[jake@ardesign]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I don't know what is so incorrect with my statement about the standback. I understand that there's much flexibility and options. You adjust tables inputting desired values and the cpe responds accordingly. I think this is basically how v3 works, although v3 is very general input compared to cpe detailed interface. The problem, which all users have until v4, is that you are limited to those tables with some dme correction in timing if needed. say you tuned for 100deg and temps are 60deg... maybe you can change maps, but if you don't then you are stuck with 100deg tables. most likely this would mean lower boost, and/or excessive retarded timing. the reverse situation would not be good.

my statement on poopooing shiv came from some comments in the other thread and was an assumption only.... i am wrong, sorry.

no worries - your comments about 100* weather and 60* weather are still incorrect however - the car will run correctly no matter what temp it is. raining. snowing. sleeting. etc. please please please contact someone who knows the ecu before you keep making statements about it

[klipseracer]

I like boobies.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

I like boobies.

+1


Corrected or uncorrected, it don't matter to me!

[JoeyFiasco]

we're swaping turbos on boobies?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by jake@ardesign

no worries - your comments about 100* weather and 60* weather are still incorrect however - the car will run correctly no matter what temp it is. raining. snowing. sleeting. etc. please please please contact someone who knows the ecu before you keep making statements about it

from your statement I am assuming the cpe adds a correction to the ecu input... but the ecu reverses logic increasing boost with heat and decreasing with cold to keep power consistent. i guess i should read cpe site soon. Thanks!

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

Its not like oxygen is more afraid of outer space than nitrogen and clings to the earth.

This made me laugh.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

Less oxygen up higher in the atmosphere is because there is less pressure. But once the air is compressed to say 14 psi, the density of oxygen is still the same... Its not like oxygen is more afraid of outer space than nitrogen and clings to the earth. So assuming the turbos can compress the air, the density is the same. yeah, you lose efficiency in the turbo do to working harder, however this is not nearly as big of an effect on a big turbo which they are touting so highly. I'm glad they are showing results, and I highly doubt that they intend to over exaggerate their results as in time we will all know the truth and its much better to UNDERRATE your product than the other way around.

Us pilots refer to this as partial pressure of oxygen.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

Why doesn't Dynojet come up with a centralize formula. It should include (temp, altitude, etc) so no matter where in the world they dyno a vehicle, they can plug those surrounding elements in their dyno. This way, the result will be the same if I test a car at 60F at 50ft under seal level or 9500ft above seal level. We have sophisticated computers now-a-days, no reason there shouldn't be this in place. Should eliminate a lot of confusion in my opinion.

What I think you are asking is something a car manufacturer, or in this case, dyno maker, to come up with something that will be unique to each turbo setup.

If this were a standard aircraft built to be certified by the FAA, you would need to have appropriate calculations/charts to determine and factor take off distance, V speeds, Gross Take Off Weight (GTOW), landing weight, etc...for altitude and temperature. Also, how much fuel will be burned at specific weights and so forth.

But each aircraft is built to the exact same specifications for a particular model and is certified as such...so a reference can be made for these variances accurately.

For cars...when you throw a big turbo on a setup like the N54, and then somebody puts built twins like stock, then usese stock turbos etc...everything will change because each turbo/application is going to be unique. To come up with ever possibly options/combinations...well, that will never happen.

[scalbert]

Technically, there is a way to have a normalized correction factor. However, significantly more data would be needed which would essentially be impossible to gain on all engines.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by jake@ardesign

Shiv - I hope you don't mind if I post up - if so let me know. I don't want to step on any toes.
.....

We have talked with Shiv via PM and all is well. Everyone is happy. Its a great thing when vendors can get a long...good peoples over there behind the keyboard. Shiv just want to say thank you for being so rational with me I rarely find forum vendors that stay calm and rational with me when things get touchy so thank you!!

Ah the backroom deals... what backroom deals are you making behind closed doors?

This is I think UN-American, we want a repeal of these job-killing socialistic... oh wait, wrong forum, nevermind. Its election day guys, I digress.. toss those dim-o-crats, I mean reverse eh repugs out of office...

Can we all just get along?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

from your statement I am assuming the cpe adds a correction to the ecu input... but the ecu reverses logic increasing boost with heat and decreasing with cold to keep power consistent. i guess i should read cpe site soon. Thanks!

I have tried to stay out of this, but clearly these statements are simply not accurate. CPE uses standalone boost control. This is not the same boost control that the JB3 and V4 use, so the DME has no control whatsoever over what boost the car runs. That is one of the real attractive parts of this tune.

[adrian@vishnu]

What makes you think the V4 is not standalone. This is a key difference between B4 and V3... standalone or isolated boost control. We have the best of both worlds. We can either run offset boost control like V3, or isolated using the DME boost target for quicker boost response based upon DME targets, or we can run our own target completely divorced from the DME targets.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

What makes you think the V4 is not standalone. This is a key difference between B4 and V3... standalone or isolated boost control. We have the best of both worlds. We can either run offset boost control like V3, or isolated using the DME boost target for quicker boost response based upon DME targets, or we can run our own target completely divorced from the DME targets.

adrian, if that is indeed the case then I stand corrected. What I really was concerned about is this IAT boost decay "talk" listed in the poster I quoted.

[jake@ardesign]

Former - the standback and v4 use the same boost control setup. Like Adrian stated they can either play with the factory settings or completely independent boost control logic through PID settings. The independent boost control that the two companies use allow for much more stable and consistant boost. The decay mentioned is all through other tables that scale boost and fuel and timing based on intake temps and other factors that are adjusted for. Standard protocol when tuning a car

[cn555ic]

V4 is the strip down version that the end user gets, but I am sure Shiv has the full version which is IMO identical to Standback only difference standback gives the user the full version which I still think its a little too much for the average user..

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

V4 is the strip down version that the end user gets, but I am sure Shiv has the full version which is IMO identical to Standback only difference standback gives the user the full version which I still think its a little too much for the average user..

All these tunes have different things that make them appeal to certain people. I am not sure where this idea of over-complexity with the SB2 comes from. You take your car to a dyno, the tech will tune it specifically to your car, and you go drive the car. It seems it is more about getting the tune dialed in for your car and less about having a "canned" tune for your car. In the end, we all have certain needs and chose the tune that best meets those needs.

One last thing, the guys that are talking about needing a new tune in winter versus summer are just not correct. Colder air simply changes the density per unit volume of the air. That means more oxygen per unit volume. Standalone fueling means that if you tune the car in the summer to add x fuel, then in the winter when there is more oxygen per unit volume, so it can run lean. Since SB2 seems to be still targeting AFR and not running standalone fueling, the car will add/remove the necessary fuel to maintain your target AFR. There is absolutely no reason you would need to alter your tune from season to season that I see.

[Clap135]

V4 is not a canned tune. With autotuning, timing/boost will go up or down based on conditions. As it should.

As far as jake said it doesnt matter what temperature you run at? Seriously?
The dme has af targets, it will automatically hit those targets not matter what
The standback has boost targets, it will automatically hit those targets no matter what.

HOWEVER
the ecu has timing targets based on feedback, as you know feedback changes based on temperature/conditions/load, so if you tune in 30 degree weather, you will simply knock in 100 degree weather. This will happen no matter what tune/car you are running.