[SQUeeKY CLeeN]

Originally Posted by CEA 3

Like I said before, go buy a PT Looser or a Minivan and drive carefully!

PT Looser.....friggin hilarious!

[M4TW]

On a different tact - how much would a gap warranteed PROcede cost? By a gap waranty, I mean one that will step in and pay for what BMW refuses to because there's been a MOD. Could such a warrantee be bought by Shiv third party for his mod and the premiums added to the purchase price?

Just use some imaginary data. Say Shiv sells 2000 units a year and the risk is that every two years he will be called upon to pay one $10,000 repair (i.e 1 in 4000) To break even insurance should cost $100 per unit. The interesting part is that the insurance could be optional in this scenario because the odds of a $10,000 payout are still 1 in 4000. Add a decent rake and the gap warrantor could make a tidy profit.

[fragadellic]

Originally Posted by CoralRedPlz

i guess there is alot of fools hanging around this forum.

i love how people assume that since its bmw, they have some kind of super-secret-all-knowing-computer that can prove that there were any mods to the ECU.
they forget the fact that there are computers and well trained experts (like shiv) that can inspect and test these facts and give us an answer that is correct.

that answer is no, bmw does not currently have any type of software that can detect a procede that has been uninstalled.

its like those people who always assume that the USA is doing the right thing, bc 'we are the greatest country in the world'.

all logic and reason seems to fly out the window in some of these threads.

+1 You got *that* right.

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by SQUeeKY CLeeN

PT Looser.....friggin hilarious!

Word on PTlooserpost.com is that bimport supercharged his PT cruiser, had his warranty voided, and had to pay almost $500 for a new engine after his top-end blew during a record setting 9s 0-60 run, hince the anti-mod bitterness. I personally like member "B-Rad ///PWNS U, Maliboo!" more than bimport, and that's akin to saying that dog-shit smells better than dead fish.

[sstarch1]

Originally Posted by B-Rad ///PWNS U, Maliboo!

You haters be trippin. Haha, dat dead fish smell be commin from you moms who be trickin in back of her PT 2 help pay you 335 lease. Naw, now I be hatin like you e90hos. Yall be trippin on all us pimps that aint roll like U, white-&-nerdy style, actin all gangsta wit you qwerty-gats. Haha. Yall be jumpin on the pile wit the true pimps at the bottom, but it be funny 2 watch how much fun you have beatin up on us minority playas on a forum like it was real an you girl be watchin. Haha, you hate be funny.

You ho's need 2 rekanize that 2 be a PROcede playa, U needs to come correct an stop cryin bout you warranty like you aint no trick just cuz you be denyin you ways 2 the deala.

Is this like an on-line version of "Borat".

I persoanlly find it hilarious.

Keep up the haitin' and what not...

[pearlwhites]

Originally Posted by edgarj

Word on PTlooserpost.com is that bimport supercharged his PT cruiser, had his warranty voided, and had to pay almost $500 for a new engine after his top-end blew during a record setting 9s 0-60 run, hince the anti-mod bitterness. I personally like member "B-Rad ///PWNS U, Maliboo!" more than bimport, and that's akin to saying that dog-shit smells better than dead fish.

too funny

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

On a different tact - how much would a gap warranteed PROcede cost? By a gap waranty, I mean one that will step in and pay for what BMW refuses to because there's been a MOD. Could such a warrantee be bought by Shiv third party for his mod and the premiums added to the purchase price?

Just use some imaginary data. Say Shiv sells 2000 units a year and the risk is that every two years he will be called upon to pay one $10,000 repair (i.e 1 in 4000) To break even insurance should cost $100 per unit. The interesting part is that the insurance could be optional in this scenario because the odds of a $10,000 payout are still 1 in 4000. Add a decent rake and the gap warrantor could make a tidy profit.

NICE POINT . Something to think about for sure........I would DEFINITELY spend an extra $100 or even $200 for gap insurance covering me. WORTH EVERY CENT!!!!

[ganeil]

I do not want to involve myself in another of these threads so read this:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=239

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

On a different tact - how much would a gap warranteed PROcede cost? By a gap waranty, I mean one that will step in and pay for what BMW refuses to because there's been a MOD. Could such a warrantee be bought by Shiv third party for his mod and the premiums added to the purchase price?

Just use some imaginary data. Say Shiv sells 2000 units a year and the risk is that every two years he will be called upon to pay one $10,000 repair (i.e 1 in 4000) To break even insurance should cost $100 per unit. The interesting part is that the insurance could be optional in this scenario because the odds of a $10,000 payout are still 1 in 4000. Add a decent rake and the gap warrantor could make a tidy profit.

It's impossible to guess at the risk, what if it were 50 out of 4000 that failed?

[ATG]

Originally Posted by ganeil

I do not want to involve myself in another of these threads so read this:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=239

Also, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Especially, these two excerpts:

"Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty."

"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."

[MacAttack]

[Dominican335]

Originally Posted by B-Rad ///PWNS U, Maliboo!

You haters be trippin. Haha, dat dead fish smell be commin from you moms who be trickin in back of her PT 2 help pay you 335 lease. Naw, now I be hatin like you e90hos. Yall be trippin on all us pimps that aint roll like U, white-&-nerdy style, actin all gangsta wit you qwerty-gats. Haha. Yall be jumpin on the pile wit the true pimps at the bottom, but it be funny 2 watch how much fun you have beatin up on us minority playas on a forum like it was real an you girl be watchin. Haha, you hate be funny.

You ho's need 2 rekanize that 2 be a PROcede playa, U needs to come correct an stop cryin bout you warranty like you aint no trick just cuz you be denyin you ways 2 the deala.

"qwerty-gats".. Amazing!! B-Rad for president!! Stay up playa!!

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by ATG

"The federal minimum standards for full warranties..."

Of course the BMW warranty is limited.

[ATG]

So, are you saying that the Magnuson-Moss Act does not apply to limited warranties?

[ATG]

Ganeil, I am not sure what is your mission here, but let me ask you this:

Certain monetary considerations aside, as a lawyer, would you decide not to represent a BMW owner in a warranty claim just because his/her car has aftermarket parts installed? If the law was so black and white as you are suggesting, this country would not need lawyers at all and would not have such a complicated and well-developed legal system.

We are a community of car enthusiasts who sometimes enjoy aftermarket parts because we like to experiment and because performance cars are our passion. Instead of trying to help your fellow forum members in complex sitations involving legal matters you chose to resort to "morals" that have no application in the technical world. That's not a good service to this community.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by ATG

Ganeil, I am not sure what is your mission here, but let me ask you this:

Certain monetary considerations aside, as a lawyer, would you decide not to represent a BMW owner in a warranty claim just because his/her car has aftermarket parts installed? If the law was so black and white as you are suggesting, this country would not need lawyers at all and would not have such a complicated and well-developed legal system.

We are a community of car enthusiasts who sometimes enjoy aftermarket parts because we like to experiment and because performance cars are our passion. Instead of trying to help your fellow forum members in complex sitations involving legal matters you chose to resort to "morals" that have no application in the technical world. That's not a good service to this community.

My point was to correct the misperception that seems very common on this forum that the Magnuson-Moss Act provides some sort of magic protective cover to those who modify their cars. The law is complicated, that is why I initially entered this discussion. Take a look through this forum and tell me that there are not people implying to others that this law is simple and unless BMW can trace your specific failure to your specific modification, you are safe. My point was to warn people that it is not that simple. As jaworthy pointed out, the manufacturer has to make a logical and reasonable relationship between the modification and the failure and then it is up to you to prove them wrong.

I would gladly represent someone who modified their car in a warranty claim, as long as he was honest about it. I would never represent a client who lied about his modifications to me, the court, or the manufacturer.

As for your claim that morals have no place in the enthusiasts world, I am glad then that "Raider" has just told me I am not an enthusiast.

[ATG]

I think it's the time to end this feud because it seems that you and I actually agree on the main point but approach it from different prospectives. And I agree that people should not lie about modifications. That is unacceptable. When I mentioned "morals," I used it in a sense that it occurred to me that your opinion was that modifying a car and then submitting a warranty claim was immoral per se. I guess my perception was wrong.

[ganeil]

Agreed

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Doccommando

It's very possible that the ECU remains blind to the Procede.

Either way, if you mod you have to be prepared for the worst.

Agree. Imagine if there would be an undocumented second boost sensor input on the ECU, just used for logging the real boost. In fact, I don't expect that. But it would be that simple ( and cheap as well ).

Here in Europe we have insurance companies who pay in the case that BMW denies warranty due to engine mod's. I insuranced my previous BMW's ECU flashes, but don't have experience how the insurance company behaves when they have to pay. I never had an issue. I have to find out if they would cover the PROcede, when I get it. And if they would like to insure customers in the US as well.

The issue for some of you would be that the mod's have to be street legal. For Switzerland this would mean max. 20% hp and max. 20% torque increase ( this would be just a question of an available, corresponding map ) and passing the exhaust sniffing test. No cutout of cat's, no turboback exhaust, no custom exhaust. But still some options, e.g. the SS mufflers, if they are street legal. Or a free-flowing resonator, if somebody would make one.

Cheers
Eugen

[astris]

Originally Posted by eugen.niederreiter

The issue for some of you would be that the mod's have to be street legal. For Switzerland this would mean max. 20% hp and max. 20% torque increase ( this would be just a question of an available, corresponding map ) and passing the exhaust sniffing test. No cutout of cat's, no turboback exhaust, no custom exhaust. But still some options, e.g. the SS mufflers, if they are street legal. Or a free-flowing resonator, if somebody would make one.

Cheers
Eugen

Interesting. I was under the impression that Sportec's stuff was considered "street legal" ... and they had produce some serious beasts. Much more than a 20% power increase.

[e.n335]

You are not limited to 20%. But then you have to do additional mod's. Big brake kit's, etc. Costly, you will end up to buy the M3.

[topracer]

I assume, if a Procede 335i die in the middle of the road, it would be scary to tow it to the dealer.