[Syndicategt]

Great I just bought a BSH OCC...guess it's better than nothing at all.

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Those can be had brand new for under $100 if you search deep enough. What we need to do first before we test it is obtain the manufacturer spec sheet and figure out if these will be too much of a restriction. Perhaps this particular model may not work well for us, but there are dozens of other models that might work fine for N54/N55 applications.

I do know for a fact that a lot of VW/AUDI guys are using the Provent 200 oil separators in their cars with great succcess. It requires some ingenious rigging but it works.


EDIT:
So I found more information on those units:

* Includes filter element
* Up to 200 l/min blow-by gas (I think this EASILY outflows the N54 PCV system)
* Integrated pressure regulation for crankcase (This is to eliminate back pressure. We will need to experiment with this setting)
* Tool-free element replacement with protection against incorect insertion
* Suitable for use with open or closed CCV system

Here is the full PDF:
http://republicsales.com/documents/M...ovent%20en.pdf

Just finished the PDF and yes a very interesting read. You are right the Integrated pressure regulator seems to be the only variable that we need to figure out. Because in diesel engines the crankcase pressure can be extreme in some cases hence the need for the regulator to keep the pressure in check. Just doing a search on ALLDATA it talks about how BMW uses a crankcase pressure regulator already so we would have no need for a additional one if BMW already has the pressure set. Maybe we can remove it and plug it. Just bypass the regulator all together? Or gut the regulator.

As for the change interval for the filter element, I did some quick research and it looks like diesel guys change it every 15-30,000 miles which would be ok with me if the filter is only $50.00. Plus they are probably pushing much more l/min of blow by volume than our small N54. So who knows maybe we would only be changing the filter every 50,000 miles. And if the VW/Audi guys are already doing it then that shows it will work. We need to send over some spy's to find out their results. muhahah

[Iwantm3]

I took mine off today and surprisingly there was MAD FOCKING OIL !!!! lol

Had it for very little but pushed a lot testing maps, other mods etc

[RedlineMotorworks]

Originally Posted by Iwantm3

I took mine off today and surprisingly there was MAD FOCKING OIL !!!! lol

Had it for very little but pushed a lot testing maps, other mods etc

Post pictures.

[RedlineMotorworks]

I'm simply stating what I've been taught and what I believe. I do remember you purchased it from Redline but I don't think that should affect my response.

Another thing to keep in mind about the Mann kit you posted is that the cotton filament is designed to work with diesel fuel which is not as corrosive as gasoline. If you were to install this kit on the N54, the gas would eat away at the filament making it completely useless after little use.

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Funny you say this, as I bought the BSH OCC from you.

Oh and yes, I disagree entirely on your claims that no recirculating OCC will be 100% effective. Allow me to demonstrate:

This is the Mann/Hummel Provent 200 seriels oil separator and recirculator. These guys make oil separators like that for heavy duty diesel trucks and commercial fleet vehicles. They are 100% effective. Furthermore, these are actually designed with high-boost applications in mind: think giant ass turbos on the 18-wheelers that generate upwards of 40PSI.

These things are specifically designed not to create back pressure AND capture and separate 100% of all oil fumes. The truck engines these are most found in run for million hours between opening the heads/manifolds/etc.

http://www.cfpfilters.com/store/provent200.html







I proposed this idea almost a year ago, but most people frowned the idea that they had to run their own plumbing and also figure out a way to deal with the captured liquid which in trucks is diverted back to the oil pan.

[Iwantm3]

Originally Posted by RedlineMotorworks

Post pictures.

I should've

[EastBayE90]

ProVent®
- highly efficient oil separator for crankcase ventilation

Applications
For diesel and gas engines with up to approx. 400 l/min blow-by gas (2 units)

Advantages
Highly efficient oil separation providing excellent protection for the turbocharger and other components fitted downstream
Reduced engine oil consumption
Easy servicing
Universally usable through variable adjustment to different flow rates
Extremely flexible
Compact design
Integrated safety function against excessively high crankcase pressure
Low running costs

http://www.mann-hummel.com/industria...=19&v_pid01=44

Says for diesel and gas engines so I think its still ok. Maybe they have different filter options if running a gas engine.

[vasillalov]

Yep! Like I said, the VW/AUDI (and possibly other platforms) guys are using it with great success.

[skim7x]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Yep! Like I said, the VW/AUDI (and possibly other platforms) guys are using it with great success.

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

ProVent®
- highly efficient oil separator for crankcase ventilation

Applications
For diesel and gas engines with up to approx. 400 l/min blow-by gas (2 units)

Advantages
Highly efficient oil separation providing excellent protection for the turbocharger and other components fitted downstream
Reduced engine oil consumption
Easy servicing
Universally usable through variable adjustment to different flow rates
Extremely flexible
Compact design
Integrated safety function against excessively high crankcase pressure
Low running costs

http://www.mann-hummel.com/industria...=19&v_pid01=44

Says for diesel and gas engines so I think its still ok.

^ This is great stuff guys... this is the forward thinking that I love on e90post. I've so far been dissapointed by the apparent lack of thought / design / R&D done for OCC's so far... thank you for doing this (Just threw away my RR OCC yesterday) =P

[bahn stormer]

I didn't see any oil in my BSH OCC until I fully removed it and dumped the oil out. The real problem seems to be the dipstick is too short. Too bad its giving the BSH a bad name. It is a quality product and should support higher flow than most other OCCs I have seen.

[Iwantm3]

Originally Posted by bahn stormer

I didn't see any oil in my BSH OCC until I fully removed it and dumped the oil out. The real problem seems to be the dipstick is too short. Too bad its giving the BSH a bad name. It is a quality product and should support higher flow than most other OCCs I have seen.

100%

[EastBayE90]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4346800

Just got back from a little spy mission over at the VW forums. So yea this guy seems to be running the smaller PRO VENT 200. Everything seems to be plumbed the same way we would run it. He had it on his 1.8T and 2.0T gas engine.

He originally had it venting to atmosphere and noticed the car bogging. He then hooked it up the way it should be as a closed circuit and it was fine after that. He says the filter gets black after a while and he just cleans it by soaking it in gasoline interesting....

He ended up just putting a cap at the bottom where the drain spout was. He said he usually just wipes it out with a paper towel or he can take the cap off and drain it into a cup. It holds a few shot glasses of oil so capping it would be no problem. And if we run the PRO VENT 400 I'm sure there would be more space for oil. He was seeing good results after not many miles of use.

Check out that link it has pictures of it installed it doesn't look bad at all. It looks OEM to me. The more I read into it the more I want to try it out.

[dzenno]

Ok, so here's my 2c on the commercially available OCCs on "this" platform and I'll post this up in the other recent OCC threads we have going This is after reading half the internet available on PCV systems outthere over the past few days lol

PCV systems are designed with vacuum in mind because that vacuum is crucial to the operation of the engine and it also impacts power delivery...crankcase pressure is something that should be considered seriously before playing with today's N54 OCCs, stress the word "seriously" here...if a restrictive OCC is introduced it can lead to both engine (valve stem seals) and turbo (seals) damage...Restrictiveness is introduced by things like the following:

1) Smaller than stock diameter tubing
2) Much much much, ok well about 4-5x, longer than stock PCV tubing
3) 90deg bends at the PCV outlet
4) Baffling used inside the OCCs
5) Irregular maintenance of the OCC
6) Oil buildup in the long tubing leading in/out of the OCC over time

Some of these are addressed by today's commercially available OCCs but some are not and some just can't due to location/placement of the PCV outlet at the back of the engine.

On top of all this there's a topic of venting to atmosphere through a tiny crankcase filter. It is definitely not the way to go as the vacuum serves a crucial purpose of pulling vapours/pressure out of the crankcase. Not doing this has shown real world performance losses (thanks to Hotrod for testing this with a vbox). If you do some google-ing you'll soon realize just how critical it is to have this vacuum in your PCV system.

In summary, my opinion after researching the heck on this topic (and obviously those in the know please comment back) I've come to realize that all of today's popular and commercially available N54 OCCs and their designs are inadequate. What I'd like to have from my OCC designer is the following before putting another OCC on my car:

1) Flow rate out of the stock N54 PCV outlet under boost (positive pressure) and the amount of vacuum pulled when not under boost
2) How the above is changed by introducing their OCC and long tubing under boost and vacuum conditions

This community needs to realize that something as simple as an OCC isn't something that should be taken lightly as a lot of people, including myself, have take it to be. I had run the RR OCC for about 2.5 years now. It leaked all over the place and it didn't collect oil almost at all. It would collect maybe 2mm at the bottom of a can after about 10,000km of mixed hard/regular driving. This isn't something that I'm willing to risk instead of the stock PCV setup. I made a mistake buying the BSH OCC just 2 weeks ago and not researching this topic more thoroughly while relating it to the N54 PCV design. What drives me nuts sometimes is certain vendors totally misrepresenting OCCs to this community with pics of tons of blowby caught by them when its very clearly not the case on the N54. Yes, there's blowby, but NO there's isn't even 2% in vast majority of cases as what they're showing. The pics they show are from the VW/Audi engines that have massive amounts of blowby. I know this first hand as I've personally witnessed a BSH OCC being emptied on a 2010 VW GTI. Its ridiculous on that engine but this just isn't the case here.

I'm going stock PCV setup starting today until a more proper setup addressing the above arrives for the N54...the tiny amount of blowby from the N54 on my car is definitely more welcome than risk of damaged turbo(s) or damaged say valve guide seals..This is especially a concern with guys running high boost occasionally or those with upgraded turbos..

[aus]

But how do you explain the pic's of cars here with gunk all over the intake valves?

.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by aus

But how do you explain the pic's of cars here with gunk all over the intake valves?

.

Don't recall ever saying anything about more/less intake valve carbon buildup above...suggest reading it again..

[WilliamE92]

Still haven't figured out a comfortable way to keep the wool where it should be...

maybe a thin screen mesh slipped over the fitting like a screen condom?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Ok, so here's my 2c on the commercially available OCCs on "this" platform and I'll post this up in the other recent OCC threads we have going This is after reading half the internet available on PCV systems outthere over the past few days lol

PCV systems are designed with vacuum in mind because that vacuum is crucial to the operation of the engine and it also impacts power delivery...crankcase pressure is something that should be considered seriously before playing with today's N54 OCCs, stress the word "seriously" here...if a restrictive OCC is introduced it can lead to both engine (valve stem seals) and turbo (seals) damage...Restrictiveness is introduced by things like the following:

1) Smaller than stock diameter tubing
2) Much much much, ok well about 4-5x, longer than stock PCV tubing
3) 90deg bends at the PCV outlet
4) Baffling used inside the OCCs
5) Irregular maintenance of the OCC
6) Oil buildup in the long tubing leading in/out of the OCC over time

Some of these are addressed by today's commercially available OCCs but some are not and some just can't due to location/placement of the PCV outlet at the back of the engine.

On top of all this there's a topic of venting to atmosphere through a tiny crankcase filter. It is definitely not the way to go as the vacuum serves a crucial purpose of pulling vapours/pressure out of the crankcase. Not doing this has shown real world performance losses (thanks to Hotrod for testing this with a vbox). If you do some google-ing you'll soon realize just how critical it is to have this vacuum in your PCV system.

In summary, my opinion after researching the heck on this topic (and obviously those in the know please comment back) I've come to realize that all of today's popular and commercially available N54 OCCs and their designs are inadequate. What I'd like to have from my OCC designer is the following before putting another OCC on my car:

1) Flow rate out of the stock N54 PCV outlet under boost (positive pressure) and the amount of vacuum pulled when not under boost
2) How the above is changed by introducing their OCC and long tubing under boost and vacuum conditions

This community needs to realize that something as simple as an OCC isn't something that should be taken lightly as a lot of people, including myself, have take it to be. I had run the RR OCC for about 2.5 years now. It leaked all over the place and it didn't collect oil almost at all. It would collect maybe 2mm at the bottom of a can after about 10,000km of mixed hard/regular driving. This isn't something that I'm willing to risk instead of the stock PCV setup. I made a mistake buying the BSH OCC just 2 weeks ago and not researching this topic more thoroughly while relating it to the N54 PCV design. What drives me nuts sometimes is certain vendors totally misrepresenting OCCs to this community with pics of tons of blowby caught by them when its very clearly not the case on the N54. Yes, there's blowby, but NO there's isn't even 2% in vast majority of cases as what they're showing. The pics they show are from the VW/Audi engines that have massive amounts of blowby. I know this first hand as I've personally witnessed a BSH OCC being emptied on a 2010 VW GTI. Its ridiculous on that engine but this just isn't the case here.

I'm going stock PCV setup starting today until a more proper setup addressing the above arrives for the N54...the tiny amount of blowby from the N54 on my car is definitely more welcome than risk of damaged turbo(s) or damaged say valve guide seals..This is especially a concern with guys running high boost occasionally or those with upgraded turbos..

Did you do any testing with the BSH catch can? Are you using aftermarket widebands on each pipe to determine if there is really a legit problem? I value your throughts, so please don't take my statements the wrong way. I am simply saying you are assuming a whole lot with no data whatsoever to support it. I have run 525 rwhp on nitrous for a long time with no issues at this point with the misfires you have seen. If indeed the OCC was the cause then I should see the same problems.

[adistoe82]

Has anybody ever took a look at the RACOR CCV4500. I think it is a good option.

Racor CCV4500-08 Series Crankcase Ventilation Filter Assembly

Max Flow Rate-10 CFM-283LPM
Max Engine Rate-400 HP-298KW
Size-7.5 opening widthx9.3Hx5.6D

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Did you do any testing with the BSH catch can? Are you using aftermarket widebands on each pipe to determine if there is really a legit problem? I value your throughts, so please don't take my statements the wrong way. I am simply saying you are assuming a whole lot with no data whatsoever to support it. I have run 525 rwhp on nitrous for a long time with no issues at this point with the misfires you have seen. If indeed the OCC was the cause then I should see the same problems.

Former, you're asking questions and I'm pretty sure you know the answers to them. I said I just got the BSH OCC. I also said this isn't related to any specific OCC brand but a general issue with OCC setups given engine bay clearance in the back of the N54s...I get this strange feeling you're defending current OCC setups and I really don't get it!

Misfires were related to the tune, not OCC...AFR imbalance I was seeing WAS related to a restrictive RR OCC as it went away immediately after I removed the RR OCC...

Here's some info straight from fluid dynamic on impact of longer tubing, same diameter:

In terms of air flow through a tube and a changing length here's a GREAT reference:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/eng99525.htm

If you go through it you'll easily see that length of tube directly impacts air flow and resistence and does so significantly...

In our case, tube is being extended from about say 5 inches to say 5-6 feet so about 15 times longer than stock. On top of that add the immediate bends at the PCV outlet and you'll quickly see where I'm coming from here...and then what about the baffle inside the can and details on flow there and how that impacts much needed vacuum coming from the other side (rear intake tube)

You keep mentioning 525whp and nitrous and running it for a long time and I know you're not putting milage on that car or racing it for extended periods of time as you've said this yourself. That sort of feedback on this topic is really inappropriate..

[cstmx_ryder]

I have the BSH OCC as well, so what you're saying is that the length of the tube affects the performance of the OCC?

I kinda get what that article was saying. It basically states that with a short tube, with all else equal, will have a better flow than that of a longer tube, no?

Just like using a short straw to drink from versus a longer straw. With the short straw, you would not need as much force to suck the liquid/air through versus the longer straw. So with the longer straw, to get the same flow rate, the suction needs to be more in order to have the same volume being moved through the straw? Am I on the right track or totally off? LOL

TIA

Originally Posted by dzenno

Former, you're asking questions and I'm pretty sure you know the answers to them. I said I just got the BSH OCC. I also said this isn't related to any specific OCC brand but a general issue with OCC setups given engine bay clearance in the back of the N54s...I get this strange feeling you're defending current OCC setups and I really don't get it!

Misfires were related to the tune, not OCC...AFR imbalance I was seeing WAS related to a restrictive RR OCC as it went away immediately after I removed the RR OCC...

Here's some info straight from fluid dynamic on impact of longer tubing, same diameter:

In terms of air flow through a tube and a changing length here's a GREAT reference:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/eng99525.htm

If you go through it you'll easily see that length of tube directly impacts air flow and resistence and does so significantly...

In our case, tube is being extended from about say 5 inches to say 5-6 feet so about 15 times longer than stock. On top of that add the immediate bends at the PCV outlet and you'll quickly see where I'm coming from here...and then what about the baffle inside the can and details on flow there and how that impacts much needed vacuum coming from the other side (rear intake tube)

You keep mentioning 525whp and nitrous and running it for a long time and I know you're not putting milage on that car or racing it for extended periods of time as you've said this yourself. That sort of feedback on this topic is really inappropriate..

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

I have the BSH OCC as well, so what you're saying is that the length of the tube affects the performance of the OCC?

I kinda get what that article was saying. It basically states that with a short tube, with all else equal, will have a better flow than that of a longer tube, no?

TIA

Yes and yes

[cstmx_ryder]

But compared too let's say the AR OCC, the BSH OCC has a shorter tube because it sits closer to the firewall on the passenger side. Compared to some AR OCC where they route the tube all the way to the front of the car on the driver side.....

So based on that theory, with all else being equal, the AR ones should be less efficient than the BSH ones?

So then the heat that's accumulated on the BSH OCC being that it sits right above where the turbos are, shouldn't be a factor? At least it should be negligible?

So basically, the length of the tube is the culprit and not necessarily the baffle inside the OCC nor the heat it comes in contact with?

Originally Posted by dzenno

Yes and yes