[Moderato]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

I'm full aware of the extra torque, but how is it going to put all those gobs of torque out of a corner exit? With its electronic LSD aka DTC?!

Originally Posted by Weedo

When you get your 335 to a track, you'll see how easy is...

I haven't had the pleasure of driving the 335i yet, but this is an issue I've been wondering about as well. I had no problem getting the open rear diff spinning one wheel with my 04 330i with it's measly 220 ft/lbs of TQ and I didn't really care for the DSC brake the spinning wheel thing. You can really feel how much more sure footed the M3 is with it's LSD vs. the 330i. Did they make some kind of an improvement to the suspension or DSC of the 335i to make this problem transparent? I remember seeing that one promo video of the 335i and that thing was spinning one wheel around every corner, it didn't look that great to me. I'm sure the E92 M3 will get an LSD but then again the 997S & 4S get open diffs with EDL, but then again the 997 GT3 & TT get real LSD's. It seems that both BMW & Porsche choose to outfit their "everyday" cars with open diffs & EDL, but put real LSD's on their top performing models. It does seem like no matter how good the open diff and EDL can be, it's not as ideal as an LSD.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Originally Posted by Moderato

Oh, I get it now. So before I'm able to have an opinion on Mozart I have to be able to play the Sonate fur Klavier D-dur, KV283 by rote, right?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I believe his point is sometimes getting an opinion from a person who does not have a true understanding of a particular subject is not always an accurate opinion or one that should be taken seriously. Because anyone can post virtually anything on the web nowadays, it's always good to be cautious when gathering information.

[Moderato]

Originally Posted by 2007/335i/coupe

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I believe his point is sometimes getting an opinion from a person who does not have a true understanding of a particular subject is not always an accurate opinion or one that should be taken seriously. Because anyone can post virtually anything on the web nowadays, it's always good to be cautious when gathering information.

Nothing I said in this thread required expert testimony to validate any opinions I gave. Some people in these threads should spend more time reading what people actually write and spend less time trying to make themselves look smarter then everyone else.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Originally Posted by Moderato

Nothing I said in this thread required expert testimony to validate any opinions I gave. Some people in these threads should spend more time reading what people actually write and spend less time trying to make themselves look smarter then everyone else.

Agreed, and I'm just seeing both sides of the argument since sometimes I get frustrated trying to gather information only to eventually find out that it came from dubious sources. Because we are just typing away and replying to posts, it's always difficult if not sometimes impossible to convey everything on your mind. It's not like having a conversation where questions can quickly be answered. Your comment about the 430 being slow and should be faster does depend on the track as we all know. I must have missed the track layout, but for folks who can't quite comprehend this, tracks with slow to mid speed turns that also doesn't have long straight aways will not favor a car like the 430.

[Moderato]

Originally Posted by 2007/335i/coupe

Your comment about the 430 being slow and should be faster does depend on the track as we all know. I must have missed the track layout, but for folks who can't quite comprehend this, tracks with slow to mid speed turns that also doesn't have long straight aways will not favor a car like the 430.

I did jump to conclusions when I made that comment. I got so hung up on the times that were posted that my mind immediately said, "impossible." Unfortunately my emotion upon reading these numbers clouded my judgment as I initially over looked something so obvious as the track length and layout. I believe in my subsequent posts I addressed and corrected myself on that. I have to attribute this error to my brain's ability to think so fast and so far ahead that I momentarily forget where I am. Was it Einstein who couldn't remember where he lived or what his phone number was? I believe myself to have a similar problem. Now if you'll excuse me I have to come up with some solutions to problems we are having at NASA with the Martian Space-station prototype.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Please make sure you keep our astronauts safe!

[Weedo]

Originally Posted by Moderato

I haven't had the pleasure of driving the 335i yet, but this is an issue I've been wondering about as well. I had no problem getting the open rear diff spinning one wheel with my 04 330i with it's measly 220 ft/lbs of TQ and I didn't really care for the DSC brake the spinning wheel thing. You can really feel how much more sure footed the M3 is with it's LSD vs. the 330i. Did they make some kind of an improvement to the suspension or DSC of the 335i to make this problem transparent? I remember seeing that one promo video of the 335i and that thing was spinning one wheel around every corner, it didn't look that great to me. I'm sure the E92 M3 will get an LSD but then again the 997S & 4S get open diffs with EDL, but then again the 997 GT3 & TT get real LSD's. It seems that both BMW & Porsche choose to outfit their "everyday" cars with open diffs & EDL, but put real LSD's on their top performing models. It does seem like no matter how good the open diff and EDL can be, it's not as ideal as an LSD.

No, I agree with you that an LSD would definitely help. Coming around a corner in 1st gear I can get the inner wheels spinning more than I'd like. I haven't noticed this yet in 2nd gear although I would imagine with another 90 ft/lbs of torque the issue may be there. But quickly rolling on the throttle, the 335 has so much more power to pull away from many cars out there including the M3, 911, Evo, etc. (I'm talking about a 2nd gear corner for example, pulling from 2500-3000rpms). The good news is that the power never quites. Some of the higher strung motors/cars out there can't excelerate out of a corner having a lack of torque. Keep in mind you roll on the throttle around a track rather than hammer it halfway through the turn so the worry of the inner wheel spinning is much less.

[jacksonjw81]

Originally Posted by Panoz

LOL is this the only thing you noticed from this topic?

Very good post, I would have liked to see the Z06 of course.

[Panoz]

Comming soon

i) 0-160-0
ii)Track-map (spreed/curve)
iii) More pics

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by jacksonjw81

Very good post, I would have liked to see the Z06 of course.

Thanks mate...nice to hear that .
I thought that everyone were cussing me on this post

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Moderato

So then these numbers are complete B$. I mean let's face it, my wife's Outback is just as fast as a McLaren F1 around my BATHTUB. So what they do is compare these cars on a track which won't have a huge disparity in numbers, making the 335i seem like it's just as fast as an M3, STI, EVO, whatever. That's why I like to look at the Nurburgring times because it's hard to B$ the results with numbers there.

This was the post that showed to me a lack of track experience. You outright said the OP test is BS, and I called the flag on you.

I see you have now backed off your claims, and now are starting to understand how different track layouts can favor different characteristics. Perhaps you'll even understand how a 190 HP Elise can kick a 500+ HP exotic on a club track.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

This was the post that showed to me a lack of track experience. You outright said the OP test is BS, and I called the flag on you.

I see you have now backed off your claims, and now are starting to understand how different track layouts can favor different characteristics. Perhaps you'll even understand how a 190 HP Elise can kick a 500+ HP exotic on a club track.

The 335i isn't a sportscar, I don't care what the track layout is, if power is similar, the lighter car should have the advantage...especially on a road course.

[Panoz]

Call it as you like... The fact is that the 335i kicked some really BIG asses on this track.

All the rest are just "philosophies" to me

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by Panoz

Call it as you like... The fact is that the 335i kicked some really BIG asses on this track.

All the rest are just "physics" to me

Fixed.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Originally Posted by Panoz

Comming soon

i) 0-160-0
ii)Track-map (spreed/curve)
iii) More pics

Hook it up meng!

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by 2007/335i/coupe

Hook it up meng!

And an English translation of the article would be cool as well while we're begging

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

The 335i isn't a sportscar, I don't care what the track layout is, if power is similar, the lighter car should have the advantage...especially on a road course.

Agreed.

Now, since the lap times ARE similar, that tells me the weight/usable power/handling/braking characterstics of the 2 cars ARE also similar, or at least trade each other off in near equal amounts.

[Panoz]

Ok ...here you find the the track-map and the times between 335i ,new TT , 350Z (300Hp) & Alpha Romeo Brera

The first column on each table means
1st Column-> Total time
2nd Column->Speed while approaching curve
3rd Column ->Speed while exiting curve

and the last column on K5 ,S ,K10 & K13 is the "distance" (in meters) that each car drove from the beggining to the end of the specific curve as each car needed to be positioned differently in order to achieve maximum speed while turning.
-I hope the last explanation is comprehensive enough-

The picture quality is bad as i used digicam instead of scanner.

[sdiver68]

Pic is great, thanks!

It looks as though the 335's torque and HP ruled the day, notice how in almost every section the 335 takes up more track? It appears to like wider, classic racing arcs as opposed to the point-and-shoot style of say the 350Z, at least in this test.

This track layout reminds me of Gingerman!

[Moderato]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

This was the post that showed to me a lack of track experience. You outright said the OP test is BS, and I called the flag on you.

I see you have now backed off your claims, and now are starting to understand how different track layouts can favor different characteristics. Perhaps you'll even understand how a 190 HP Elise can kick a 500+ HP exotic on a club track.

There are so many things fundamentally wrong with this reply I don't even know where to start. First of all I'm still calling BS on this test, it's just that you don't seem to understand exactly what it is I'm calling BS about. Second, I don't appreciate you calling BS on "me" because there is no need to make this personal. If I feel this test is skewed in order to obtain a certain result then that is my right. Furthermore, you obviously either didn't fully read all my posts in this thread or comprehend them. You make accusations and assumptions about me based upon no conclusive factual evidence. In addition, your sarcasm is trite and misplaced. If you need to knock someone else down in order to build yourself up I suggest you pick an easier target. ZZZZZZZZZZ

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Moderato

There are so many things fundamentally wrong with this reply I don't even know where to start. First of all I'm still calling BS on this test, it's just that you don't seem to understand exactly what it is I'm calling BS about. Second, I don't appreciate you calling BS on "me" because there is no need to make this personal. If I feel this test is skewed in order to obtain a certain result then that is my right. Furthermore, you obviously either didn't fully read all my posts in this thread or comprehend them. You make accusations and assumptions about me based upon no conclusive factual evidence. In addition, your sarcasm is trite and misplaced. If you need to knock someone else down in order to build yourself up I suggest you pick an easier target. ZZZZZZZZZZ

Personally, I don't care to get in a pissing contest with you. I've made my point, others seeking info will now evaluate this thread accordingly.

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by Moderato

There are so many things fundamentally wrong with this reply I don't even know where to start. First of all I'm still calling BS on this test, it's just that you don't seem to understand exactly what it is I'm calling BS about. Second, I don't appreciate you calling BS on "me" because there is no need to make this personal. If I feel this test is skewed in order to obtain a certain result then that is my right. Furthermore, you obviously either didn't fully read all my posts in this thread or comprehend them. You make accusations and assumptions about me based upon no conclusive factual evidence. In addition, your sarcasm is trite and misplaced. If you need to knock someone else down in order to build yourself up I suggest you pick an easier target. ZZZZZZZZZZ

You just cant stand the thought that the 335i is performing better than m3 on the (this) track...thats your problem.
Its yor right to believe what you want but the numbers proves differently.