[Litos]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Can you proove to me if the earth is round, Ill be waiting.

Its perfect, everyone knowns the earth is round,

[Clap135]

Ill take that as a no, you can't proove it to me, thanks for playing.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Litos

so sniz and shifterboy, show me some factual data or have the most knowledgable person on this forum show us all where knock is present on the N54. oh, and don't pull up some random graph and start making red circles around timing drops and call them knock.......that is, unless you have 100% evidence of your claim......

it's ok, i'll wait.............while my palm is facing your face.....

ok thats a fair question, but before i give you an answer, can you supply me three things? the only reason i ask for these pre-reqs are to establish YOUR knowledge of basic timing.

1.what are the prime windows of opportunity for maximum timing?

2. how do you balance timing, load and octane to gain the most power from an engine?

3. why are knock system required on current engine technology?

from here we can start a good conversation

cheers!!

[Litos]

wow, two posts in a row with no proof or anything to back up the claim.......

love the show guys - thanks for taking my call, i'll hang up and listen now......

next........

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Litos

wow, two posts in a row with no proof or anything to back up the claim.......

love the show guys - thanks for taking my call, i'll hang up and listen now......

next........

i asked a legitimate question, that if you have the answers to, i will be happy to engage in an informed conversation.

i am not making (creating) hurdles for you to jump over, but ive have observed your past input on this type of issue, and would genuinely like to help you understand what is apparently not clear to you.

if im willing to put down some effort, wont you?

[Litos]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i asked a legitimate question, that if you have the answers to, i will be happy to engage in an informed conversation.

i am not making (creating) hurdles for you to jump over, but ive have observed your past input on this type of issue, and would genuinely like to help you understand what is apparently not clear to you.

if im willing to put down some effort, wont you?

i see how you're tryin to bait me into your question, but it's apparent that you cannot provide evidence of my original claim to begin with.

it doesn't matter what i think and/or know, the real question is "how can you prove that timing drops are knock !?!?"

i wonder what would have happened if i would have asked a hard question......

it's ok if you can't answer it - hell, no one else can either. nobody hates you for not knowing.......

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Litos

i see how you're tryin to bait me into your question, but it's apparent that you cannot provide evidence of my original claim to begin with.

it doesn't matter what i think and/or know, the real question is "how can you prove that timing drops are knock !?!?"

i wonder what would have happened if i would have asked a hard question......

it's ok if you can't answer it - hell, no one else can either. nobody hates you for not knowing.......

Simplest way: Add race gas, drops go away right? Now what does higher octane do again? Oh yea, raises the knock threshold.

[roninsoldier83]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

ok thats a fair question, but before i give you an answer, can you supply me three things? the only reason i ask for these pre-reqs are to establish YOUR knowledge of basic timing.

1.what are the prime windows of opportunity for maximum timing?

2. how do you balance timing, load and octane to gain the most power from an engine?

3. why are knock system required on current engine technology?

from here we can start a good conversation

cheers!!

Buddy, don't waste your time on this one.... he truly has no concept of basic tuning principles, and judging by his posts on the subject, he truly seems to have no desire to learn. The guy can't even install a JB4 & DCI's, much less explain engine management tuning techniques, as such I'm confident that he's likely never touched a wrench or come close to tuning a car:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488344

Originally Posted by Litos

hey guys, i'm not the most mechanically inclined person in the world, so i'm willing to donate some Hooters and/or tons of beer for someone that is willing to install my JB4 and DCI's.

we can meet tonight or anytime after 10:30AM tomorrow

[OpenFlash]

Some of you guys have patience... God bless ya.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by roninsoldier83

Buddy, don't waste your time on this one.... he truly has no concept of basic tuning principles, and judging by his posts on the subject, he truly seems to have no desire to learn. The guy can't even install a JB4 & DCI's, much less explain engine management tuning techniques, as such I'm confident that he's likely never touched a wrench or come close to tuning a car:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488344

i think youre right

i was hoping if he thought some of those q's out, it be easier to show the logic, not the hype. he asked for info.. but looks like hes beyond my

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Litos

i see how you're tryin to bait me into your question, but it's apparent that you cannot provide evidence of my original claim to begin with.

it doesn't matter what i think and/or know, the real question is "how can you prove that timing drops are knock !?!?"

i wonder what would have happened if i would have asked a hard question......

it's ok if you can't answer it - hell, no one else can either. nobody hates you for not knowing.......

it does matter what you think .. because if you have the wrong concept ingrained in your head (know as "mindset") then no objective proof can be offered to you without prejudgement.

i come to this forum to offer life experiences that could be helpful for those who are willing to examine what i present.. if you wanna run with blinders on .. its ok, doesnt cost me a nickel and doesnt hurt my feelings.. i have been questioned by more knowledgeable people, without taking offense.

btw: its not my claim.. its called engine management principles ....

[djdownfawl]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Some of you guys have patience... God bless ya.

Not me.. lol
I cannot wait to get my PROCEDE and install it and FEEL THE POWER!

A nice guy - Jeff. Helped me out here.

Thanks!!

[branabolic]

How come nobody mentions GIAC anymore. i run GIAC and am pretty happy with it. has anyone done any logs and found there to be any timing drops worth worrying about with GIAC? i forget which value to monitor to log timing with the BT. Plus, i think my laptop has HIV so i hate using it. to bad i cant take my desktop out and datalog.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by branabolic

How come nobody mentions GIAC anymore. i run GIAC and am pretty happy with it. has anyone done any logs and found there to be any timing drops worth worrying about with GIAC? i forget which value to monitor to log timing with the BT. Plus, i think my laptop has HIV so i hate using it. to bad i cant take my desktop out and datalog.

I would guess that one of two things are happening

1. GIAC is not vocal on the boards -- some companies do more research and development, and less public relations -- who knows
2. Nobody is having issues with the software --- sounded pretty solid in the beginning, i have not see many threads regarding the product --

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Giac is a good product but some people find the price point and the fact you cant resell it being a loss. It also has its limitations depending goals. (User adjustability, upgraded turbos, methanol use, etc).

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Simplest way: Add race gas, drops go away right? Now what does higher octane do again? Oh yea, raises the knock threshold.

but these "timing drops" still produce power......timing is "pulled", but the car still boosts the same and the graph is undetered.....

are you telling me that "knock" also produces power !??!

also, if there are "multiple" timing drops or knock present in a series of graphs/logs over the course of an hour (tuning/logging session), how can the intense rise in cylinder pressure and hot pistons not be damaged during "knock" !?!?

[Beemw335]

Originally Posted by Litos

how can the intense rise in cylinder pressure and hot pistons not be damaged during "knock" !?!?

Who said they arent getting damaged?

[ianthegreat]

Knock or no knock, I'm 50k+ tuned without a single issue... if there were significant knock, I(we all) would have had problems long ago. I'll comment back in at 100k. IMO, 100k from this car and I wouldn't care if it keeled... maybe I'm wasteful, eh.

[onesuperboi]

Originally Posted by Litos

but these "timing drops" still produce power......timing is "pulled", but the car still boosts the same and the graph is undetered.....

are you telling me that "knock" also produces power !??!

also, if there are "multiple" timing drops or knock present in a series of graphs/logs over the course of an hour (tuning/logging session), how can the intense rise in cylinder pressure and hot pistons not be damaged during "knock" !?!?

So, what is your definition of knock? I'm a little confused.

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by Beemw335

+1 I think threads like these shouldnt be alowed, theyre completely useless and always cause tuner wars. People need to learn how to do their own research.

I totally disagree. (well except the tuner wars) The threads are confusing and the options are plenty.

I started a thread a while back that got dead and buried very quickly.

It seems like there are 2 types of members here on this forum:

1. Hardcore enthusiasts that bolt every possible mod onto their car for more power and understand the dynamics of the intricate workings of each of those mods

2. Normal folks that just want a little more "umph"


The problem is that for the "normal folks" that just want to unleash a bit more power are confused with COUNTLESS threads of which is better, what is newer, which dyno numbers are better, which runs better with DPs, which is better with Meth, etc. This is enough to make a normal person's head spin.


The options that BMW and Dinan have offer great warranty but sacrifice a higher price per horsepower/torque. Many of us are willing to pay that price, others are not.


I was told get a DP, tune, meth, yada yada yada. What does that mean? What does that do? Certainly I read up on those things and understand now.

People told me to get Catless DPs first as a great first mod, but from what I read your car will stink since you no longer have the catalytic converter, and in many states it will not pass emissions. Who want's to deal with that? What kind of advice is that to us "regular" folk? That it's the cheapest way to unleash 30hp? That's not a good enough answer.



So I think these questions are really appropriate. The question of: what makes sense for me, I know nothing? To tell someone to search and sort through this info is confusing. To use the fact that there are tons of threads on this as defense to stop posting them is silly. How many stupid threads do I see of people putting "teasers" of the ugly rims they just bought? The same hundreds.


So help us out, and spend the time to explain stuff here. If you're going to waste your time posting anything at all, at least provide something useful. Everyone wants to come by and play their own thread police and it's just not helpful at all.
And by no means is this directed at you Beemw335, it's a generalization of the stigma that has been created against people that are asking for help with their tuning and performance mods.


So when someone asks for help with their choices of tunes, help them out.

For me, what info am I looking for:

1. Reliability - which product has provided the most reliable outcome without damaging motor, drivetrain, or warranty.

2. Power - which product provides the best overall useful power

3. Support - which vendor stands by their product no questions asked, and responds to questions, emails, phone calls, etc

4. Other options - What are the alternatives. Is there an alternate to the tune at the same price point to give you good results.


Then again, posters need to be more specific too. They have to say:

"What's the best way for me to improve my acceleration from 0-60 by adding mods that are easy for the driver to install themselves, has a good cost/benefit, is reliable, and won't break my car with routine use. Not looking to put my car on the track, just looking for reasonable gains for overall daily driving".


The last question is what is the cost benefit of these piggyback systems? The options spread from $250 - near $1000. Then you also need to spend $100-200 on cables to "read" your car for codes if needed and clear them. So if you're already spending $350 minimum, are you paying for cheap horsepower with headaches - or are you paying for a quality product that won't give you any problems and won't damage your vehicle?

I'd hate to spend $350 for a JB+ and a BT tool for a bit more horsepower and end up with a headache in the end because I forgot to clear a tuning code and my dealer says my warranty is void when I need it. Is that a risk that's worth taking? I mean it seems so since so many people here use these products.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

^ Great Post.

There is a lot that goes into choosing a tune other then Price and Power (as well as any other mods).

Plenty of pros and cons and other things to consider.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by onesuperboi

So, what is your definition of knock? I'm a little confused.

that's what i'm trying to figure out.

there has been factual evidence that "timing drops" still hold solid power throughout the pulls in every gear.......

does knock also hold power, or is there so much damage from "knock" that you will clearly see a drop in power (or an explosion on the dyno/street) !?!?