point is that if Shiv truely believed in his product he would warranty it like all upstanding manufactures [If you're buying the product you're taking any risks it comes with, which we all understand]. Nowhere have I read that he provides a warranty for probelms that his product creates [Have you seen any problems it has created yet? and why would he warrenty it if the car has the avalibility to be driven hard or soft, ofcourse red lining it, all day and night, with any after-aftermarket mods the motor is stressed more unless driven correctly in some cases, like the cooler opperating temperature Shiv's software offers, help the motor last longer and run better]. I heard alot about great customer sevice but if it blows will he pay the $10k for a new motor? [Whey should he half to? isn't it the users fault for installing the mod?] I doubt it.... This is not to say Shiv is not a good person I'm just pointing out a common cause and effect fact.

Finally, I hope this didn't come across "holyier than thou" but just wanted point out some concerning attitudes amongst people who probably would be considered upstanding [With the kind of additude just in this sentence I get the vibes of a jerk-off]. If you owned a car business how your you feel if somebody was trying to trick you, probably not to good[Yeah darn I'd be really upset owning a multi-million dollar corperation,(deffinatly loosing 60g's is gonna destroy the company or affect anyones wages in more then a billionth of a penny) by the way BMW does moddify their own cars and blow their own motors for the sake of F1 and such]. For all of you who are fortunate to drive a $50k car don't try to cheat the system [You must be a Karl Marx fan]. Karma is a b*tch.

Good luck gentlemen..."

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by schneid4323

If you owned a car business how your you feel if somebody was trying to trick you, probably not to good[Yeah darn I'd be really upset owning a multi-million dollar corperation,(deffinatly loosing 60g's is gonna destroy the company or affect anyones wages in more then a billionth of a penny) by the way BMW does moddify their own cars and blow their own motors for the sake of F1 and such]

This is probably your only point that I don't really follow. Based on this, it seems like you are saying the fact a company is big justifies stealing from it?

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by ac2

335i does come with an oil cooler.

Excellent! Then it will be that much easier to replace it with a bigger one to deal with the extra power and track use. Thanks for finding that -- very helpful to all of us here. All XEDE customers, are you reading? Hot oil (> +120 C or 250 F) = bad for engine longevity. It you are going to get the XEDE and run the car hard or in hot weather, spend the extra $$ ($500 max) and replace the current oil cooler with a bigger one.

Shiv, based upon the oil temps I saw in your car you might want to make this part of the stage 0 and/or 1 kit. Piece of cake since it already has one!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

Shiv, based upon the oil temps I saw in your car you might want to make this part of the stage 0 and/or 1 kit. Piece of cake since it already has one!

My coolant and oil temp ranges has remained unchanged from when the car was bone stock so I'm hesitant to fix something that isn't broken. Those doing regular track days could very well benefit from a larger oil cooler and perhaps even an upgraded radiator. But for a street car that sees max load for less than 10 seconds at a time, such upgrades may not be warranted.

That said, one thing I've been wanting to do for some time is actually hook up a proper aftermarket oil temp gauge and see just how accurate the factory gauge is. For all we know, an 250F as indicated on the factory dash gauge may be actually be 230F. Factory guages are rarely accurate.

-shiv

[335Black]

Well this is my first post and I work at a dealership in the Service Department even...most issues we have here we look at obvious signs of abuse on the cars...tires worn down to cords, rubber in the fender wells, clutches destroyed in short periods of time, fart cans/cold air pipes/etc, I have only seen one case where any information was pulled from a computer to verify driving conditions...my buddys old M-3 when he tore the head up which only happened to those cars under careless driving conditions.
We the people at the dealerships do these things to our cars!!!
I can't believe this thread has gone this far...
Anyway I have had my car for one week and I LOVE it!!!
Wish there was some way I could use our equipment to flash the car!!!

[geoff2010]

Originally Posted by 335Black

Well this is my first post and I work at a dealership in the Service Department even...most issues we have here we look at obvious signs of abuse on the cars...tires worn down to cords, rubber in the fender wells, clutches destroyed in short periods of time, fart cans/cold air pipes/etc, I have only seen one case where any information was pulled from a computer to verify driving conditions...my buddys old M-3 when he tore the head up which only happened to those cars under careless driving conditions.
We the people at the dealerships do these things to our cars!!!
I can't believe this thread has gone this far...
Anyway I have had my car for one week and I LOVE it!!!
Wish there was some way I could use our equipment to flash the car!!!

It is hard to understand what you are actually saying here. Do the service guys condone modding of cars and generally look the other way if they see something, or are you always trying to figure out if someone has done something which could potentially void a warranty?

[335Black]

I am just saying that most of the time we don't go on a witch hunt trying to find mods on a car...if the car shows signs of abuse then we say no warranty...but even then I have seen alot of stuff covered with enough complaining.
Say you bring in your car at 5000 miles and your clutch is toasted or the engine knocking and I see that your tires are bald, chances are you are gonna be swinging when it comes to repairs. Are most techs gonna be looking for a black box wired into the car...NO. Are most gonna know if it's an alarm, a boost controller, an ipod adapter...NO.
It's the people that downright abuse their cars and try to get away with it...no I never race, no I never roast the tires, my kid would never drive like that.
I have several customers who take their cars (M3's and 545's) on the road courses and are very open about what they do.
I am only trying to say that if you are not abusing the car you have nothing to worry about, no one at my shop has even heard about this modification...until I said I was thinking about it!!!

[hemi to e90]

look turbos get hot, im saying to prevent damage that would be unneccassary, cool it down the last 2-5 miles from home, or let it idle when the car is turned off, or install a turbo timer. Also Break-in on the car should be extended and followed to the T, on the car. personally im gonna stay off the throttle till ~2000 miles

and the point is that this is a high performance car, but if u drive it at 10/10ths 24/7 dont be suprised when the car goes boom.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Thanks for the input in your posts 335Black. I'm sure every service department's criteria could vary slightly from one another, but how much of a factor is rubber in the fender well when it comes to warranty services or maintenance? I don't do burnouts, drifting events or even very aggressive stationary launches. However I do plan on taking the car to a track day for a performance driving school with an instructor so rubber will be in my fender wells with hard cornering exercises. I'd like to think that I don't "abuse" the car but obviously I will be running it aggressively especially if I'm able to get a real good hot session in. How does your service department handle situations such as mine. I know I'm not being specific as to what type of service I need after this, but lets say premature brake pad/roto wear, oil cooler failure, engine throwing on some sort of malfunction light...etc.

And I will not be running my car with any engine performance modifications, it will be completely stock other than maybe having a different set of wheels with tires since I'm not a fan of RFTs.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by BoLaS

(there has already been a case of a members 335i motor blowing and that was before the XEDE had even been implemented on ANY 335i ....if u want more info on that

Your statement said it all. One bmw (Search for BenMW) might have had a blown engine. So what does that say about adding XEDE to a brand new twinturbo engine. True, one bad apple does not make the bunch bad. Give the dude some slack, he is just pointing out some of his concerns.

I am not a hater, everyone has the right to their opinion and there are lots of valid points on both side.