[Adham]

Originally Posted by urnuts

If you've never driven on a track, it will amaze you what a crappy car you have- with a few exceptions- an Elise perhaps, maybe a Boxster or the like.
I've done some track driving (not real racing) in my M3 (1998), VW GTI 16v (1987) and my 300ZX Twin Turbo; Watkins Glen, NHIS, Lime Rock.
Without getting into details- the one thing that never ceased to amaze me is how quickly you come to realize how really poor your car's braking, handling, etc is on a track.... after thinking it was great.
Think you've got "great brakes"- slotted this, carbon that, cross-drilled here, s/s lines, etc.... yeah, they'll be on FIRE in 5 hot laps. Naturally, there are exceptions, but if you haven't dropped big bucks or real track-ready brakes, you're just a poser.
Handling, same thing. You can play Andretti in the canyons all day long- wait until you hit Big Bend at Lime Rock... and you are in the weeds.
I tell people (not that I know much, btw) how rough and humiliating 5 hot laps are on a track- people pull into the pits realizing the incredible limitations of their cars; thinking they were driving super high-performance cars. Maybe they were- but ONLY for the street.
The men and boys are quickly separated!
M3 was pretty good- 300Z was a fat cow and acted like the fat 4500lb pig she was- brakes MELTED! GTI was pretty good, too. Lots of fun, but slow in the straights.

Uh, 5 hot laps will not set anybodys brakes on fire. "men and boys are quickly seperated?" what is this? the marines? give me a break. And pads make a significant difference in braking performance on the track. i bet youre the guy at the track who does nothing but complain about what his car ... yeah ... that's you alright.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Adham

It happens more often than you think. Ive rolled one, and i was driving well within my capabilities.

I have spun a bunch...but never rolled. Nothing like spinning at 90 mph in your street car...(ended up buying a dedicated track car after that). I have seen a number of rolls...an Audi TT rolled in the chicanes (turn 8 and 8a at Sears Point)...and UrQuattro (original quattro Audi) was upside down in the corkscrew at Laguna Seca as I went thru there...the worst one was on a test day at Thunderhill before a race..when two racers collided at high speed at about a 45 degree angle...they both didnt make it. I have film of a Spec Miata taking out another Spec Miata exiting turn 11 at Laguna...banging him into the wall hard...I stayed away from him the rest of the race..I wonder why?

[Adham]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I have spun a bunch...but never rolled. Nothing like spinning at 90 mph in your street car...(ended up buying a dedicated track car after that). I have seen a number of rolls...an Audi TT rolled in the chicanes (turn 8 and 8a at Sears Point)...and UrQuattro (original quattro Audi) was upside down in the corkscrew at Laguna Seca as I went thru there...the worst one was on a test day at Thunderhill before a race..when two racers collided at high speed at about a 45 degree angle...they both didnt make it. I have film of a Spec Miata taking out another Spec Miata exiting turn 11 at Laguna...banging him into the wall hard...I stayed away from him the rest of the race..I wonder why?

I was in my street car, on street tires, and probably could have caught it if id had some more seat time. It was a crazy one, my tires were giving me all sorts of feedback and warning the whole day, then BOOM im sideways. Funny thing was, it was the first and only time ive ever gone off track. hows that for luck? well, i guess you could say im lucky, i did at least 6 full rotations before the corner worker lost me in the dust ... and i didnt have a scratch or bruise on me.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Adham

I was in my street car, on street tires, and probably could have caught it if id had some more seat time. It was a crazy one, my tires were giving me all sorts of feedback and warning the whole day, then BOOM im sideways. Funny thing was, it was the first and only time ive ever gone off track. hows that for luck? well, i guess you could say im lucky, i did at least 6 full rotations before the corner worker lost me in the dust ... and i didnt have a scratch or bruise on me.

I have gone off track lots of times...in races..and even instructing..(black flag...black flag..."instructors arent allow the luxury of going even two wheels off Steve"). I have had tire go all the way up to 65 lbs due to heat...oops...put Stoptech brake pads in backwards...(in a hurry..in between sessions..quick..change pads..NOT)...and almost pass out changing tires at the end of the day in the paddock due to 110 degree heat (no shade)...I have had my fair share of track experiences..that is for sure.

[Adham]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I have gone off track lots of times...in races..and even instructing..(black flag...black flag..."instructors arent allow the luxury of going even two wheels off Steve"). I have had tire go all the way up to 65 lbs due to heat...oops...put Stoptech brake pads in backwards...(in a hurry..in between sessions..quick..change pads..NOT)...and almost pass out changing tires at the end of the day in the paddock due to 110 degree heat (no shade)...I have had my fair share of track experiences..that is for sure.

Stoptech pads in backwards? :rocks: Thats a good one! What happened?

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Adham

Stoptech pads in backwards? :rocks: Thats a good one! What happened?

Teaching for NASA at Infineon...(Sears Point) and didnt have a chance to change to Pagid Orange before the event..went out in Group 4 with 55 other cars (on a 2.3 mile track..55 cars is real fun...NOT). Anyway, brake performance is terrible and I remember that I didnt install the Pagid pads...so then I instruct for my session...and come back to the car and change the pads. I go out next session and take it easy the first couple of laps letting a ton of people pass (remember Group 4 with NASA is pass anywhere..anytime..without signal). Anyway, find a friend of mine in a modified E36 M3 and try to not let him pass..go into turn 7 at Sears and under hard braking the car veers nastily into the wall...whoops...thats not good...get down to turn 11..hairpin..and it does the same thing...I think it is tie rod..or something..but then as I drive..I rule that out.. Do this another three times..and say..something is definitely wrong..and pull into the pits...wait until my next break..and take off the right front wheel to see that the pad is in backward...Great Steve..good work...lucky you didnt kill yourself out there. Learned a lesson that day.

[Adham]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Teaching for NASA at Infineon...(Sears Point) and didnt have a chance to change to Pagid Orange before the event..went out in Group 4 with 55 other cars (on a 2.3 mile track..55 cars is real fun...NOT). Anyway, brake performance is terrible and I remember that I didnt install the Pagid pads...so then I instruct for my session...and come back to the car and change the pads. I go out next session and take it easy the first couple of laps letting a ton of people pass (remember Group 4 with NASA is pass anywhere..anytime..without signal). Anyway, find a friend of mine in a modified E36 M3 and try to not let him pass..go into turn 7 at Sears and under hard braking the car veers nastily into the wall...whoops...thats not good...get down to turn 11..hairpin..and it does the same thing...I think it is tie rod..or something..but then as I drive..I rule that out.. Do this another three times..and say..something is definitely wrong..and pull into the pits...wait until my next break..and take off the right front wheel to see that the pad is in backward...Great Steve..good work...lucky you didnt kill yourself out there. Learned a lesson that day.

Haha makes for a good story now tho.

[sdiver68]

Street cars I've tracked:

Ford Probe GT
Acura Integra Sedan
Porsche 928GT
BMW 330i

Yes, I think my 335i will do just fine.

Put it this way, if you don't know the answer to your original question, you won't drive it hard enough to discover the subtle differences. With experience comes safe speed. With speed comes deficiencies. With knowledge of both, you don't need someone else to answer your question.

[bmargolis]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55072

[bmargolis]

Originally Posted by urnuts

If you've never driven on a track, it will amaze you what a crappy car you have- with a few exceptions- an Elise perhaps, maybe a Boxster or the like.
I've done some track driving (not real racing) in my M3 (1998), VW GTI 16v (1987) and my 300ZX Twin Turbo; Watkins Glen, NHIS, Lime Rock.
Without getting into details- the one thing that never ceased to amaze me is how quickly you come to realize how really poor your car's braking, handling, etc is on a track.... after thinking it was great.
Think you've got "great brakes"- slotted this, carbon that, cross-drilled here, s/s lines, etc.... yeah, they'll be on FIRE in 5 hot laps. Naturally, there are exceptions, but if you haven't dropped big bucks or real track-ready brakes, you're just a poser.
Handling, same thing. You can play Andretti in the canyons all day long- wait until you hit Big Bend at Lime Rock... and you are in the weeds.
I tell people (not that I know much, btw) how rough and humiliating 5 hot laps are on a track- people pull into the pits realizing the incredible limitations of their cars; thinking they were driving super high-performance cars. Maybe they were- but ONLY for the street.
The men and boys are quickly separated!
M3 was pretty good- 300Z was a fat cow and acted like the fat 4500lb pig she was- brakes MELTED! GTI was pretty good, too. Lots of fun, but slow in the straights.

I understand your point, but I think that Bill Auberlin would complain about his race car on the street just as bitterly. No A/C, too stiff, hell no FM radio or room for the groceries.

Most of us are driving our street cars on the track, we know that. Duh.

[CoralRedPlz]

here is a link that shows just how 'track ready' and capable the 335 is: http://bmwblog.net/?p=210

with rft's around the nurburgring it was only 4 secs behind the m3. laps take over 7 minutes, so that is pretty damned impressive i thought.

[rabyrab]

Any car that is stock put on the track will suffer from brake fade and hot temps. For my first time tracking my 2005 S4 I needed a flush and racing or high temp brake fluid and racing pads. I did have more HP than i needed my car had 380 crank HP this was on Big Willow.

[schneid4323]

After actually tracking my 335 with proceed.... I highly suggest a nice set of stiff coilovers, I have the "Sport Package" but they suck. Sway bars and coilovers are next on my list.

Also the type 200 brake fluid is AMAZING compared to stock, make the switch. Its the same color as stock too

[rabyrab]

I would like some but 2 reasons why i won't get the co are 1. it's leased 2. the sports package ride height is low enough to clear parking stations.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by rabyrab

I would like some but 2 reasons why i won't get the co are 1. it's leased 2. the sports package ride height is low enough to clear parking stations.

Leasing has never stopped me from modding a car.

[spacedogg]

Originally Posted by 010101

evo, sti, elise, rx8, 'vette, civic si, 350z, cooper s, gti

Damn...I forgot you can get a vette in the US for almost $40k USD. up here in Canada it's around $70k CDN which works out around $60k USD...

If I tracked more often, I'd probably buy a S2k out of all those cars.

[MDL]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Leasing has never stopped me from modding a car.

What exactly is the deal with modding a leased car? I mean I assume if you aren't gonna buy the car at the end of the lease you have to take off all the mod parts right...I can't really think of any mods that would be permanent.
Do you agree on the mods with the dealer, or just do it and hope they don't find out?

[bemmin335]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60109

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by MDL

What exactly is the deal with modding a leased car? I mean I assume if you aren't gonna buy the car at the end of the lease you have to take off all the mod parts right...I can't really think of any mods that would be permanent.
Do you agree on the mods with the dealer, or just do it and hope they don't find out?

I try to establish a rapport with A service advisor. In the past I had clout with my dealership...for three reasons 1) I am vocal on the forums, 2) I am an editor/moderator/admin on Audiworld.com, and 3) Because I started a local Audi car club in my region. For those reasons..I get special handling. I need to work out a way to do that on the BMW side.

[S4to335]

When I turned in my Audi at the end of the lease term..it still had the center vent boost guage, short shifter, and upgraded diverter valve. No one noticed anything..in fact..they didnt even look at the car when I was there. I try to remove most of my stuff when I turn back in a car..but it comes down to time=money and after awhile the cost of removing it exceeds the price I would get if I sold that piece used. I have had my fair share of discussions with service advisors in the past that tried to blame issues on my modifications..but this had nothing to do with leasing / purchasing..it had more to do with covering the repair under the maintenance/warranty contract.

[bartman32]

Getting back on topic - - -
This car is FANTASTIC on the track! Oh my! I used to take my old stock e46 sadan on the track and it was nice but this thing STICKS, has POWER and is just AWESOME! I was at Buttonwillow this past weekend and had a TON of fun! There was another instructor who brought his mom's e90 to the track with R componds and told me that this was just as good stock as his modified e46 M3. Now that's saying something!!!! I had SO MUCH FUN!!!!! Oh, and the oil temp issue. Yes it does get hot but it never went into limp mode and to be honest I wasn't too afraid it would. The needle did certainly move and it did go up but it never gave any signs of not being able to handle it!
What a GREAT car!!!

[S4to335]

Well..I would like it to turn better..mine had nasty understeer. I have the coilovers on now...the exhaust..and the quaife goes in shortly...now I just need some light track wheels, an alignment, and some r compounds..and I am set to retry. :-)